I have a difficult time understanding this hexagram. To me it means close to nothing.
Hexagram 29 I get ... very clear I can see it in my mind and I can recognize it's qualities... but 30 seems very much more difficult to understand, perhaps because fire is less substantial than water?

Allot of the things in the Yijing are just so alien to western cultural paradigms and even occultism.

First I see the trigram of fire. Then I read "The Clinging".
I just don't get that idea in terms of fire. Clinging?
I get the idea that fire needs fuel to burn.

"man clings to what is right and can shape the world"

Perhaps a allusion to man holding to God?

But when I look at fire I don't think:

"oh that poor thing, it just needs help"

Light, Vision, Clarity, Purity, summer sun, illumination. I can see this written about Li in the Yijing. I understand these idea...

But then "Care of the cow brings good fortune?"
Cow?

"the cow is the symbol of extreme docility"

Fire is extremely docile? Huh?
That is really not something I would notice about fire.
Cows? Lol I know that methane makes fire. But thats a bit of a strech imho.

Western conceptions of fire are: Male, aggression, destruction, mars, sun, light, god.

I don't see much of this in trigram 30. sun, Light, perhaps.

But then trigram of Li is called: "the middle daughter"

This is inconceivable to me. How can the Yijing name the trigram Li female?
Wilhelm even goes so far as to call hexagram 30 "a feminine hexagram"



So is fire in the Yijing considered feminine? It isn't in chinese medical theory.
Perhaps Wilhelm got a few details wrong in the interpretation?
What does "the middle daughter" mean anyway?
I mean I get it that there is a middle feminine line.

Then you see the judgement talk about Fu Hsi making a net... the only kind of net I see in fire is the shape of the image that a trigram for fire makes. Beyond that I see NO RELATION between fire and a net...

You are puzzled because you aren't look at the hexagram visually.


Dr. Johnson's definition of a net: anything made with interstitial vacuities

Nets and shells cling. I just noticed that vacca is Latin for cow

Actually I did notice that trigram Li does look like a net. But really is that the true reason behind this? Seems a bit puerile. Maybe they picked the cow because cows and fire both eat grass...[?]

Fire is dependent on fuel, so it needs to be "docile" to get it... perhaps adaptable?

However I can expect that if one wants to become enlightened, one must be docile to God. Thus the center yielding line could represent a person who is at their core (or spirit) receptive to the higher consciousness.

Fire must be adaptable in spreading, or it will burn out.

But fire isn't the worlds most controllable and docile phenomenon.

When I think of adaptability however I think of water. Because Bruce Lee talked about how "water can flow or crash" and "becomes the cup" it's put into. But hexagram 29 doesn't really talk about being adaptable. More about repetition and sincerity...

Maybe Bruce Lee is wrong about water being adaptable... maybe fire is the adaptable one?
Docile doesn't quite mean adaptable but it's not far off...

CyclotronMajesty said:

Actually I did notice that trigram Li does look like a net.

Click to expand...

It is an ancient observation:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=10469&page=27

But really is that the true reason behind this?

Click to expand...

To quote the estimable Sakis Totlis: "Truly there is nothing in the text if first there is not some relative visual idea in the related hexagram" (The True Eye of the Tiger, p.47).

Seems a bit puerile.

Click to expand...

Or pareidolic. But you're right. We have lost the ability to look at things simply and originally as children do. "At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes" (Matt 11:25).

CyclotronMajesty said:

Allot of the things in the Yijing are just so alien to western cultural paradigms and even occultism.

Click to expand...

Hi CyclotronMajesty,

Indeed it will create confusion; I would like submit some background information as follows for your reference.

The trigram Li is taken for fire because a blaze is brightness outside and darkness in the middle if we take the blaze of a match as an example. Yin in Chinese cultures is also signified as darkness (under a shade), while Yang is brightness (under the sunshine).
The feminine line in the middle clinging to two masculine lines is specified as the character of the trigram Li, to cling, which is one of the characters of fire as fire has to cling to the combustible in order to burn. On the other hand the trigram Kan is regarded as one masculine line trapped in tow feminine lines; therefore it is the perilous abyss. In Chinese cultures, Yang is also taken for a symbol of solidity (something is visible under the sunshine; therefore we can feel its existence) and (the aboveboard behavior of) a gentleman, etc. while is emptiness and (the wicked behavior of) a villain, etc.. In the I Ching Yin and Yang are two symbols of darkness and brightness in the sky, while they are applied to those which are available on the earth, they represent two different subjects at each end, like the female and the male.

In Xi Ci Zhuan, it is said that because of the image of the trigram Li, people invented the net for trapping and fishing; therefore the trigram Li is taken for the net.
The hexagram originally existed without any name or texts, and people paraphrase the oracle of a hexagram according to its presenting images related to the subject of their question.
Also for your information: according to Shuo Gua, the trigram Li additionally represents the sun, lightning, the armor and the weapon, the eye, the big belly, the pleasant, the tortoise, the crab, the spiral shell, and the clam, and a hollow tree with its upper part withered.

The trigram Li is regarded as the middle daughter because it is the 2nd mate of the trigram Kun and Qian, i.e. a feminine line of the trigram Kun enters into the trigram Qian and occupies the 2nd position, which is designated according to the principle: the timeline starts from the bottom to the top.

The trigram Li is a feminine trigram because it possesses even line strokes (according to the principle: Yang is odd, while Yin is even).
In Xi Ci Zhuan, it is said: The masculine trigram (Zhen, Kan and Gen) is one king (i.e. one masculine line) with two subjects, which is the norm of a gentleman. The feminine trigram (Xun, Li and Dui) is two kings with one subject, which is the norm of a villain. Other than the abovementioned moral teachings, I personally can’t see what the affect is after a hexagram is formed. As of the masculine and the feminine hexagram, I have no comment.

I will come back with more explanations of the hexagram Li.

Regards
Tuck :bows:
www.iching123.com

If you check into the dictionary, you might find out that the significance of 離li2, the name of the trigram and the hexagram, is: to leave, to depart from, and to separate from, etc.. If you intend to trace back its original meaning, you will find out that it is just a kind of yellow bird in the oldest Chinese dictionary (ShuoWen). How is 離li2 linked up with clinging? It is annotated according to Tuan Zhuan (which is older than ShuoWen), 離li2 is 麗li2, which looks like the horns of two deer 鹿 clinging to each other. So, Li is to cling.

The text of the hexagram Li highlights that humans must cling to what is righteous and nourish the docility (i.e. submissiveness) of the cow, i.e. not only to cling to what is righteous but also be submissive in clinging to it. Therefore it is advantageous (or appropriate) to persist (in righteousness); (which will lead things to) smooth progress. To herd (i.e. to put together, to feed and make them grow stronger) the cow, (which is) auspicious.

The sequence of the I Ching is not a physical evolvement of the hexagram like so called the eight-tomb table but rather a sequence according to the course of Nature (Qian, Kun, Qian and Kun give birth to Zhun ….) and developing according to its philosophy of human life, not systematically but meaningful.

In the times of end Shang and beginning Zhou (when Yi was written), especially Spring and Autumn, as well as the Warring states (when Ten Wings were accomplished), it was a world teeming with battles amongst dukes, and killings amongst monarch and subject, father and son for power and benefit.
Therefore in the I Ching, the changes along its sequence is up and down, and very often a good hexagram possesses many ominous omens, which mainly advise people the uncertainty of human life and how to avoid misfortune and pursue good fortune, and its target or what it can reach at the end of the first volume, 30.6, is freedom from calamity.

Where is the cow? If the trigram Kun is taken as a cow, according to Shuo Gua, there will be no cow, which can be paraphrased as: people know what is right and wrong, but can’t submissively cling to what is right.

What is the enlightenment of the hexagram Li? In my opinion, usually a hexagram possesses multiple concepts, and which can be understood after the texts of six lines are read through together and based on the hexagram text.

I will come back with more explanations of the line.

Regards
Tuck :bows:
www.iching123.com

30 is one of the more difficult gestalts to get. So is understanding its relationship to the simpler idea of the bagua that it doubles. But once you get it all of the little contradictory bits and pieces fit together perfectly. Even the cow makes sense, and it has nothing to do with docility. I think I do a fairly good job of this one in my book. See both 30 and Li in the xiao gua section.

Fire is the symbol of civilization and war. Civilization here doesn’t only refer to the substantial one but also the social civilization, like that which is said in Tuan Zhuan: the sun and moon cling to the sky to brighten the world; the plants cling to the earth to grow brilliantly; repeated brightness clings to righteousness; those cultivate the world to become civilized.

To analyze the line’s performance can facilitate the understanding of its text, for instance, the masculine line at positions 1, 3 and 5, and the feminine line at positions 2, 4 and 6 signify that they are put on a right position to carry out what is assigned, or they can act according what is right or righteous ….. The line at positions 2 and 5, the middle positions of the bottom and the upper trigram, possesses the principle of moderation, or the core position which is available with the dominant power. Lines 1 and 3, lines 2 and 5, as well as lines 3 and 6 are in correlation with each other if they are in different genders, signifying an access is available. Additionally the feminine line here possesses the quality of tenderness (i.e. submissiveness), while the masculine is rigid.

29.6 is put into the jail for three years. 30.2 sees the sun at midday (i.e. it is released from the dark prison) after the line move forward by three steps, wherein human civilization already reaches its peak while 30.1’s steps are still in disorder (i.e. it still needs to learn how to be submissive in clinging to righteousness).
30.2 is the representative line of the hexagram Li, which submissively cling to righteousness with the principle of moderation. It is the sun at midday as the sunset is at 30.3
The sun is going to set at 30.3, wherein the old man laments over that his life will not remain much longer (it at the position for marching to the upper trigram can't submissively cling to what is right to it but is eager for another new beginning); on the other hand he also laments over the short human civilization

People overlook the warning of the footprints left in disorder by an enemy scout at 30.1 (i.e. 30.4 isn’t in correlation with 30.1). A sudden attack at 30.4 like a fire disaster, everything is destroyed (30.4 is neither submissive nor at its right position).
30.5 can do nothing but weeps with a flood of tears (30.5 is submissive; it occupies the core position, the king’s position, but which isn’t right to it).
30.6 launches the punitive war (it is neither submissive nor at its right position to do what is righteous, which are those qualities required for carry out furious war, but it is sustained by 30.5, the king who possesses the principle of moderation) and what it achieves is merely freedom from calamity and the first volume of the I Ching end up with freedom from calamity. After 30.6 changes, the hexagram becomes Feng: a grand and abundant state (55), which is also referred to as a great achievement and merit; this is possibly the advice that the I Ching always intends to deliver, i.e. to first pursue no calamity and then achievements or merits.

Regards
Tuck :bows:
www.iching123.com

I'm sort of baffled why all the confusion... And I can only offer my personal insight. I have been consulting the I Ching since middle school, early 90s...and while many things/insights can be viewed as foreign, alien or confusing, I feel with a little time, throw in some meditation and re-read over the text, after a day or two, the truth or light, will shine through... Today I used my I Ching app and got Hexagram 30...and it made much sense, in regards to my question/concern: what to do in my present relationship, of 3 years, with a disconnected and thoughtless person who has taken my Shine away from me... Hexagram 30 made it clear to me to move on from this relationship, not that it is toxic, but it's not supportive... And it's for me to rekindle that inner fire, within myself, tending to it with proper care and caution, and find like-minded/spirited and hearted people that will contribute supportive fuel/energy to my Brilliance...

The I Ching has always revealed the truth to me, and for my friends, family and stranger I have done readings for...sometimes it is a truth that is hard to accept, but nonetheless..it is a truth that will set one free...that truth sets us free and clears our vision, obscured by life's hurdles...allowing us to reach our truest potential.