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Who to Join Together With? Groups One

ginnie

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Needing to reach out for partnership, I've asked Yi about some of these affiliations:

Group One - a community group in existence for many decades. "Please tell me about the potential of this group to become a vitalizing experience? I received 12.2.6 > 47.

Wait out the stagnation patiently. The top line signifies the overthrow and removal of the condition of distress and obstruction... and there will be joy.

I have always been uncertain about whether or not 12.6 means leaving the situation completely, so I asked about that. I received 38.6 > 54.

38.6, deciding to "let them be" [from the Legge] ...

In this 54 situation, now that I'm an older woman, leaping up to be of assistance means spending the next day recuperating.

My husband is also vitally involved with this local group. Sometimes it seems to me that our mutual commitment to this group is the glue that holds our marriage together. However, he is tired, too, and currently he is ailing.

In a larger sense, hex 54 indicates a situation we did not choose: "You are not the one who has chosen."

Maybe I have to have Group One, even though I have been aware for a long time that my involvement with them is very draining.

More later ...
 
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ginnie

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Join together with whom? 40.5

Group Two is an educational non-profit. Hex 23 unchanging for this organization overall. For a certain meeting there: 40.5 > 47. I don't understand line 40.5.

Dening says it means to free yourself from involvement with those who drag you down. To be your own best friend. But that would leave me just as isolated as I am now.

The leader was disorganized and let the group run over by one hour. I was very tired from that meeting and don't know if I'll go back.

Group One again. For temporarily agreeing to take over a weekly meeting at Group One: 40.1.2.5 > 17.

There is that 40.5 again.

Isn't 17 supposed to be very auspicious as the relating hexagram?

Did you know that some man paid a small fortune to put posters all over the subways and buses announcing that Saturday, May 21, 2011, would be The End of the World? Millions of people saw those posters for weeks, and this injected a lot of apprehension into our densely populated urban environment or into 'the mass mind,' as they say. My only comments on that experience: (1) fortunately or unfortunately, the world did not end last Saturday; and (2) we really did not need any more fear here.

Can anybody help me with 40.5?

Does it mean freeing oneself of the negative influences of all other people? The only way that can be done is by forgiving everybody constantly ... The implication of 40.5 seems to be that there exists no external solution. Does that correspond with your experiences with this line?
 
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gato

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group 1... evil people


40.5 a brilliant and wise person should keep a distance from petty fellows

based on these readings i think you need a group 3
 

ginnie

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40.5 a brilliant and wise person should keep a distance from petty fellows

based on these readings i think you need a group 3

Yes, yes, the need for a group 3 ... absolutely! You are so right.

Are you a Taoist? The Taoists say that 'a brilliant and wise person should keep a distance from petty fellows,' as Alfred Huang writes on line 40.5.

I'm reluctant to designate anyone I know as a 'petty fellow.' I don't like to point fingers at other people, since I can be inconsistent, too ...
 
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chingching

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group one does not seem attractive

group two doesnt seem great right now, I'm drawn in by the 23 uc, no harvest in having a direction to go, are they re-structuring at the moment?

40.5 was just for that one meeting right? I like what gato pointed out, but do you even know any of these people yet? maybe the small person is that little voice inside that doesnt really want to change and get out there. When I read:
Dening says it means to free yourself from involvement with those who drag you down. To be your own best friend. But that would leave me just as isolated as I am now.

I saw it as freeing yourself from yourself and that is how you are your own best friend.

that being said, I'm not feeling much here, I'd agree with gato for that group 3.

however 40 > 17 is good, 17 also showing being of service, and 17 has a nice gentle magnetism about it. I'm currently working with a colleague of mine on a project and I continually question, and 17 keeps coming up, and I feel a comfortable draw towards working with her (which is why i question it as i'm not used to projects working this well.)
 
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ginnie

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Energy Stuff

Group Two can stay in existence by cutting all expenses to the bone. Fortunately, they don't need much income to get by.

I don't make many future commitments anymore ... just a couple of meetings.

I saw it as freeing yourself from yourself and that is how you are your own best friend....However 40 > 17 is good

Well, that's the thing. It's totally a question of where best to show up when I go outside.

Also, Chingching -- and thank you very much for understanding -- it can be that over time we change, our main focus in life changes, and the groups we are part of undergo drastic transformations. Is it wise to maintain our loyalty when a nonprofit can no longer follow through on its own mission statement?

What is the way of release? Release seems to be in the direction of my saying "no" to real energy drainers, to places where I feel conflicted, and to people who don't appreciate my efforts anyway.

I can provide an example of someone who stood up and walked away.

I do wonder, however, whether I ought to talk about this first -- or just do it. After all, I can hardly demonstrate something if nobody knows what I'm doing.
 
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chingching

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Is it wise to maintain our loyalty when a nonprofit can no longer follow through on its own mission statement?

I have had trouble with this in the past myself. And I have been the person who stood up and walked away as well. Sometimes I think I was too idealistic though and holding people up to unrealistic expectations. Anyway thats me, not you.

If what your effort ends up doing is maintaining a status quo only (the meetings outcome is to have another meeting),the draining influence of individuals makes it wasted energy. Good group dynamics propel individual effort creatively and exponentially. It doesnt require everyone to behave the same way but it does require that the mission statement still resonates to each participant, and it sounds like maybe some of them have given up on that.

I was once a part of a not for profit and its leaders complained about everyone elses incompetance the whole time to me.... and so I started thinking they would be complaining about me too, and I was a volunteer. In any case it wasn't pleasant to witness as the complainers actually generated funds for the festival to support themselves and a small group of paid staff...they seemed unappreciative of all the charity and generosity that came their way from sponsors and volunteers etc. I ended up reacting really badly :)blush:) and had a few heated confrontations, a couple of calmer talks and then left. And then after a time wrote to them to explain myself better and what it really was that got to me, and after an exchange they re-structured how they paid staff and used volunteers, and I hope stopped complaining. Point is it was at a point of release from the situation that I actually became involved, when I was a part of the festival I was just of service to them, did what they asked and listened to them complain, but didnt really give any input, if that makes sense.

Anyway, that just confirms what gato and yourself have already pointed out about 40.5.
If only the superior man can deliver himself,
It brings good fortune.

Thus he proves to inferior men that he is in earnest.

But in terms of needing to 'know' where to go, who to join with, I always find that if i start getting interested in a particular subject things happen and I end up meeting people and then joining with them. Maybe the question is not who to join with , but how to join (with something exciting). :)
 
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ginnie

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If ... the meetings outcome is to have another meeting,the draining influence of individuals makes it wasted energy.

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head, ChingChing. Holding meetings just to have the meetings continue in the community.

it was at a point of release from the situation that I actually became involved

Yes, I see how that could be.

From what you wrote, I can see that release involves thinking creatively, not thinking about how stuck I am -- and especially not thinking about how stuck they are.

Walking away from misery is something we human beings need to learn, since it is not innate to us. The concept is simple and yet in practice it is difficult to implement, especially since I am already limping, as in hexagram 39.

Does 40 entail abandoning the others? In the I Ching we find the concept of not abandoning the others.

Maybe it just comes down (right now) to knowing when to rest and when to act. And as you said above, ChingChing, not expecting too much; being more realistic. Also, as Gato said, seek a group three.
 
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chingching

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Walking away from misery is something we human beings need to learn, since it is not innate to us. The concept is simple and yet in practice it is difficult to implement, especially since I am already limping, as in hexagram 39.

yes

Does 40 entail abandoning the others? In the I Ching we find the concept of not abandoning the others.

It doesnt feel like abandoning others to me, release/letting go/deliverance. Abandonment is specific to when you have a responsibility to someone/something less capable than yourself, or helpless even like a baby. In your current situation this is not so.

40 is untying knots, a friend of mine described a relationship I once had as being tied with the karmic knot, the faster I tried to run from this person the tighter the knot got and the more pulled back to the negative side of the situation I was. It was only when I stopped trying run, and let go that gradually the knot slipped free. It took a long time. So maybe there is a sense of 'over-time' with 40, but more in the pre-amble to it (which would be 39 as you've mentioned). But the at the point of release (40) there is relief from the pressure, the holding back/holding in. Its a very satisfying feeling when you've got a tight knot undone.
 

ginnie

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Yesterday Yi told me 8.4 > 45.

Union with people far away brought me back to the Internet today. But I'm not sure that's what was meant by 8.4.

Yi had been telling me 13 ... 13 ... and more 13.

I have recently re-connected with two groups more characterized by 13-type relationships, I'm glad to say.
 

bamboo

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I get the distinct feeling that you have outgrown these collaborations and they dont work for you anymore. that comes though in all the readings (to me) .. I see it in 40.5 and i also see it in 54, the disadavantaged position being that you are hungry for group involvement, yet not in step with these people, out of place there.

the 8.4 seems to advise going out beyond the borders of what you have called your groups, seeking newer kinds of involvement. maybe a book club! a cinema circle. a tai chi class. something to enrich you ( newness is enlivening) and not exhaust you!!! thats the pits:hug:
 

ginnie

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It took a long time. So maybe there is a sense of 'over-time' with 40

Thank you, Chingching. I hear you about it really taking some time.

Both these groups are 'legacy groups,' each one founded by a great humanitarian. I can become very committed to helping a foundering organization.

It has taken me a whole lifetime to understand that the one I'm supposed to be helping is myself.

For a lot of us, it is easier to roll up our sleeves and assist others -- We do that automatically.
 

ginnie

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the 8.4 seems to advise going out beyond the borders of what you have called your groups, seeking newer kinds of involvement. maybe a book club! a cinema circle. a tai chi class. something to enrich you ( newness is enlivening) and not exhaust you!!! thats the pits:hug:

Thanks so much, Bamboo!

I was out and about at some meetings lately, in line with what you were saying, and I found that I when I spoke in public, I would blush bright red ... This embarrassing reaction seems to be going away now, thank goodness!

I guess I felt secure when among the old groups and so delayed meeting new people for a long time.
 

bamboo

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ohhhh, that is so cute! blushing is a precious statement, and it seems to be a rare- too rare- phenomenon these days.
"the morel is a very wary mushroom. it hides .. as if to escape the hunter's pluck. like many of nature's most noblest creatures, it is a fugitive kind"
 

gato

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Yes, yes, the need for a group 3 ... absolutely! You are so right.

Are you a Taoist? The Taoists say that 'a brilliant and wise person should keep a distance from petty fellows,' as Alfred Huang writes on line 40.5.

I'm reluctant to designate anyone I know as a 'petty fellow.' I don't like to point fingers at other people, since I can be inconsistent, too ...

sorry i didn't see this ... yes is a quote from Huang but in a hurry i missed the quotes
 

ginnie

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Thank you Bamboo and Gato ...

I would stay a hermit except it's not good for the health to always be inside.

About 'petty fellows,' I suspect that's all of us and there is no other kind.

When Yi speaks of the superior man, I think that is offered as guidance as to how to take the high road in any given situation.

The high road is the one that is also practical, because it leads to fewer troubles later.

Oh, darn it, I forgot what my question was ... The sight of Gato's avatar always has that effect on me!

Anyway, I have to go outside now in order to make my mark on the world ...
 

bamboo

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you can be wary and healthily self-protective and still go out amongst others.

and 'petty fellows'....we may all have our petty moments, but there are certainly times when others have an energy of pettiness/small thinking in comparison to others resonating with higher thoughts and more noble intentions. don't compromise in selecting companions ( the 54 position), it is important to choose wisely.
 

ginnie

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Note on Hexagram 54

don't compromise in selecting companions ( the 54 position), it is important to choose wisely.

Thanks, Bamboo.

Regarding petty fellows: One needs to learn to see beyond all little thoughts. even the thought that other people are "petty." Anybody can get trapped in petty thinking, but all people are grander and greater than that.

I have often observed for example that it's usually the little things in life that drive us up the wall, make us furious, and become "the last straw." It's always some trivial, little detail that makes us lose our cool completely. In that at least, we are all alike.

About hex 54: This is a place where everybody is seen as their role. It is: "I need this thing done, and can you get it done?" I need to fill some subordinate role, otherwise there would be few opportunities indeed for my ever getting outside the apartment.

Often when I inquire about situations, 54 comes up. 54 can also mean that women are in charge, and that I need to take the sensibilities of other women who are senior to myself into account.

But hex 54 unchanging however is never favorable, as far as I understand it.
 
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ginnie

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Abandonment is specific to when you have a responsibility to someone/something less capable than yourself, or helpless even like a baby. In your current situation this is not so.

Well, in fact, it is so. I have responsibilities to a family member who is incapable.
 

bamboo

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But hex 54 unchanging however is never favorable, as far as I understand it.

I don't see this as true. Karcher has called this hexagram "converting the maiden"....the maiden is converted into woman by becoming a second wife. this could represent any transition where one temporarily is under the influence of forces outside of one's control, but there is a purpose to it.

54 describes an uncomfortable process maybe, but not always an unfavorable one. sometimes the childish, carefree and innocent stance needs to mature. sometimes one needs to seemingly settle for less than ideal circumstances that are thrust upon us. But things can flourish from here nonetheless. I would say times of 54 encourage humility and are valuable for that reason.
 

ginnie

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54 unchanging

Bamboo,

I take many of the moving lines in h54 to be favorable, as you said.

But when I see 54 unchanging, with no moving lines, it indicates to me that I am subordinating myself for no good reason.

It is said that h54 means "You are not the one who has chosen." But with no relating hexagram, then I am placing myself second, and nobody else is doing that; I am doing it to myself.

Often there is another way to go at that time, in the same situation, that would be much better for everybody, not just for myself.

After all, when we subordinate ourselves to other people, they don't always appreciate that or even want that. Maybe it could be enlightening to find out how much latitude we really do have or don't have in that situation, before assuming we must play that role.
 

bamboo

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sometimes, in context, it is not wise to subordinate oneself, as in when you asked about the groups you wanted to join......you were hungry for contacts, being hungry sometimes makes us settle for the peanut butter sandwich when we really want a steak.

I didn't think you did draw 54 unchanging in this thread..?

anyway, let's say I needed a job and one was offered to me that was less than ideal......if i drew 54 unchanging, I would probably think to myself that, for now, I probably should take it because I need the money. On the other hand, I could hold out for a better one, thus activating 54.4...or discover that hey, maybe I will really be happy in this dumb old job, happier than I would be in a more "ideal" one...activating line 54.5....
In any case, I don't see it as determining how much latitude one has in 54 unchanging, but in deciding how you want to handle the time when it seems like you don't have much at all. ( ie being hungry or broke puts one at kind of disadvantage)

But I suppose you could be right. the Yi could use 54.0 as a way of pointing out to you that you are putting yourself in an subordinate position:duh: I would personally view it more as the Yi telling me : " Look, you don't have a whole lot of choice right now; what's the best way to keep afloat? "
 

ginnie

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I didn't think you did draw 54 unchanging in this thread..?

You're right! I did not draw 54 unchanging in this thread.

You gave a great summary of 54.

Regarding the lack of a whole lot of choice, I have often gotten 54 as the relating hexagram in questions regarding whether or not to buy a new computer. We don't have much choice, because we must have a computer!

I have also received 54 as the relating hexagram when I was inquiring about an illness, like a cold or a flu. Sometimes when we're sick, we don't have a whole lot of choice!

I once asked Yi about a certain company, and the relating hex was 54. I later learned the company was run by a woman. A woman's household ... When household, hexagram 37, today also signifies corporations and organizations.

To follow up on what happened with me and this thread: I have temporarily stopped being involved with Groups One and Two and am currently getting more involved with Group Three. Now I don't have that sense of being so burdened.

This has been good for me, just as you thought it would be, Bamboo.
 

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