• Jan 3, 2004

• #1

C

cheiron

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Can anyone enlighten me please

Lines 63.3 and 64.4 Make mention that this moment will last for three years.

Anyone know what sort of real or symbolic meaning that this mught come from please?

Thanks

--Kevin

 

• Jan 3, 2004

• #2

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tashiiij

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bradford put in a reply to this on:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk I_Ching_community/messages/48/1181.html?#POST11402

if that does not work, search on his name and look for the thread on 63.

 

• Jan 3, 2004

• #3

C

cheiron

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Tashiiij

Thanks

--Kevin

 

• Jan 3, 2004

• #4

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tashiiij

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yrwelcm!

 

• Jan 3, 2004

• #5

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bradford_h

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Hi Kevin-
Three years is mentioned in seven places-
13.3. 29.6, 47.1, 52.5, 55.6, 63.3 and 64.4.
In four cases it seems to ask the question, "do you Really Really Really want to do this?" with the implication that you don't, in the other three it asks the question with the implication that you do but with the warning that it will mean a serious long term commitment.
I don't know if there was anything in Chinese culture at the time that specifically required three years, like a common sentence for a crime or a standard term of military service.
b

 

• Jan 3, 2004

• #6

C

cheiron

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Hi Brad

Thanks that?s really helpful... Can I trouble you with another question please?

Can you recommend any books, in English, which would increase my understanding of early Chinese history and (esp.) beliefs / culture?

I feel this would help me see more clearly into the Yi Jing.

Thanks

--Kevin

 

• Jan 3, 2004

• #7

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bradford_h

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Hi Kevin-
I'd pass that question to Steve Marshall if he's around these days. Or check out his site.
Fun Yulan's philosophical history doesn't really go back that far, and no one else wants to see the Zhouyi as philosophy.
Both the Kunst and Shaugessey dissertations are good here, and the latter has written a few other books on the subject.
One caveat on this though - beware of using cultural and historical references to narrow the meanings of the Zhouyi too much. The text is still intended to have broad implications and applications. This of course is the personal pet peeve I have with the modernists and context critics.
b

 

• Jan 3, 2004

• #8

C

cheiron

Guest

Hi Brad

I take on board what you say about narrowing meanings...110%

I am sometimes too free with them methinks - chuckles.

I think what I would like to understand better is things like the use of their different alters; their Priests teachings; more of the detail of their folk lore. So that I can start to look at the Yi a little like someone pre-Wang Bi might have...Another perspective.

I shall start with those two refs.

Thanks.

I appreciate you coming back.

--Kevin

 

• Jan 3, 2004

• #9

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bradford_h

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Hi Kevin-
You already know how to find them?
http://www.umi.com/hp/Products/Dissertations
& search simply for Kunst and Shaugnessy.
An Amazon search for Edward Shaugnessy should describe what's in his history books.
Still hoping Steve adds some references to this thread.
b

 

• Jan 3, 2004

• #10

C

cheiron

Guest

Ahh...thanks I was too shy to bother you further.

I found Richard Kunst - Thanks.

For anyone else looking for it: Steve Marshall is hosting it on his site:

http://www.yijing.btinternet.co.uk/links.htm

Thank you very much Stephen... appreciated.

It is late here... time to nip out and grab a beer...

Will check Mr Shaugnessy out tomorrow.

Very gateful for you help.

Cheers

--Kevin

 

• Jan 3, 2004

• #11

cal val

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Brad...

Something in Chinese history about three years? How about three years in the mourning hut? Wasn't three years the traditional mourning time?

And King Wu chose to forego it and step out of the mourning hut at the solar eclipse as it was an omen that it was favorable to march on King Zhou.

I could be wrong about the time of three years, but I'm not going to check myself right now. I have a sick animal to tend to. It's in The Mandate of Heaven if anyone else wants to check.

Love,

Val

 

• Jan 3, 2004

• #12

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bradford_h

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Hi Kevin-
The Kunst link on SJM's site is something entirely different than his dissertation. This is 110mb worth of marginally legible pdf files for very advanced students. Still good to have, especially for individual glosses. But the dissertation is much more accessible and better organized.

Hi Val-
Yes, there was also a three year mourning period.

 

• Jan 24, 2004

• #13

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pam

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Hi all,
There is also something I read long ago in a psych book which explained that when a person truly falls in love with someone, and that relationship ends, or for some reason cannot be brought to fruition, three years is the period of time a person will feel the greatest grief. After that, feelings wane and may still be there forever, but not as intensely. Maybe this is something the ancient Chinese observed (especially in the case of 29.3 when the person in love is already committed to another -- extremely serious entanglement).

I know this is true from personal experience. No fun at all.