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Hex 6 unchanging

iams girl

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Hi, I’m new. My joining has to do with having a couple of readings about seeing “the great man” and I’m hoping this site can be that guidance for me. The first was 7>39 (yearly reading) and recently it was 6 unchanging (a very new and seriously in love interest.)

In Jan., my reading was hex 7 >39 and the question was "What is the best healing path for me and my family in the next year?" My work and home life are big time challenges as can be guessed and a lot rides on my shoulders. Related to seeing “the great man” of hex 39, I felt like I was doing pretty well by including new relationships with older, wiser people in my life. (“The great man” for me has been at different times literally a man or woman, mentor, counselor, or strength drawn from what little wisdom I can muster within.)

Over the last few months, however, I've fallen in love with a monk at a monastery where I’ve been going on a monthly basis for classes and fellowship, a major source of needed strength in my life. I am married and he is a long-time celibate and even though there have been no words or inappropriate action by either of us, there’s no doubt this is head-over-heels in love. I'm concerned about losing my stability. Not wanting to be the dreaded “inferior man” that lets down God/Universe/One/Everyone(!), I did a recast. I’d turned to the I Ching as my “great man” because I feel somewhat at a loss for a true great man in my life and have done my best already to include wiser individuals in my sphere. The monk I'm in love with could be the "great man" to me, but, honestly, how reliable can a man in love be (?) and if I could set things right without talking about it I would prefer it. My question was, “What is my relationship to X”? While I was casting it my heart was saying "Please tell me the absolute truth." and expected the worst (that it’s all my fault and I’m the worst person in the whole world.) I received hex 6 unchanging.

Wanderer’s notes on hex 6 at http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=2560 are wonderful and I am so grateful for them. It gave me hope that I wouldn’t have to completely break ties with the whole monastic family (of men and women) because there’s way more to the community for me in my heart and spiritual life than this one shining star of a man. However, it’s a hard place to be when things are already difficult enough in my life and I’m not 100% confident about getting it right. Since hex 6 brought up seeing “the great man" again, it seemed like it was telling me “I (I Ching) am not your "great man" here; keep looking.” So, I thought I would be brave and join this site. Any wisdom, encouragement, experience, humor, or insight to help me get through this would be appreciated.

A little bit of background, I started using the I Ching every year when I was in my 20’s on advice of a friend. Got awfully tired of "perseverance" over and over, but it grew me up proper and I can look back in gratefulness. Unfortunately, after a unexpected disastrous event, I stopped using it for many years. It wasn't that the I Ching was wrong of course, but it was devastating after working so long and hard to turn my life around and I just felt broken inside like nothing mattered. In 2004, I started using it again and have found support in reading comments on this website in the last few years. Much gratefulness to all.
 

Trojina

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Over the last few months, however, I've fallen in love with a monk at a monastery where I’ve been going on a monthly basis for classes and fellowship, a major source of needed strength in my life. I am married and he is a long-time celibate and even though there have been no words or inappropriate action by either of us, there’s no doubt this is head-over-heels in love.

Ahem...please read this as a stranger would. You are married, hes a celibate monk who has made vows, and you are head over heels in love though neither of you has even spoken about it or acted upon it ?? I'd suggest there is certainly a doubt here... How do you know hes head over heels in love with you. Theres certainly a conflict in the situation here lol...it doesn't bode well does it, married woman and celibate monk

Now forgive me but this made me chortle....are you joking ?



I'm concerned about losing my stability. Not wanting to be the dreaded “inferior man” that lets down God/Universe/One/Everyone(!), I did a recast. I’d turned to the I Ching as my “great man” because I feel somewhat at a loss for a true great man in my life and have done my best already to include wiser individuals in my sphere. The monk I'm in love with could be the "great man" to me, but, honestly, how reliable can a man in love be (?) and if I could set things right without talking about it I would prefer it. My question was, “What is my relationship to X”? While I was casting it my heart was saying "Please tell me the absolute truth." and expected the worst (that it’s all my fault and I’m the worst person in the whole world.) I received hex 6 unchanging.

He may love you...but thats different to being 'in love' with you. You seem to have nothing to go on here...only your yearning for perhaps a more perfect spiritual love. I don't think this is a goer, i think its likely oneof theose projection crush type things on the perfect spiritual male....but meanwhile you have a real husband.


Wanderer’s notes on hex 6 at http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=2560 are wonderful and I am so grateful for them. It gave me hope that I wouldn’t have to completely break ties with the whole monastic family (of men and women) because there’s way more to the community for me in my heart and spiritual life than this one shining star of a man. However, it’s a hard place to be when things are already difficult enough in my life and I’m not 100% confident about getting it right. Since hex 6 brought up seeing “the great man" again, it seemed like it was telling me “I (I Ching) am not your "great man" here; keep looking.” So, I thought I would be brave and join this site. Any wisdom, encouragement, experience, humor, or insight to help me get through this would be appreciated.

The way I see it theres no need at all to break with this group. Accept your infatuation and just carry on with being with the community. Don't let these feelings get in your way. I think hex 6 says that really. You have to compromise. You want to be with the community and these feelings trouble you. I think you have to live with both. You don't know he is in love with you IMO , you can correct me of course. I really don't think hex 6 unchanging is going anywhere fast...but I freely admit I'd think that from your description of the situation with or without the IC


I'm aware my answer may sound dismissive, I'm sorry, I've had my fair share of these type of crushes, and I know they can hurt as much as anything, it just the way you descibed the situation in the first paragraph made it just sound so...hopeless/unreal

There will be other more sensitive responses I'm sure


On the plus side to this terribly insensitive post...I think you can stay in your community, get the support you need there, don't cut yourself off from it becasue your feelings are doing impossible acrobatic somersaults...and also no need to cut yourself off from him. Its good to keep on working through these feelings, to explore the kind of love that is there rather than hurt over the kindof love there isn't.


Sorry for the presumptuous attitude...I could be talking crap but...you know its how it strikes me
over a long term celibate monk


My own policy for impossible crushes with which I am assailed regularly is to keep on talking and relating to the person and being with them till I know them as a real person...when all I want to do is fall in a heap on the floor and admire them.


Heck who am I to say its an impossible crush...I shouldn't but it does look like a psossibility...doesn't it ?

What would you envisage happening between you if he hasn't even told you of his feelings ?
 
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Trojina

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i wait to be slapped for my answer


:hide:
 

iams girl

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Thanks for making my day with your cynicism.
Now forgive me but this made me chortle....are you joking ?
Description of my marriage from 54.2: "Here the situation is that of a girl married to a man who has disappointed her. Man and wife ought to work together like a pair of eyes. Here the girl is left behind in loneliness; the man of her choice either has become unfaithful or has died. But she does not lose the inner light of loyalty. Though the other eye is gone, she maintains her loyalty even in loneliness."
I admit, I'm vulnerable which is not the best place to be.
You seem to have nothing to go on here...only your yearning for perhaps a more perfect spiritual love. I don't think this is a goer
It is too real (pout).
Seriously though, I’ve had enough experiences with “the look” in married men’s eyes right before the line blurs with special touches, gentle words, etc. that follow if not avoided. No question about yearning though. My heart would fly towards a more perfect spiritual love in a millisecond if circumstances were honorable and good. However, I know circumstances aren’t honorable and good and you are right, it’s absolutely not a goer. The conflict is all in my heart, I guess. I like the recent “Wait or Argue” blog about 6: “I don’t have what I want, need and deserve; this is all wrong.” It’s so unfair. Regardless, I know I need to end the conflict, be undivided, and possibly even be the stronger person (ties in with my hex 7 for the year). Otherwise, I’m interpreting the cautionary line at the top of 6 to mean I could be responsible for causing actions that would be regrettable.
What would you envisage happening between you if he hasn't even told you of his feelings ?
Well, an image in one of my dreams about him describes it. You know those paintings with heavenly banners in them? There was an image of a gold and white banner inscribed with “United Forever” on it. Who needs details after that : )? The heart is eternally hopeful for miracles. Ok, immature I know, but you see even my unconscious is not to be trusted at this point. I’m glad you asked that question though, because it made me think of a better question for myself. What would be the worst thing that could happen that worries me the most? The answer is losing the community as a whole. It is an oasis for me and there are many others there that I love very much in the right way. It’s a moderately small community, though, and if one of their members is struggling, the others will know and be affected at some point. I need to overcome my own internal struggle and not ignore the warning signs rather than be humiliated over something that has nowhere to go. Feeling pressured not to visit due to being a negative influence on their community would be the absolute worst.
Its good to keep on working through these feelings, to explore the kind of love that is there rather than hurt over the kindof love there isn't.
I know. In love = pre-disillusionment phase. Grasp for any disillusionment straws. Harder said than done. I'm just tired of being strong about everything, everywhere, all the time. Sigh, will take your advise though to keep talking and relating instead of falling on the floor. Thank you so much for your comments, honestly. Thinking of you chortling at my post next time I’m there will be a very big help.
 

iams girl

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Was able to read more on Hex 6 after coming across the awesome discussion at Exploring Divination>Memorizing threads>Hexagram 6 http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3795

Funny, Trojan, I think my situation may have answered the question in your post on that thread
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3309&page=6

Wilhelm and karcher are quite different in how they see 6,5. Wilhelm sees the good fortune as coming from handing the whole issue over to a wise and independent arbitrator who can be trusted to make the right decision. Karcher sees it more as a pleading ones own case, expecting a positive outcome. Maybe the 64ness is the awaiting of the outcome.

What is the good fortune of contending in 6,5 ? Hmmm you won't win for sure
6.5 lesson for me has been about pulling back one’s self-will (the losing part) resulting in maintaining order (the winning-in-the-end part) thereby bringing good fortune.

The role of contending or pleading one’s case seems to me to be the process of airing out the situation with self/others which provides an opportunity to realign right mind/heart/soul leading to right action.

6.6 lesson for me would be then, that if one doesn't heed 6.5 and pushes too far, an empty win results (instant gratification) which is a true loss (humiliationx3.)

Speaking of pleading one’s case, just a reminder that Wilhelm’s judgment says the seeker in this case “sincere,” not just some "Youthful Folly" person :zzz:. LiSe’s website http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/ even uses the term “brave hero” (heroine :))(thanks, LiSe). It might be considered then, that the seeker might deserve a little more credit up front from the wise and independent arbitrator for extenuating circumstances. Even if, begrudgingly :eek:, said wise and independent arbitrator is ultimately “strong enough to lend weight to the right side.”
 
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sooo

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Since it is correction you seek, and at least one strong man to look up to to provide it, it probably seems very unromantic to reckon, that the great arbitrator is you. Even if you received council with the wisest man in the world, you would still be the ultimate judge of your life.

What makes your heart flutter when you encounter this monk is, he is recognizable in you. He strikes your gong :D. I don't find it unusual in the least that a monk is gifted (or cursed) with a strong libido and the ability to fully love a woman. But he has probably also come to a point of the revisiting conflicts, which are inherent in most cases of celibacy. Just how strict is his celibacy? And why? To what desired end or purpose? Is he escaping the world or more focused on where he is or is headed? Lots of conflicting desires, and fears: most of all, falling short, failing.

The discouraging thing is line 6, because, for me, it's never represented anything but fighting a constant uphill battle. You win, you lose, again and again. And it follows, that as long as you remain in this undecided state, the turmoil of conflict will cloud the air with uncertainty and instability.

The Gong is the decision maker, and that's you. You are your own judge, as he is in his life. The only real question is, could you live with yourselves?
 

Trojina

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Was able to read more on Hex 6 after coming across the awesome discussion at Exploring Divination>Memorizing threads>Hexagram 6 http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3795

Funny, Trojan, I think my situation may have answered the question in your post on that thread
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3309&page=6


6.5 lesson for me has been about pulling back one’s self-will (the losing part) resulting in maintaining order (the winning-in-the-end part) thereby bringing good fortune.

The role of contending or pleading one’s case seems to me to be the process of airing out the situation with self/others which provides an opportunity to realign right mind/heart/soul leading to right action.

6.6 lesson for me would be then, that if one doesn't heed 6.5 and pushes too far, an empty win results (instant gratification) which is a true loss (humiliationx3.)

Speaking of pleading one’s case, just a reminder that Wilhelm’s judgment says the seeker in this case “sincere,” not just some "Youthful Folly" person :zzz:. LiSe’s website http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/ even uses the term “brave hero” (heroine :))(thanks, LiSe). It might be considered then, that the seeker might deserve a little more credit up front from the wise and independent arbitrator for extenuating circumstances. Even if, begrudgingly :eek:, said wise and independent arbitrator is ultimately “strong enough to lend weight to the right side.”

you said you got hex 6 unchanging right ? So why are you referring to 'lessons' in lines 5 and 6 when you didn't cast them ? :confused:

Maybe you take all the lines advice if you get an unchanging hexagram ? Makes no sense to me though
 

iams girl

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Maybe you take all the lines advice if you get an unchanging hexagram ? Makes no sense to me though
In my Wilhelm's book in the Forward (p. xxx, footnote 10), C. G. Jung says: "The Chinese interpret only the changing lines in the hexagram obtained by use of the oracle. I have found all the lines of the hexagram to be relevant in most cases."

It's think it's true. IMO, the whole reading paints a complete picture. While the moving lines represent the main theme, I find the rest valuable as well. For example, reading about worst to best case scenarios can be very motivating. Also, facets of a situation (positive or negative key elements/relationships) might turn up and enhance understanding. Or, making one aware of stabilizing or destabilizing forces might help one prepare for dealing with certain circumstances.

In hex 6 unchanging, I still take the Judgment and the Image (pretty much summed up in "cautious halt halfway" for me) as having the final say. However, each of the 6 lines also show me practical ways of making that happen. Personal examples: be mindful of impending gossip, retreat a bit and skip visits here and there, do a little more research on Sooo's post which for me ties into line 3 "nourish oneself on ancient virtue", be open to advice, be grateful with less, take initiative and talk things out, and find peace before acting or I will become exhausted.

Make more sense?
 

Trojina

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In hex 6 unchanging, I still take the Judgment and the Image (pretty much summed up in "cautious halt halfway" for me) as having the final say. However, each of the 6 lines also show me practical ways of making that happen. Personal examples: be mindful of impending gossip, retreat a bit and skip visits here and there, do a little more research on Sooo's post which for me ties into line 3 "nourish oneself on ancient virtue", be open to advice, be grateful with less, take initiative and talk things out, and find peace before acting or I will become exhausted.

Make more sense?

I guess its a matter of personal choice. For me it being unchanging is significant in itself, more significant than lines I didn't get. Plus of course the lines give quite different advice so if any were meant for you would have received that line IMO. I've never seen the lines as a progression as in 'if you heed line 3 then line 4 happens' and so on, or that there were particular 'lessons' in lines, I don't see it that way

But thanks for explaining why you take all the lines into account in an unchanging hexagram. I have heard others say they do this with similar reasoning, that all lines are facets of the situation ( er that I think isn't in your situation or you would have cast it :D) I guess theres logic to it though I wouldn't want to do it myself


Edit - Well actually I don't think I have seen others do it to behonest but I knew there was an idea somewhere that its a good idea.
 

iams girl

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...have to admit, again, simple clarity of your perspective did have desired sobering effect :bows:
 

iams girl

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Hi Sooo,

Thank you personally for your post. It is somehow calming to me. I know ultimately decisions all fall on my shoulders alone, but would prefer to make best the best decision possible in this case. Learning the hard way is not my favorite path. If it's about having recognizing something in me, then I guess I'm looking for the counterbalance from others to reflect other inner things. Does that make sense? Is it really possible to perfectly trust in oneself without feedback from others?

Strictly celibate as far as I know, values the community as a family, believes in it's benefit to others. Mentioned one regret in life has been never having had children. Not at an age he would likely consider it, but maybe a struggle revisited.

I do have more confidence now in my ability to turn this situation around now thanks to discussion on this thread and reading others. Hopefully will avoid the admonition of line 6. Just have to go do it now....
 

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