Life and death...?

madversity · Feb 26, 2004

hi everyone. although i do not know how to give smtng to any of u. but must ask your interpretaions of my answer.

i met a young relative of mine yesterday and i offered to use hilarry's online service for her. she is terminally ill and asked when she will die. i suggested to change it so wed have more of a context. so we asked... will i die in the coming year?

i rarely ask about the future and was stumped by the answer. u can imagine i felt i had let her down and asked if i could turn to you for help and she agreed.

my answer was 31/2,4,5 to 46. thank you.

dobro p · Feb 26, 2004

Yeah, it's a pretty obscure response.

My guess is: you don't get to know the answer to the question because you don't need to know.

On the other hand, maybe the response was obscure because the question was a yes/no question. The Yi's not so useful with that type of question usually. You get better results with: "What do I need to know about...?"

dharma · Feb 26, 2004

this is my take on the (31>46) response that you got

if one imagines that this is a worthy goal to pursue, whether in actuality or merely as a question directed at the yi, one would be incorrect. genuine reasoning and a strong will for a solution is more appropriate a focus. change focus - ask a more empowering question, such as, what would it take to live on in better health?

hilary · Feb 26, 2004

I'm stumped, too - and daunted. I wonder whether this isn't a case where Yi's perspective and human perspective are almost too far apart for communication. We might expect an answer about misfortune and endings to denote death, but this won't necessarily be what comes. (As it's not necessarily how it is.)

Having said that - if this answer is to be applied to the question or its subject at all, then it is about the presence of the spirit in the body, and also having some degree of choice about where and how it's expressed there. Maybe this is a change of focus along similar lines to what Dharma suggests?

gene · Feb 26, 2004

I don't think the I Ching is going to answer us about our death. What purpose would it serve? To get us all depressed? Or to give us a kind of false hope? Actually, I do think there is an answer of sorts here, but I will not delineate it partly for the reasons mentioned above. There is a key though in the relating hexagram rising. I won't say anything more than that. I don't think divinations as a rule tell us about our death. It's wisdom is for the living. It may tell us about someone else's death, only superficially related to the overall question, but once again, while we are alive, we need to focus on life. We will have plenty of time to focus on death when that time comes.

Gene

bradford_h · Feb 26, 2004

Hi all-
I'm with you guys. On the surface this doesn't look at all like a terminal illness. The transitional hexagrams also seem to track a process of recovery (31.2, 28.4, 48.5, 46).
So if death is a given and it Is just a matter of a short time, this must be talking about the evolution of a spirit. In either case there is no time like the present to work on spiritual practice and get/stay linked to the superior force. Will hospice care help with this?

madversity · Feb 26, 2004

hi everyone. thank u for your responds. i totally agree about yes/no questions and avoid them. just shes my cousin's wife and the scene was very stressfull for different reasons.

i also agree about death being irrelivent in general, but i sensed her concerned came mainly from her being a mother and worrying for the children she loves. her eldest is 18 and will b going to the army soon and every mother in israel is mortified when this time comes. she wanted to know he'll b ok.

because i hadnt seen her for many years and i was out of my element at my mother's where we met i cast this question and i feel so sorry. she was very eager and i asked her to wright her questions on a page for me. the question smelled bad but atm i couldnt think why it isnt a legitimate one, so i changed it just a bit. now i dont know how to apologize to her.

although she is on high doses of morphium but insists to keep working as a social worker and she is wonderful, u wouldnt know she is so sick.

thank you all again. tali.

bradford_h · Feb 26, 2004

Well, a prescription for morphine is an omen in itself.
Given that,46 can also be about setting an example, which it sounds like she's doing, and courage, which it sounds like she has.
There is also a word play in Sheng1 - this is also the pronunciation of the word for life/growth/birth, which the Yi itself uses in the Tuan Zhuan of 46.
Her son is a separate question.
So is war.

candid · Feb 26, 2004

Dharma, I think your response was succinct. I can not but reach the same interpretation.

madversity · Feb 26, 2004

indeed brad. she is a brave and caring person.. although i cant help thinking that ascension means the point when mind leaves body.

as for birth, i find we go through so many rebirths within life, and in a metaphysical way, death is the ultimate rebirth, or pre-rebirth. i have no doubt it is a stage of growth and our one chance to truly cling to god, if only for a moment...i suppose 46 would imply both senses.

as for 31, ive always got in a relationship context. thank u hilary for pointing to the interaction between mind and body in this context. i also noticed bound in31 ends a full cycle, while the outsideworld goes on. i will try to think of more pragmatic questions to suggest to her. again thank-you. and...good nite. tali.

Sparhawk · Feb 27, 2004

Hi Tali,

Here is something from the Medical I Ching by Miki Shima:

31. Xian, Influence (Wooing)

General Indications: Infectious diseases. External causes of illness. Affliction from venereal origin. Sexual excess. Interior heat and exterior cold. Congenital illness.
Specific Indications: Contagious illness. Venereal diseases. Lower abdominal pain. Heavy limbs. Headaches. Food stagnation. Liver Cancer.

Line 2. One senses their calves. there will be misfortune. Procrastination brings good fortune.
Fair prognosis. Painful spasm of legs. Depression due to mental stress. Flu.

Line 4. Perseverance brings good fortune. Remorse disappears. One is disturbed and their mind wanders yet one's friends follow one's ideas.

Fair prognosis. Kidney vacuity. Anxiety. Nervous breakdown. Sexual excess. Lower back pain. Genital problems.

Line 5. One senses the back of their neck. there will be no remorse.

Poor prognosis. Epilepsy. Apoplexy. Asthma. Gastrointestinal cancer. Death.

46. Sheng. Pushing Upward.

General Indications: Upward movement of qi and blood to the head, causing congestion and stagnation. Gastrointestinal distress. Fast shift in symptomatology.

Specific Indications: Seizures. Vertigo. Headaches. Stroke. Mental derangement. Meningitis. Food stagnation. Abdominal mass. vomiting. Diarrhea.

=================

Luis

madversity · Feb 27, 2004

thank u luis. ive added the book to my wish list..
btw which H's denote healthy states of being. tali. or ill check at the link u gave me. tanks.

ive been wondering if u have any more productive questions to ask so she has as much info to make important decisions while she still can and better prepare herself and her loved one's for her demise.

candid · Feb 27, 2004

I breathed life back into my ex-wife, held her hand through four months of critical care, brain scans, plastic surgeries, heart failures, respiratory arrests and seizures. The doctors gave up, I would not, and so neither did she. She is alive and well years later.

This fatalism makes me angry.

cheiron · Feb 27, 2004

Candid

I offer my respect.

--Kevin

candid · Feb 27, 2004

Kevin, no one here knows better than you exactly what I'm talking about. You deal with this kind of thing routinely, as I understand it. Life requires will. 46. The Universe does not cooperate with unbelief, but it does allow us to make choices. It is not sympathetic to fatalism. Neither will I be.

Thank you, friend.

C

madversity · Feb 27, 2004

agreed. fatalism sucks i prefer a soft determenism. i apologize for having offeded u candid. tali.

candid · Feb 27, 2004

Tali, it isn't I that needs or requests your apology. But you might reconsider the kind of support you offer your friend. Life, each moment, is for living.

from an old song to a friend who had given up..

you may say all the things that you believe
but there's more to living,
and you know that the reason that we're here
is for giving.

and the movement is running away
where have you been today?

you may cry for the fears that live inside
but you're wasting.
there's nothing wrong telling people that you've tried
if you're trying.

and the movement is running away,
where have you been today?

C

candid · Feb 27, 2004

Tali, for what its worth, the friend I wrote that to is now living a tremendously vital life, is on the board of directors for Warner Bros, and owns/operates his own animated film company. I'm not saying this was because of my song, but because he "decided" to take his natural talents and gifts and make something extraordinary happen with his life.

Sometimes its takes more than soft determinism. Sometimes you have to fight for your life.

C

Sparhawk · Feb 27, 2004

Tali,
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

ive been wondering if u have any more productive questions to ask so she has as much info to make important decisions while she still can and better prepare herself and her loved one's for her demise.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

I rather not. I limited myself to quote some text from a book I have and thought it was relevant to the situation. I will not venture interpretations of the text or look for any more other than what applied to the Hexagrams obtained in your query.

Regarding the Yi, I dislike offering advise on personal situations. Specially in something as serious as somebody's life. I enjoy joking and learning and participating in the mechanics of the Yi. Beyond that, for me, is very personal and I seldom break my own rules (I have, mind you, but today is not one of those days...)

I do agree however with Candid about what I consider the proper attitude towards life. Keep being there for your friend.

L

learner · Mar 1, 2004

Hello all,
Seven years ago I came up against a life-threatening situation. Being seriously ill, I was about to be taken to the hospital when I decided to ask the I-Ching if I would die in the emergency room. The answer came with Hexagram 38, Opposition, third moving line.

'One sees the wagon dragged back,
The oxen halted,
A man's hair and nose cut off.
Not a good beginning, but a good end.'

This is exactly what happened. I suffered a lot but, as you can see, I am still here alive and well.
Reflecting on the past, I do understand my reasons for having asked such a question at that moment.
However, I would not do it again, if I had to face a similiar situation in the present. The way I see it now, there is no point in speculating on the date of our death. There is a timely advice on the I-Ching in Hexagram 30 -Fire- third changing line.

'In the light of the setting sun,
Men either beat the pot and sing
Or loudly bewail the approach of old age.
Misfortune.
'To the superior man it makes no difference whether death comes early or late. He cultivates himself, awaits the alloted time, and this way secure his fate.'

I do not know why the I-Ching addressed my question directly when I asked about my death and the answer was crystal clear. Perhaps the Y was sympathetic towards desperate plight. *grim*

Anyway, what I learnt from this experience is that every moment of life is unique and we should get the best out of it, not matter how difficult the circumstances are.

I know it is a little bit obvious, but hope this helps.

All the best,
Mirian

Life and death...?

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