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Hello Everyone:)! I have 2 job offers, as I've mentioned before, and I've decided which one I am going with. But, I feel like no matter which one I pick, I'm going to wonder about the other job a little. Once I decide, I start to think about the other job, and then end up going back to my original decision, and still, are some things I will wonder about the other job :rolleyes:. Ideally, I would work the one I'm taking, and keep the other as a side job, but the hours wouldn't work out. Anyway, I still wanted to check with the Yi just to be sure I am not missing anything here...

What are the consequences in working at X? and received 35.1.4> 27

What are the consequences in working at Y? and received 61.1.5.6>7

I'm taking 35.1.4>27 to mean I'll need to see things through to completion, work on my follow through, and will gradually advance this way. This option would provide for my basic needs.

I'm taking 61.1.5.6>7 to mean to pay attention to signs, be honest with myself, trust my intuition and experience, and don't over analyze things. Also, would need to be resourceful in this situation. I'm not as clear on the meaning with this one.

I really don't feel like I can make a wrong choice here, which is why I am having so much trouble making the choice. I just feel like I am missing something about this situation. Would appreciate some perspective here.

Thanks in advance for your insights:bows:
DWF:)
 

Lavalamp

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What are the consequences in working at X?

35.1
Kind of entry level?
35.4
You won't be sorry, you will have friends that follow your heart, but to go beyond that circle of influence you will have to be tough.
> 27
Will provide for your inner and outer needs. But be temperate in what you say and in your "eating and drinking" (figuratively and literally, probably.) Family or small business?

What are the consequences in working at Y?

61.1
Carry the consciousness of your inner values with you, prepare your heart and mind. Some may try to draw you into relationships that are more disruptive than constructive for you in your career, and in your inner peace.
61.5
Honest character will make you a natural leader of others.
61.6
Talk without capable action is ineffectual, won't accomplish anything.
>7
A leader centered, disciplined organization, with a lot of allies.
Sounds kinda Corporate, with the usual challenges that you get working in one.
 
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Thanks Lavalamp:), that is right on point. I'm going with job X. The one with the more cozy feel to it. It isn't family owned, but is a smaller company, and the store I will be at is quite small. Not a lot of employees, and all younger than me. I really like the manager. A little low on the totem pole at X to start, but I think I could move up there. Will probably have to be tough, though, like you said.

Y is a huge company. Enormous monster company. It is a true sales job, and you have to produce. There is a quota etc. and potential to make very good money and career advancement. Definitely challenging to hold onto your values in such a competitive atmosphere. It is a great job if you can do it, and the truth is I might be able to, and might not. I've done similar work before, so I have an idea of what I'm capable of in that realm, and I think I might be a little out of my league with the this one. You can transfer after 6 months to another position in the company though. Since they are so big, probably can transfer anywhere. Great perks, decent benefits, and room to move up...

So, they are both good options, but reading the castings, Y gives me heart palpitations, and X feels good. I think Y is just not what I need right now. It's not that stable, and if I'm not producing enough, I won't have a job. I like sales, but I think I could just do something part time on the side to fulfill that desire. And would earn me a little extra money doing that. So that is kind of my plan. If I do that, I could earn up to 50% more per month. But, for now I think I'm just going to settle in at the new place. Looking forward to a base pay, even if it is modest.

Thanks Lavalamp:bows:
 

rodaki

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35.4
You won't be sorry, you will have friends that follow your heart, but to go beyond that circle of influence you will have to be tough.
> 27
Will provide for your inner and outer needs. But be temperate in what you say and in your "eating and drinking" (figuratively and literally, probably.) Family or small business?

utterly curious Lavalamp, where is this interpretation of 35.4 is coming from? First time I've come across it . . . makes me wonder if this is still the Yijing you're talking about . .
Hmm, if there's a new expanded version or method of reading it, I'm sure it would do everyone mountains of good to get a better look at it! So far, the rest of the things Yijing books show about this critter have been along the lines of . .


Nine in the fourth place means:
Progress like a hamster.
Perseverance brings danger.
In times of progress it is easy for strong men in the wrong places to amass great possessions. But such conduct shuns the light. And since times of progress are also times in which dubious procedures are inevitably brought to the light, perseverance in such action always leads to danger.
Wilhelm


9 at 4: Advancing like a five-skills-squirrel. Determination danger.
Knowing a lot of things, but all just a little. Doing many things but not finishing one. Then there will never be any advance. Everything – a thing, a relation, your life – needs completion. A half-built house is no house, a half-lived life is no life.
Lise


35.4, 9 4th, Zhi Gua 23: Bo, Decomposing
(Fan Yao 23.4: stripping the bed for its flesh, ominous)
Advancing like a squirrelly rodent
Persistence is dangerous
35.4x The squirrelly rodent’s persistence (is) dangerous:
The position is not appropriate
At night, in the dumps, he is king, but this time he goes too far. He is found out by
the dawn and the daylight, in flagrante delicto, sneaking around on the palace lawn,
disclosed and exposed to the public, barely a squeak ahead of the royal gardener’s
shovel. He’ll be lucky to keep his ratty old tail. The rodents, of course, have their
places, and specific kinds of wits evolved to go with it. But clever, stealthy, nosey,
skulking and sly sorts of wits have no advantage, or less, in this bright light of day.
And all that you’ll need to trap them is to understand what they crave. Self-interest
is not their problem, only the unenlightened self-interest. He is stealing the things
that he has today for the asking, just like a thief at a potlatch. Openness, light and
fresh air restore the general welfare today. Good health is the parasite’s downfall.
Bradford

. . .
?
 

Lavalamp

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Well I referenced the wrong line once last night, let me see! Hmm.

Ack, you are completely right, good catch. I read Hex 31 by mistake.

I read 31.1 about "power in the toes" "ready to advance" to mean entry level.
I read 31.4 about "firm correctness .. leads to good fortune, and prevents all occasion for repentance. " (you won't regret it) and If its subject be unsettled in his movements, (only) his friends will follow his purpose." "If he be wavering and uncertain, his influence will not extend beyond the circle of his friends."

I should probably have less than the 20 some odd browser tabs I do right now open at a time! And the deoxy.org/iching site doesn't automatically change to the selected hex either, sometimes I have problems with that.

Thanks for the good catch, Rodaki. Good thing I don't get paid for this!
 

rodaki

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hmm . . let's see . .
31.1,4 would change to 63 (if that's of any help!)
and 20 odd ones surely don't do much good as far as clarity's concerned

Anyways, not much good on a five-skills squirrel I have to admit :rolleyes: . . if it was about a new improved version, now that would make a good catch, lol
But I guess this is just the same old nighttrippingoddvision, sooo . .

:p
 

Lavalamp

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hmm . . let's see . .
31.1,4 would change to 63 (if that's of any help!)
and 20 odd ones surely don't do much good as far as clarity's concerned

Anyways, not much good on a five-skills squirrel I have to admit :rolleyes: . . if it was about a new improved version, now that would make a good catch, lol
But I guess this is just the same old nighttrippingoddvision, sooo . .

:p

Deoxy is text based, it's not like Ewald's site where you enter a hex with lines and it shows you the resulting hex. I like it because I can cross reference iching plus and Legge commentaries against the WIlhelm pretty easily, nice "Concordance" aspect. Sometimes I'll use Ewald's site to check the change has been correctly referenced by a querent. But I haven't actually pulled out the big yellow book withe the grey cover, (or Joseph Murphy, speaking of new interpretations!) for the longest time.
 

rodaki

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well, plenty of yellow books lying around for the taking ;) -which one would you mean? . . the book I'm using has every color on the rainbow on it - I usually take my notes in colored markers, makes it more fun :D
 

Lavalamp

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Yes, but the "Big Yellow book with the Grey cover" would be Wilhelm/Barnes.

The language differences between Chinese and English are bad enough, let alone from Chinese to German to English! But having sat many times in between Asians and Western people trying to communicate complex ideas through pidgin English, the language of the Wilhelm doesn't put me off so much these days. :bows:
 
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So, I'm a little confused now. Kind of like I just got the translation from Chinese to German to English:). Does anyone know what line 4 of 35 might mean in light of my question? Seems to be a lot of controversy over it's meaning. I thought it was a warning not to spread myself too thin. Maybe keep things out in the open. How do you all see this line here? Especially health will be downfall... What? Translated into amateur, please:blush:... :bows:
 
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Lavalamp

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Sorry DWF, I'll try again.

What are the consequences in working at X?
35.1
Do the right thing and remain cheerful. Others want to advance and may put you down, don't react just persevere. This will bring good fortune and prevent mistakes.
35.4
Someone in a strong postion will be hoarding - maybe power, responsibility, overtime, goods, to the detriment of the business. It will all come out publicly eventually, you can't hide such things forever. Danger there, be careful.
>27
It will take care of your inner and outer needs. But be careful in what you say, who you back, and in what you "eat" (the practices of others you inherit/engage in.)
 
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35.4
Someone in a strong postion will be hoarding - maybe power, responsibility, overtime, goods, to the detriment of the business. It will all come out publicly eventually, you can't hide such things forever. Danger there, be careful.

Hmmm... That doesn't sound good. I will keep an eye out for this situation and hopefully avoid any involement. Doesn't sound like anything I want to deal with. I thought the Yi was warning me not to be like the rat, but I'm not like that... I thought it was a little weird that the Yi was advising against behavior that's so uncharacteristic of me... :duh: The rat is someone else! Revelation!:eek: I thought I might be misinterpreting. Stupid rat!

The rest of it sounds like what I was expecting. Maybe some people who try to hold ya back... With the scarcity of jobs, the competition can get to peoples' heads, so this doesn't surprise me. I will be preapared for it. My plan is to keep a safe distance and detachment, while still being friendly. Give me a chance to get a clear picture of who I'm dealing with etc. I would like to move up as quickly as possible, so will be keeping things very professional anyway

Thanks Lavalamp:bows:
 

Trojina

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35.4
Someone in a strong postion will be hoarding - maybe power, responsibility, overtime, goods, to the detriment of the business. It will all come out publicly eventually, you can't hide such things forever. Danger there, be careful.

Hmmm... That doesn't sound good. I will keep an eye out for this situation and hopefully avoid any involement. Doesn't sound like anything I want to deal with. I thought the Yi was warning me not to be like the rat, but I'm not like that... I thought it was a little weird that the Yi was advising against behavior that's so uncharacteristic of me... :duh: The rat is someone else! Revelation!:eek: I thought I might be misinterpreting. Stupid rat!

The rest of it sounds like what I was expecting. Maybe some people who try to hold ya back... With the scarcity of jobs, the competition can get to peoples' heads, so this doesn't surprise me. I will be preapared for it. My plan is to keep a safe distance and detachment, while still being friendly. Give me a chance to get a clear picture of who I'm dealing with etc. I would like to move up as quickly as possible, so will be keeping things very professional anyway

Thanks Lavalamp:bows:

re the underlined, it was, in a way...no reason to think this is about someone else... May not be a warning...just showing someone chasing small profits, like a squirrel for example http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=14386. I'd say this kind of chasing of small profits is unworthy of you perhaps in that you could get bigger gains through less subterfuge...but it may be thats the best way for you to get nuts now anway

I forget what work you do...but if its selling then it would be a bit squirrel like wouldn't it.

You are the only person who can decide if your answer is about you or them...you didn't ask about them did you

I can't really see a huge difference between working at X or Y...both in a sense seem to have an element of pretence ? (61.6, 35.4
 
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Glenngarry Glennross

Yes, thank you Trojan. That is the right word. Pretense.. You see that too? I think the pretense at job Y is more concerning. Job X is more of a customer service/sales/lower management job. I don't make a commission, and they don't push any particular product. So, I don't think the squirrel here relates to sales, but I can definitely see how it could if it came up for a sales job!:rofl: Could be something like that though. If the rodent is me, then I think Lise's interpretation is the most likely fit. It's really hard to say for sure because the situation is totally new, and there are so many different ideas about what this line can mean. I had asked, "What are the consequences of working at X?"

9 at 4: Advancing like a five-skills-squirrel. Determination danger.
Knowing a lot of things, but all just a little. Doing many things but not finishing one. Then there will never be any advance. Everything – a thing, a relation, your life – needs completion. A half-built house is no house, a half-lived life is no life.
Lise

The consequence will either be dealing with the 5 skills squirrel or avoiding being like him. I guess we'll find out eventually.

In an attempt to clarify what is going on here, I asked, "How should I begin my job at X?" and I got 18.2.3>23. Leave job Y? I already started training for job Y. Or is this about job X? What is going on? These lines are so bizarre... It's just a simple position. Why do I need to strip away corruption? :confused::confused::confused::

I looked into and seems like the Yi is advising not to get carried away correcting other people's mistakes. And to be nice about it... Well, I'll do my best;).
 
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Hi DWF,

Sometimes when starting a new job, one that you describe as a simple position (without previous training or experience etc), it is best to start afresh. Without any preconceived notions. You don't need to really compare it to any other job or to have a specific outlook of it. And you don't need to put some specific skill to use that you had from a previous job (I am guessing but not sure!). I think that is what the reading is saying for "how should I begin my job at X?"

When I personally get 18, it seems to be pointing to the way I am viewing something. The past is spoiling the present moment for me. The way I am viewing the situation needs work. So I start "looking" at it differently to begin the process of "working" on what has been spoiled. .... If that makes any sense :)

23 in this case could be your need to wipe the slate clean. Clean the worms out. New start! This can be a wonderful thing!

Take care,
AQ
 

Lavalamp

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Well regarding the 35.4, I did write it as "someone" but I don't think it's you really, as the commentary says it's a "Strong man," and you described the job as pretty much a lower level position. "In times of progress it is easy for strong men in the wrong places to amass great possessions" - sounds like management to me. Of course it is true small people in service positions lord themselves over others all the time!

But not you, right? ;)
 
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I try to control the urge;)... True, I'm not a strong male, so probably isn't me. Good point. Hmmm.... Well, I haven't met anyone there that seems squirelly yet, but I'll keep an eye out for it. I guess time will tell. What more can I do?
 
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Lavalamp

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The translation for 35.4 from Hilarys book is "Advancing like a long-tailed rodent, Constancy;danger" see there is no 'strong man' there at all

Its better to stay with the actual translation, the words of the Yi than follow Wilhelms commentaries paraphrased.

Well Trojan, I'll take your digression from the discussion here. No disrespect to Hilary, but Wilhelm lived in China and wrote his translation under the direct guidance of a Chinese Master of the Yi, one of the last of the line of such Masters. According to Carl Jung, Wilhelm's translation was a direct collaboration 10 years in the making in fact. I think Wilhelm's work has the deep benefit of the oral tradition of Master-Student that I don't see in most recent Occidental works. And I notice that the concept of Discipleship in general tends to quite often rankle the same people who have problems with Wilhelm.

I think your attitude towards Richard Wilhelm is very off base in terms of the Yi, ignoring tradition and discarding much accumulated wisdom.
 

Lavalamp

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And Trojan, you might like to consider the Chinese view of what a "long tailed rodent" is as well....

"The Sign of the Rat
Being born under this sign determines many talents, as well as other characteristics that may not be so commendable......
.....The sign of the Rat is the first sign in the cycle. Rat people exude great leadership qualities and are good at taking the lead. They don't mind a lot of responsibility and they demonstrate a strong presence that other people respect. For those with the Rat nature, status and monetary satisfaction are the greatest motivation."

LL
 
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Thanks AQ:)! Always good to hear some different perspective on things. Does the rat in the line have to be male? Hmmmm... I don't know if the rat has to be a man, but perhaps has to be masculine in some way. It's a good question. Lavalamp, what is your thinking here? I'm still developing my ideas about such things. Like in 44, does the inferior influence always have to be a female? Do they even have to be people in these lines? I'm open minded and just observing and thinking about these ideas, and feel no need, at this point to come to any hard and fast conclusions. For me, that is part of the learning process, and I have found I develop a deeper understanding when I approach a new subject that way. My gut feeling here though is the rat is someone else. Seems like I have to try to fit the line in with an interpretation where it's me, and it falls into place if it is someone else. I'm not very masculine, and I have little power in this situation. I don't want to form any prejudice though here either, so I'm just going to take things as they come. I always anticipate positivity, so unless I see some red flag, I'm not going to worry about it. Time will tell.

I will say, I do like Wilhelm's interpretation. I have found that, when I've used it, I've gotten very detailed answers. It is very good at distinguishing small nuances. Lise's is beautifully written, and there have definitely been a few aha moments there, and for me, I've found it easier to get a better feel for the big picture sometimes using Lise's translation. Legge and Bradford are next on my list of translations to look at more thoroughly. And how could I forget Hilary's! I do like Hilary's. Very clear. Never feel like I read a translation with Hilary''s. Anyway, in the end, my feeling is that a picture's worth a thousand words, and, in the end, everything comes from the images of the hexagrams. Seems like that is the common denominator. So, what is going on visually with this hexagram? Maybe that will help clear up any ambiguity. Does the rat correspond with a yang line or something?
 
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Lavalamp

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I think pretty much gender is relative with the Yi. The "Superior Man" could as easily be written as "The Superior Person," but there just weren't a whole lot of real life Mulan's back in the day, so most students were male. And Chinese, of course. Bruce Lee almost got killed for teaching a Westerner - in America! - so I think sometimes how exceptional it was for Wilhelm to have been taught by a living Yi Master shouldn't be under estimated. I think the man had a real fear that his knowledge would die with him.

As for the "Rat" - well what year were you born? Couldn't be you, you're a Sheep or a Horse, right? ;)
(Fox" is "Monkey" btw, don't see Ferret in Chinese Astrology anywhere.)
 

precision grace

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Sheep! Waah I am a Pig. And you are a Leo and I'm Aries. No wonder we get on so well :D
 
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That's right, sheep and pigs are birds of a feather, or should I say we are of the same hoof... Arian Pig! Sounds like an insult. And Leo Sheep is kind of an oxymoron .... In the West, sheep is the follower. And totally contrasts Leo that way. Doesn't have the same impact on people either when I tell them I'm a Sheep vs saying I'm a Leo. They're just like, "Ohh." Like they were expecting something more:rolleyes:. Well, let's just say I'm a black sheep;)... Not a sheep to be trifled with. Rebel sheep... Baaah... Hiss!
 
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:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Don't you oink at me Precision Grace:p
Sheep plus Lion makes... Dancing White Ferret? :confused:
And that's really where white ferrets came from...:p
 

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