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37 changing to 8, 63 changing to 39

S

seeker

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Little background, up until a few months ago, my husband and I had an open relationship (no judgements please), but realized we had drifted apart so decided to cut all those ties, concentrate on each other and see a counselor. When I was cleaning out the delete folder on our email today (we have the same server, but different addresses, but all deletes go to the same folder), I noticed one from him to his former girlfriend, for lack of a better term. I know I shouldn't have looked at it, but I did and was shocked to discover his explaining to her that he had not been online to talk to her due to being sick, no mention of me, but would try to be later that night. I checked his inbox and sure enough there is one from her today apologizing for not being on due to her work schedule. He had told me that although he had not formerly ended it (wanted to do that in person if he could), he had not heard from her and they were basically over. I consulted the I Ching about how honest he is being with me and got 37 to 8, confused I asked how honest he is being with her and got 63 to 39. I am very angry, he deceived me either way, its just a matter of how much, but I do not want to jump to conclusions. Does anyone have any ideas on what this means? BTW, don't know if it relates, but did a reading maybe a week or so ago asking what I needed to strip away and 37 was part of that as well.
 

stuart

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I see the hexigram 37 with moving lines as an explanation of your marriage.lines 1 and 3 talk of proper regulation in the partnership,each person must perform his role with sincerity and balance.The top line is one of good fortune due to the proper mean being exercised.I think you will eventually return to a settled and happy condition.As for hex 63 moving line.The person must not push forward or he is likely to face disorder.Perhaps your husband realises this!.
 
C

candid

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Seeker,

Stuart about summed up my thoughts on your reading. Only thing I'd add is that it will take time to reconstruct this relationship, and its unlikely it will be as it was before the relationship opened up. Now its a matter of opening up fully to one another, and that will take some time and work. The counseling may be a great idea. Trust issues can remain buried for long periods of time, but they'll always surface again. Its vital that these experiences (those outside your relationship) are not used as weapons against each other, now or in the future. That was then - this is now. If one or the other drags the relationship through this tumultuous past it could well be the death knell for the relationship.

It may be a good idea to allow him, to allow each other, a bit of time to unloosen those ties with others as needed, something between ?then and now.? If there was any depth in those relationships at all it could be painful. Wounding those others won?t make your own relationship any better, or make it heal any quicker.

The objective now is to hold it together. That means own it together.
 
S

seeker

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I don't understand this response at all, and quite honestly I am beginning to question whether the I Ching values agree with mine. I know that the I Ching is based on ancient Oriental values, and I have wondered before if it would treat women as second class citizens the way that Oriental culture often did. The fact is that he lied to me. It was one thing when we both knew about it, but now, he hasn't been honest with me. You said that each of us has to perform our role with sincerety, but he isn't doing that. He told me that he did not have any real feelings for her, making me feel doubly guilty because I did develope feelings for someone else. But in that email he called her Beloved. I would say he is certainly being insincere with one of us. Or perhaps he is just hedging his bets, making sure he isn't left alone. Either way, I do not understand this response at all.
 

martin

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Seeker, I might be wrong here, but the impression that I get from your hexagrams is that your husband has basically honest intentions, although he apparently tried to hide something from you.
After all hex 63 indicates that this other relationship is indeed ending. Perhaps it indicates more generally also that a whole way of living (associated with your open marriage) comes to an end.
And the text of 63 talks about the fact that endings are not that easy and tend to be confusing.
Nowadays we would use phrases like 'unfinished business' and 'ghosts of the past'.

Perhaps your husband contacted her again, not because he wants to continue the relationship but because he feels that the way it ended is unsatisfactory for him and for her. Or because of other ghosts of the past ... well, I guess it's better if you ask him yourself.
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37 to 8 also seems to confirm his honest intentions. He wants a more closed or close relationship (37) with you against the background of your relationship in the past that was more open and allowed more freedom (8).
I think 37 to 8 is a very apt image of what you both are trying to do now. The purpose is 37 but 8 is somehow still there, even if only as a ghost that now and then visits you and brings back old feelings.

As to the cultural bias of the Yi, yes, of course, this bias is undeniable. As is ours, by the way!
The values of the writers of the Yi are not always our values. All this talk about concubines for the sake of bearing sons, come on, why not male 'concubines' for the sake of bearing daughters?
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But I personally don't see that as a problem, because there is so much in the Yi that transcends cultural differences. And if you know where the bias is you can simply neglect it.
 

RindaR

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May I try my hand at this? Please remember I'm new at trying to do this for others, and am willing to listen to the (hopefully gentle) voices of those who are more experienced here if/when I go astray.

I'm with the others in that I think Yi is going deeper than the symptom of his lies to you, and may be addressing the underlying foundations of your relationship. There are several things about these lines that make me wonder if you might be the kind of person who feels very incomplete without a partner. If this does not ring true, the rest won't either, so it's ok to just put this in your dustbin.

Hex 37 says that relationships must be real partnerships, that families are based on an economic need to survive. (I'm going by LiSe's elucidations here.)

The first changing line as I read it means that you must first trust yourself, have a safe home in your own heart, to be able to provide for your own basic needs, before you can expect to be able to be truly happy in a relationship with another person. Not to be dependent, not to be aggressive.

Line three says to me, that although this is a very difficult thing, once you've accomplished that inner sort of independence where you have the freedom to be not dependent nor aggressive with another in order to try to meet your needs, you won't ever forget it. It will always stand you in good stead.

Line 6 says to me that perhaps you have been too idealistic about your expectations of this relationship, and that along with your idealism you might benefit from a willingness to fight for it, to be a little scrappier, a little more confrontive than you have been... That it will take more energy to hold this together than you may have been giving to it. (Remember, you asked the question, so I do not see this as a scolding by Yi but an analysis of what _you_ may need to hear, and he may need to hear _his_ own stuff!!)

With the first line changing the hexagram transforms into 53. This says to me that the process of reclaiming this relationship will be gradual and will need much attention and energy. It also says never give up. The changing line (.3) that now moves the series of hexagrams toward 8 says you need a permanent thread woven through your relationship - something you hold in common - a value, a goal, somehow tied to your survival in the material world. (Children? a business? a household? a farm? one of the creative arts? something tied to a way you both can express values you hold in common...) Something where everyday small events will add up to enough ties to hold you two together.

The next transformation (by the change of .3)is 20. This is the Heron, which says to me that you may need inner stillness and great patience to see within yourself (and thus within the relationship) what _you_ need to change in order to build something with him that will last. It also speaks of staying in the present, something Candid also mentioned. Every moment is a new one. That's the only place we have the power to change things, right now, right here. The key changing line here is .6, and this speaks again of
how much your own self-image, your trust in your own goodness and strength affects your relationship with others. This may be speaking to your sense of guilt, and a need to forgive yourself by seeing the root cause of your behavior and by a determination to find and use alternatives which will work better for you in the future.

Finally we come to 8 - Stand By. A small imperfection at the beginning of your relationship may have led to this situation which now has become a huge flaw. A neutral voice is needed - perhaps Yi, or Yi and that still small voice within you?

Can the two of you agree to consult Yi together (or together and separately?) on issues that rise and threaten your unity and listen to it with your hearts? If not, not to worry too much. Any change in one person will of necessity force a change in the responses of another - a relationship is like a mobile - tug on one part and all the others respond with a counterbalancing or compensating movement.

I hope this has been helpful...

Rinda
 
S

seeker

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Sorry it took me so long to answer, haven;t been able to get on for a couple of days. Thanks for the help. I have talked to him about it, and I believe that Martin is right that he did not intend to be dishonest, but he developed a friendship with this other person and is having a hard time finding the words to end it, he doesn't want to hurt her and also doesn't feel right doing it through email, very impersonal. Rinda, you have also shown a great deal of insight into my situation. Although I have always liked to think of myself as an independant person, I have realized that I do need a relationship, for me that is part of the real joy in life, finding that one person that you can truly share everything with, yes, I am a hopeless romantic. You mentioned that families are based on an economic need to survive, perhaps that is part of my difficulty with the I Ching, my family, especially romantic relationships, are based on emotional needs, not financial. I do wonder at this though, since my husband makes almost half of what I do, would I Ching consider that a real partnership??? Also, for the past couple of years, due to medical conditions, I have taken care of him, but now he has improved to where things should be back to mostly normal where we take care of each other. However, he does not seem willing to assume that role, we just seem to have gotten into the habit of my taking care of everything. Also, I have been kind of waiting to see what he will do. I have realized that a lot of things he does have caused me a lot of pain and I have just ignored or buried it. Now, I guess I am kind of waiting to see if he can be the kind of person I want, not willing to put myself out there and get hurt again if he can't. You are also right in that we have bonds, a child and a house together. The guilt thing is there too, part of this stemmed from his being in an accident, one he was in because I was sick and refused to drive him where he wanted to go,s o he rode his bike and got hit by a truck. And the last thing, that some small thing from the beginning is causing problems, the open relationship thing, it was his idea, he came from that kind of relationship and kept bringing it up, until I finally convinced myself that I was just being prudish and closed minded and agreed to it. I realize now that deep now, while I don't have a problem with other people having that lifestyle, it is not for me, I believe that if you are in love with someone, they should be enough, you should only want that person, romantic and perhaps naive, but its how I feel and I know now that everytime he brought it up it ate away part of me, part of us. AS you can see there is a lot going on, and I really appreciate all the insight you have given me. It has helped me to see things in a new light, to put them in perspective, and we will just have to see where we end up. thanks again for listening and for the advice.
 

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