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Can someone give insight into 44?

S

seeker

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A couple of the interpretations I have seem to indicate this is a brief encounter or short-lived relationship, people coming in and out of your life, but I don't get that from Lise's interpretation at all. Am I misreading hers, or is there just more than one way to interpret this particular hex? It has come up a few times in readings lately, always as the second hex, so I am trying to gain more insight into it.
 

hilary

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I think an 'umbrella' interpretation would be that no-one can just 'take' the strong woman. Try to marry her into your usual, established way of doing things, and this can't last. (The commentary on the Judgement says as much.) Either the relationship or the person (and the whole life) doing the relating will have to change.

Try running a search in this forum on Margaret Pearson.
 

hilary

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This is very much guesswork without knowing the question or the first hexagram, but if you are constantly meeting the strong woman in the second hexagram, maybe she is a part of yourself? She can still be just as much of a challenge to the status quo, just as impossible to absorb into ordinary life.

If you take the basic idea of someone/something powerful, unexpected, threatening to the established order, impossible to deal with in ordinary ways... then you will find this fits with opposite extremes like Stephen Karcher encouraging you to let her influence carry right through, and Wilhelm having heebie-jeebies and advising you not to succumb!

An example of a 44 moment: someone who has a purely rational world-view encounters the workings of the I Ching for the first time.
 

dobro p

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"An example of a 44 moment: someone who has a purely rational world-view encounters the workings of the I Ching for the first time."

Maybe, but I bet the Yi wouldn't give that person 44 if they chose to consult. lol
 

dobro p

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44's about encountering a powerful and attractive element, but not uniting with it.

That powerful element might be a person (even a male person I suppose), or it might be a situation, or an idea, or even a potential in yourself.

Encounter means you taste the experience, but you don't claim it, you don't unite with it, cuz although it's attractive, union would not produce a happy or good outcome.
 

martin

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Okay, my view:
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In 44 something that appears to be small and insignificant triggers a chain reaction and once it has started this chain reaction is very difficult to stop.
It gets out of control before you know it.

For an example click here ...

But the consequences are not always that bad, of course.
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Perhaps something happens that is not bad at all, perhaps it is everything that you ever wished and never dared to ask ...
Still, it will probably be a bit overwhelming. So, when you hit that button - even if it is a green one - things might happen that you cannot control.
Do you really want this?
 

martin

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Of course it depends on the question and the first hexagram but when you repeatedly receive 44 as the second hexagram (as you did, Seeker) the Yi is perhaps asking you to look at control issues in your life.
Is there not enough control (do you allow things to get out of hand too easily?) or is there too much of it?
Do you often take risks or do you tend to avoid them?
Are you overly optimistic and reckless or too pessimistic, too careful?
Are you anastrophic or catastrophic? Or sometimes anastrophic and sometimes catastrophic, depending on your mood?

Does that make sense?
 
S

seeker

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Well, I think everyone here knows I have control issues
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One of the readings was about X, and another was about my romantic future in general. After reading your response, I think I might know what the issue is, but see what you think. A couple of the other readings I have gotten keep encouraging me to be myself, stay true to myself, etc. One of the things that came out when I was going to marriage counseling was that I tend to lose myself in relationships. I adapt to the other person, start following their interests and completely forget my own. In a meditation I did I got that I had never allowed anyone to love me for who I was, that I didn't trust that they would accept me for just me. In both my marriages I was right, that was part of the problem both times. When I started emerging as the real me, everything fell apart. I am normally a very strong person, but when I fall in love, I tend to subjigate myself so as to hold on to the other person. Could this be a warning not to do that, to hold on to who I really am???
 

hilary

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This feels as though you are on to something here... The relating hexagram can have a lot to say about where you are coming from, or what the underlying issue is that shapes your experience of wherever-you're-at. In this case... that strong woman is a genuinely frightening character. If you let her travel right through life - and relationships - you can't be sure that anything will look the same when she's finished. It is up to you what you do about that - squish her firmly, or let her through and see what life looks like afterwards.

People who take a more trad or Wilhelm-ish view of 44 will see this differently, though. So I am watching this space with interest.
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S

seeker

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Well, I am trying to be more true to myself, but less strong in the sense of being a control freak and bull-headedness. X always described me as sweet. It has been a long time since anyone described me that way. Maybe thats one of the reasons I am so drawn to him; he sees me as the person I want to be. Maybe that is also why when I asked if we were right for each other I got 50.

My husband is a very dark person, obsessed with death and death images. I let him drag me down into that. Somehow I began to equate strength with darkness, with fierceness. I became cynical, cold and controling. That is not who I am, nor who I want to be. But I won't be a victim either. I was one when I was much younger, and I came to the realization that it happened because I didn't fight back. Yet with my husband, I became another kind of victim. I think deep down I knew that, and I resented myself for allowing it to happen, for once again not fighting back. I let all my "strength" come from some dark place inside.

Now I am moving away from that. I am learning that you can be a nice person with a good heart and still defend yourself. If nothing else ever comes of me and X, he gave me that. I don't know why, but just being with him brought me back to myself. He opened places in my heart that I thought were dead. But maybe I am being warned to be careful, to not be so grateful to him and have so much desire to be with him, that I repeat the same pattern. He developed feelings for me, the real me, so maybe this is a warning to allow things to happen naturally, that if I act from the old position of strength I will drive him away. So maybe I shouldn't squish her, but at least rein her in
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S

seeker

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I think it might also be telling me that it can be a fine line between being myself and imposing my will, and I need to be careful not to cross it.
 

jte

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"An example of a 44 moment: someone who has a purely rational world-view encounters the workings of the I Ching for the first time."

"Maybe, but I bet the Yi wouldn't give that person 44 if they chose to consult. lol "

This reminds me of an anecdote, in college I had a girlfriend (not Malia, who I've written about here before, but another one) who asked the Yi precisely one question - the answer she got was 44 unchanging (Legge translation).

She never told me what she had asked or what she thought about the answer - whether she believed it or not or what she thought it meant. But she didn't seem particularly pleased with the answer.

She wasn't a rationalist - she believed in things like psychic abilities/ESP.

- Jeff
 

dobro p

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"I am normally a very strong person, but when I fall in love, I tend to subjigate myself so as to hold on to the other person. Could this be a warning not to do that, to hold on to who I really am???"

I don't think it's a warning. I think it's emerging self-knowledge. Now you know that you defer to someone when you're falling in love with them (natural) but that your natural strength emerges later on (natural) and then problems arise when the other person sees a 'new' you (natural).

Here's my take on marriage. On a superficial level, marriage is about love and communication and commitment and sex and sex and sex (hey, I'm a guy) and companionship and mutual support. On a deeper level it's about getting together with someone you can love enough to stick with, cuz buttons are gonna get pushed inevitably. In fact, the person you fall in love with is *exactly the person who can later on push your buttons better than other people*. When those buttons continue to get pushed (marriage means sticking together, so the buttons continue to get pushed), you have three options.

1 Stay and endure. Hey, we have good times, we have bad times. The good times outnumber the bad times. I'm staying.

2 Leave. Hey, we have bad times and we have good times. I'm sorry, but the bad times outnumber the good times, and I never quite recover before it all hits the fan again.

3 Stay and learn. Hey, we have good times and bad times and that's natural. Marriage isn't about pleasure and good times. It's a pressure cooker that shows me myself. Stop blaming the other person. It's not part of their job description to make me happy.

As for Hex 44 cropping up as your second hexagram in these situations...well, I don't believe in second hexagrams lol. I don't think it's an issue. What are the primary hexagrams?
 

martin

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Hi Seeker,

Yes, I was thinking something similar but didn't post it yet because I couldn't find the right (English) words.
As you say, there is a fine line between being yourself and imposing your will.
The power and strength that comes with being who we really are is no problem. It is beautiful and people will generally not cease loving us when we manifest it. Rather on the contrary.
But when we impose our will, intrude into the space of others and don't allow them to be who _they_ really are there will of course be problems.
So it's important to know and feel the difference.
 

martin

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Hey Dobro, you don't believe in second hexagrams?
Nice to meet you, I don't believe in lines!
Lol.
 
S

seeker

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Well, admittedly I often don't pay much attention to the resulting hex as I tend to see them as the result or outcome, and I am not supposed to be worrying about that
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I only focused on this one because it repeated a couple of times.

The lines on the other hand, I tend to concentrate on them most of all. I think the major action lies there, as often they can change the entire feeling of the hex. Even 29 can have a positive spin depending on the lines. And sometimes a negative process can result in a positive outcome.

I appreciate everyones input, especially as I think this is usually the kind of discussion they have at the other forum. But the discussions there tend to be a bit more advanced and I sometimes don't understand. I am still getting the basics and discussing a particular hex in depth like this is very useful. I hope this helps other newbies as much as it does me. As long as no one minds, I will keep posting for particular hexagrams which I have difficulty with. It just helps a lot in making sense of it all.
 

dobro p

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"Hey Dobro, you don't believe in second hexagrams?
Nice to meet you, I don't believe in lines!
Lol."

Okay, I'll start a thread, just for you and me.

Seeker - it's useful for me to think about this stuff - I get clear about what I think. I'm not a newbie to the oracle, but I'm a newbie to a better, clearer understanding.
 

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