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Spirits, Emotions, Dreams 62.3.5 > 45 What's going on?

poised

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Since ending the business/personal relationship with J about 40 days ago , we’ve had no contact. I’ve avoided him, successfully, though we live in the same building. Still, a certain level of enmeshment exists.

For the past six weeks, I’ve been digging deep into myself, centering, seeking, reading, going to groups, seeing a counselor, shedding the appropriate tears. Did a Tibetan Buddhist “feeding your demons” process, which identified a wolf that was eating my solar plexus (soul) as something to deal with. J has an inner wolf he told me about many times, so I thought it was him. Did some exercises to release tension in my solar plexus area to detach that connection.

Two nights ago, my mother arrived in a dream. We’d had a tenuous relationship while she was alive and this is the first time she’s showed up in a good way. Felt supportive to me. Yesterday, I worked with archetypical mother images and enjoyed it immensely. I printed out a lovely picture of Yemaya, (Our Lady of Regla or Our Lady, Star of the Sea) which I put on my nightstand. Mother Goddess of blue oceans and their creatures among other things. Felt really happy.

AND THEN, early this morning, I dreamed of being underwater with a huge menacing sea turtle swimming over me, a turtle with a long crocodile snout. Circling like a predator. Chilling, ominous, terrifying. My cat may have felt it, as he jumped onto the bed, possibly to alert me. This dream may have occurred as J walked past my window toward his parking place.

The turtle is J’s totem animal, has carved and beaded turtles all over his apartment and on his desk at work.

What’s the dream about?
62.3.5 > 45

Lise says of 62.3 “: Not passing, (but) on guard. Someone might follow and injure him. Pitfall.

J wants to hurt me?

I would be able to dismiss the whole thing except for this ominous line, which is just is ominous in every version of Yi I can find.

And Bradford comes even closer to my feelings: "Some are indeed out to get him: there is a food chain here, full of useful predators. He now wants the eyes of a predator’s prey, to watch his own back and loose ends.”

62.5 is a mystery to me. Lise says, “Shrouding clouds, no rain from our Western fields. The duke hits with a string-arrow over there in a cave.
If you have an intuition but nothing concrete, nothing conscious, then act with caution, but don’t refrain from all action. Try something, make a guess, everything is better than freezing. You may hit upon it, but if you get paralyzed, you will stay stuck.”

I am working on getting unstuck. But I'm not seeing that aspect in the dream.

On meng’s interesting 2009 thread about 62, http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?8357-62-and-bad-luck/page2 jilt wrote at post #18, “In my experience 62 also has to do with transcendental experiences and all kinds of psychic communications, anyway, so it appeared in some cases to me. ….”

Any and all thoughts would be most appreciated.
:bows:
:bows:
:bows:
 
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anemos

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What’s the dream about?
62.3.5 > 45

maybe...

those two hex have in common the "safe base" imaginary. Also the mother figure and turtle are symbols of motherhood; different facets yet the same root. Ambivalence is a word comes in mind. Feels like something is left unattended , out of sight ;something that the lack of it makes things difficult so one moves in the dark due to that missing part.
Not sure if its about J. To me seems an inner state. Maybe the turtle knows. What its her symbolism and Why she tries to attack would be something I would try to figure out, if it were my dream.

just a thought
 
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rodaki

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hey poised,



In my experience, 62.3 has been a line of intense anxiety, manifesting as being hyper-vigilant, sometimes with good but, mostly, with no real good reason. 62 dwells on small things yet the advice out of it, is to not fly too high, not get too far carried away by what you think you see - keep it grounded, iow.
My own experiences have shown me that, rarely do others willingly play a role in our inner realities - we bring them in, their totems, symbols et al to give form to our own darker thoughts and in this way find our path through . . I'd be extra careful traversing such territory


gather up - there's no need of weapons in that inner lake of yours - that 's what 45 reads like to me

take care!
 
B

blue_angel

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Hi,

Maybe it will be helpful if we explore what's been happening in your daily life, your dreams, and then your reading to see if it all ties in together. I noticed some interesting things that may or may not put you at ease
and give you some insight.

Sometimes our dreams are warnings but a lot
of times they are our subconscious way of working out what is going on in our daily life. Trying to make sense of it all, or issues we have not dealt with but are still there. I think your dreams may be connected in a way.

If use dream translations, to dream of your mother can represent the mothering qualities in yourself. Your nurturing, caring, patient, protective, understanding qualities. How those qualities may need to be used in your waking life. On the other hand, when you dream of
someone it can mean whatever qualities you
possess of that person has changed, or that
part of you has died. Now you felt good about
the dream so you print out a picture of the
goddess of the ocean. The next morning you
dream of being in the ocean. That can be the connection. Your subconscious making sense of your day. But to explore what dreaming of the ocean represents... the ocean represents your emotional state, how you feel in the ocean can represent how you feel in waking life. Also whether the ocean is calm, turbulent, murky, or clear can also represent your emotional state. Makes sense because as you shared, you have been digging deep, doing self work, which can be very intense and emotional.

The turtle you dreamed of, is not really a turtle at all, you thought it was but as you looked closer it had a snout of a crocodile. So sounds more like a type of sea monster. Especially since you were scared. To dream of a sea monster represents, going through emotional transformation. Which can be quite scary. What I have noticed with dreams is when they bother me the most, when they are very scary, they end up having some of the best meanings. These meanings really seem to connect with you. So now lets look at the reading.

What was the dream about? 62.3.5>45
In a sentence it would be, being excessive in your gatherings.

62- being excessive, possibly in your self work? Digging too deep too fast. These things must be done in moderation. One small task at a time. One issue, one emotion at a time, rest is need in between. Recovery.

Line 3- might be saying, (in an expression, not literally) you're killing yourself, you're going over the top. Don't do too much. Be more mothering with yourself. Protective, nurturing, patient. Or it could be about past issues you have not resolved with your mother, if you felt you must follow your mother of be severely injured/hurt.

Line 5- you've been doing everything you can to make self progress but it hasn't brought about the results you are hoping for. Give it time.

45- you've been gathering with many others, doing self work, this is good, continue to gather with like mind people and you will see progress and advance. Hopefully that helped a little. A lot of times when we are doing deep self work, we become on guard, looking at every little meaning, sometimes we look too deep, become defensive when there is no need. Our mind stops thinking clearly and we get muddled if you will. Not saying that's what's happening with you. I could be totally off here, but this is what I see. I do not think it was about J. Now if J has done something to hurt you before or you feel some kind of fear towards him that's justified, I would of course be careful, on guard, have some exit plans, but maybe do another reading. "What do I need to worry about J?" Or "do I need to worry about J
hurting me?"

Best wishes,

Blue_Angel
 
S

sooo

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This thread's a blast from the past. My present position is pretty similar to meng's here. I can not accept the mountain as being small; only the path across the mountain is small, and conspicuous, and therefore vulnerable. But nothing small about the experience is implied but the narrow path one must travel. And it's no wonder it's critical to keep a low profile there, and not to get ahead of yourself.
 
B

blue_angel

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I really enjoyed reading Meng's thread and I am very appreciative you linked it. I had to read it more than once, just because there was so much valuable information there and so many interesting views, plus I just love to see people come together, sharing themselves to help find solutions. I love this forum very much.

Enough of that, one thing that struck me was Bradford's "respect for forces or powers higher than ourselves" there are actually many things that struck me! However your dream is dealing with a higher force, rarely do we have control over our dreams. Your printing out "our lady of Regla" is dealing with a higher force, your deep self work "feeding your demons" a higher force, even iching.

So with that said, since you did dream of your mother, and I don't know what the background is with J. But sounds like there were issues with your mother when she was alive and there were issues with J. I'm not sure what all you have worked through in your counseling or groups, I
know you mentioned J. What if you actually need to work more on the
relationship you had with your mother and how that affected you,
perhaps the dreams are showing you that. Its possibly once you work on
those issues, you will also see how some of those issues may have
affected your relationship with J, and then you may feel untangled /
unstuck. Or maybe there is something small that you can learn about the
relationship you had with your mother that may have affected you in a
big way, the same lesson could repeat itself in your relationships, and
may have with J? I can actually read this as being a possibility in the lines.

Blue_Angel
 

anemos

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there was a period of time when 62 was coming frequently but was not able to comprehend fully, although in my mind I had a h62 image I had made long time ago. ( the one i post here) .



hex62-bw_zps3943e826.jpg


A friend who was there for me during that period asked me once " do you realize how big is that you are going through ?" . My first thought was :confused: "huh ??? , what big thing ?".

It wasn't easy for me to admit how vulnerable i was feeling. It was my cope mechanism to deal with the difficulties of those around to deal with it and support me, so the only thing i could do is to "show" i was brave and could handle it. H62 , to me, has to do a lot with survival, in a very primitive Darwian way. Survival of the fittest , where fittest is the one adapts better to the environment and its challenges.

Sometimes, we are like that paper boat and have to confront huge waves. Better stay in the harbor for awhile.
 

poised

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anemos, rodaki, blue-angel, sooo

I am so very grateful for your insights. I took a few days off, did other things, thought other thoughts. Interesting that your ideas seem to coincide with my "overwhelmed" feeling.

anemos said,
"To me seems an inner state. Maybe the turtle knows. What its her symbolism and Why she tries to attack would be something I would try to figure out, if it were my dream."

Similarly, rodaki wrote:
"...intense anxiety, manifesting as being hyper-vigilant, sometimes with good but, mostly, with no real good reason...rarely do others willingly play a role in our inner realities - we bring them in, their totems, symbols et al to give form to our own darker thoughts"

Indeed, I am and J is hyper-vigilant, he more than I, I think. My anxiety level is usually pretty well managed, but arises in dreams, when ego is not managing. I also wondered whether I was trying to drive off his inner tortoise by attaching a crock snout to mine as a "stay away from me" threat.

Blue_Angel brought in the mother imagery:
to dream of your mother can represent the mothering qualities in yourself. Your nurturing, caring, patient, protective, understanding qualities. How those qualities may need to be used in your waking life

Gives rise to extremely complex issues, as neither J nor I had wonderful mothers. I was sort of nurturing to J, perhaps giving that up is what's so very painful for me. Perhaps protecting that part of myself is why I "borrowed" his turtle image with it's strong shell. Wish I really could grow an exoskeleton.

Line 3- might be saying, (in an expression, not literally) you're killing yourself, you're going over the top. Don't do too much. Be more mothering with yourself. Protective, nurturing, patient. Or it could be about past issues you have not resolved with your mother, if you felt you must follow your mother of be severely injured/hurt.

Digging deep, Blue_Angel, to find a way to nurture myself. Dizzying, literally, to find a way to view that challenge other than the usual, "pull yourself together." Both my sister and I refer to our mother as "Mommie Dearest." How like her to show up in a dream exactly when I couldn't possibly deal with more complications. Things like that happen all the time in families with alcoholic parents. They always manage to die on your birthday or Christmas (my dad). The best my mother could do was Valentine's day. I know this sounds horribly nasty of me, but I've spent years going to Adult Children of Alcoholics meetings, was editorial director of a company that published books in the field. I'm an expert...like being an expert at bubonic plague.

J had a similar background, works in the addiction field as a therapist. We both thought we knew how it worked. But it's crazier than either of us knew.

Perhaps I need to forgive and let go. Of everyone and everything, is how it feels right now.

sooo commented on 62:
only the path across the mountain is small, and conspicuous, and therefore vulnerable. But nothing small about the experience is implied but the narrow path one must travel. And it's no wonder it's critical to keep a low profile there, and not to get ahead of yourself.

Thanks, sooo, Trying to keep it simple, keep speculation to a minimum, but find that very difficult. Peeling the layers of the onion, when I'd rather put it in the autochop thing.

anemos spoke of 62 and posted that fabulous picture:
A friend who was there for me during that period asked me once " do you realize how big is that you are going through ?" . My first thought was "huh ??? , what big thing ?".

It wasn't easy for me to admit how vulnerable i was feeling. It was my cope mechanism to deal with the difficulties of those around to deal with it and support me, so the only thing i could do is to "show" i was brave and could handle it. H62 , to me, has to do a lot with survival, in a very primitive Darwian way. Survival of the fittest , where fittest is the one adapts better to the environment and its challenges.


I am feeling vulnerable and wish I were as brave as I want everyone to think I am. Raise the "I'm Fine" flag (F'd up, Insecure, Neurotic, Emotional).

Your beautiful little boat in the safe harbor is your original work? Amazing and wonderfully apropos.

I had another dream last night about J, a totally black, glossy black dream, I'm going from place to place in the dark looking for something, very attractive people dressed in black are giving me directions, when suddenly J enters the scene from the right side, all dressed in white. He sees me, "Hi, how'ya doing?" I am pierced with pain and anxiety, go to an even darker room, but decide to go out and see him. He's gone when I emerge, people say, "He went to the bluff." "He always goes to the bluff when he's looking for someone." I wake up, heart pumping hard, breathless with anxiety.

He's bluffing? I asked Y this morning, what he's going through:

52.3 > 23

Sounds like what I'm going through as well.
:bows:
:bows:
:bows:
 

meganj

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Hi I just wanted to add my two cents..
In my culture which is traditional woodlands Cree native culture.. I have been told that a turtle is meant to signify friendship.. And water -chaos.. It seems your J is the friendly predator encircling you in your chaos..

All in all I think the central theme or idea of this post is centred around J, and realistically you need to just let go.. Stop thinking of dream representations, and what they mean.. Because they don't mean nothing, you just want them to mean something. There's not need to look for answers, just see the reality of the situation and move on with your life.
 

anemos

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I am feeling vulnerable and wish I were as brave as I want everyone to think I am. Raise the "I'm Fine" flag (F'd up, Insecure, Neurotic, Emotional).

Your beautiful little boat in the safe harbor is your original work? Amazing and wonderfully apropos.

yes, I made it. its a digital collage and painting.. and the paper boat says " You know, now I'm vulnerable !" It takes a brave little boat to say that ...

I know that flag and the superman's costume , but sometimes its too tight and doesn't let you breath...
 

moss elk

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Dear Poised,
I noticed that in the first sentence of your intial post you used the term "business/personal relationship"
Later on you mentioned "I was sort of nurturing to J" and "shedding the appropriate tears"

This makes me wonder, was this not a "Business/Love" relationship?
And if so, shouldn't its ending be mourned as such?

Legge: The image of thunder above a hill forms Small Powers. The superior man, in accordance with this, in his conduct exceeds in humility, in mourning exceeds in sorrow, and in his expenditure exceeds in economy.

I know that I myself frantically tried really freakin' hard to make painful feelings go away after a break-up, and it didn't really help me. It just left me an exahuasted and anxious, twitching puddle of a person on my couch.

Wilhelm/Baynes:preponderance of the Small. Success. Perseverance furthers. Small things may be done; great things should not be done. The flying bird brings the message: It is not well to strive upward, it is well to remain below. Great good fortune.

I hope this is helpful.
 

poised

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This makes me wonder, was this not a "Business/Love" relationship?
And if so, shouldn't its ending be mourned as such?

Hi Moss Elk, indeed, after the love has gone, one turns into a "puddle of a person" on the couch. Great expression! I shed a million tears.

This was once a Relationship, then a relationship, then nothing. I've been twisting out of it for almost a year, and can hardly believe the progress I've made since starting this thread more than two weeks ago. It has been painful, very, but now I've mostly "Gathered" (45) my wits about me again, see the situation much more clearly, see myself and also J much more clearly. Altogether, it's been a learning experience.

The flying bird brings the message: It is not well to strive upward, it is well to remain below. Great good fortune.

I now realize that I was the one attaching the crocodile snout to that turtle....having found my "inner gator," a protector, at an "inner guide" group last week. Inner anaconda as well. Very soothing. It felt very much like "remaining below" with the primal reptiles and amphibians (feelings).

And as you mentioned, great things are not getting done while I am engaged in clearing my emotions. Achieving nothing in the outer world; I just had to experience it out.

I'm still avoiding him, not ready for a face-to-face. I can probably avoid him all the time, but there is a certain amount of energy tied up in that. Better if I really honestly don't react to him emotionally if we bump into each other. I have days when I think I won't, but not willing to test it yet. THAT would be "great good fortune."

Thanks again, Moss Elk
:bows:
:bows:
:bows:
I
 

poised

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anemos, your primitive

imagery was spot on:
H62 , to me, has to do a lot with survival, in a very primitive Darwian way. Survival of the fittest , where fittest is the one adapts better to the environment and its challenges.

Amazing, really...attended an "inner guide" workshop last week, the guides that appeared for me were a huge anaconda and an enormous "bull" gator. Anaconda was beautiful, wrapped herself around me while I was in a chair, around and around until her face was level with mine...and as large as mine. "I'll get you through this," she hissed. The wrapping was protective, not threatening. It was like sitting in the middle of piled-up inner tubes. Safe. The gator waddled in later, very macho. Made me laugh, clearly my ex husband who died a decade ago. "I'll never let you get hurt," he promised me. So there he was.

I'm not sure whether any of this would have appeared had you not called it forth for me....or perhaps you sensed it around me, or more properly, in the hexagram.
:bows:
 
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anemos

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let's say it was a lucky guess ;)

thanks for the feedback. Seems you are in a nice company , you and yourselves
 

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