Understanding hex 18 unchanging

flashlight · Dec 4, 2013

Hi all,

I feel I'm imposing in seeking your teaching again (it's a learning and growing phase!) and I apologize for not contributing to readings yet, but I don't feel I have enough competence to so, it wouldn't be fair to querents.

The Yi kind 'a took the wind out of my sails with this 18 unchanging. I gave a short talk tonight for which I had prepared and rehearsed and by all measures it went well. It is not something that comes easily to me, but over the years I have learned. The visuals were high impact and did the trick, I didn't ramble or speak too quickly, and I ended on time. The audience seemed to react well and asked a few apt questions.

I came home a bit tired, but happy with myself. So while dinner was on the stove, I asked Yi, "Please assess my performance tonight."

It replied 18 unchanging. I've run into that hex before, and it made sense - something that needed to be worked on, letting go of old patterns and so on. But here we have a positive situation and a positive outcome, so I can't "see" what the Yi could be warning me about.

Hilary, in the sequence says:
"Corruption follows from Hexagram 17, Following.
‘Following people with joy means there are things to be done, and so Corruption follows. Corruption means things to be done.’
I can understand 17 here, as I've recently begun this professional collaboration, which led to being asked to give this talk. It's all been positive so far. 18 unsettles me. I'm just starting to come out of a long dark tunnel so words like corruption or decay don't help build a sense of safety or optimism about things I am trying to build for my life.

Was I just too flip in getting home, turning on the PC and asking Yi for a pat on the back?

Thanks for your help :hugs:

"

Lilly-La · Dec 4, 2013

Hi there,

why did you ask the Yi:

flashlight said:
"Please assess my performance tonight." "

if you did already know and were pleased and even optimistic? For what do you need assessment / confirmation?
Let me put it this way (no offence taken pls): kids need confirmation, youngsters do, but not adults

You done a great job - enjoy :bounce:

flashlight · Dec 5, 2013

I like your bouncing green martian!
More seriously, to answer your question, normally I'd agree with you, keeping in mind nevertheless that perceptions can differ (we think we come across as X, but someone else may perceive Y and being open to different views is a wise thing). Even senior managers like to hear "nice job!" and annual performance reviews exist for a reason.
But sometimes people get put through the wringer so much for so long that their self-confidence gets bruised, they second-guess themselves where they'd might not ordinarily because their optimism has been dashed once too many times. I'm happy for you if you've been spared such difficult experiences. (And no offense taken).

Tim K · Dec 5, 2013

I agree with lilly

You done a great job - enjoy

In Huang's book hex 18 is named 'Work'.
It says - good work buddy! Continue to work in this way.

I'm just starting to come out of a long dark tunnel

Yes of course, you are resolving your problems, you are working on them (on Managing Decay, Corruption that was troubling you), continue!

Trojina · Dec 5, 2013

There's a whole series of threads on people's actual experiences with unchanging hexagrams

here is 18

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...eriences-with-Unchanging-Castings-Hexagram-18

flashlight · Dec 5, 2013

I had looked at that thread -- and could relate to the "3 days to put together a cupboard" part!
I guess my stumble with 18 on this question is a question of tense (past-present-future). My understanding is that unchanging hexes portray the current situation, one which can last a bit. And 18 doesn't refer to terribly happy energies (decay, corruption... ). My question was narrow, referred to a just finished positive I believe one-shot event. To consider it more broadly, it took place within the context of this new professional collaboration. 18 unch made me question whether there was anything I should be aware of about that, since, to me, it was a curious answer to my question. Learning....

How many days would it take to put together the chair?

Trojina · Dec 5, 2013

I had looked at that thread -- and could relate to the "3 days to put together a cupboard" part!
I guess my stumble with 18 on this question is a question of tense (past-present-future). My understanding is that unchanging hexes portray the current situation, one which can last a bit. And 18 doesn't refer to terribly happy energies (decay, corruption... ). My question was narrow, referred to a just finished positive I believe one-shot event. To consider it more broadly, it took place within the context of this new professional collaboration. 18 unch made me question whether there was anything I should be aware of about that, since, to me, it was a curious answer to my question

Unchanging hexagrams have no fixed meaning so they don't have to portray the present but I agree with others here. In answer to your specific question it would seem to be saying that you worked at correcting something. It's giving you a picture of what you did. I don't think there is a warning here..since as you say it's a narrow specific question. It is always worth reading the Image for unchanging hexes, they seem to hold the clue. Not sure what it is for hex 18. I mean it doesn't look like you can rest on your laurels but your efforts are good so keep on keeping on.

Trojina · Dec 5, 2013

....and whilst I'm not saying consulting Yi via the computer is no good, I really think that learning to cast with coins or marbles is a good idea for questions you are more serious about. Also people who cast via the computer often have no idea what changing lines are or how they change into the relating hexagram which must totally limit their understanding.

If I have an issue I really want help with I don't do it on the internet. I switch computer off and use coins or marbles as it gives proper time and space to connect with the I Ching and settle in your own mind, to focus.

Trojina · Dec 5, 2013

Oh and BTW if you feel like it maybe you'd put your example here on that 18uc thread. it would be good to have the Ikea joke there anyway

flashlight · Dec 5, 2013

trojan said:
Oh and BTW if you feel like it maybe you'd put your example here on that 18uc thread. it would be good to have the Ikea joke there anyway

Yeah, no pb - how do I do that, just copy paste the whole thing?

And I do also use coins (I have 3 old ones just for that purpose) -- but I'll admit to taking the quicker route these days as free time is nearly non-existent. And my cat and I always get into a tussle when I do use them -- he likes to play hockey.....

flashlight · Dec 5, 2013

Done!
(phew, that was easier than I thought

)

Trojina · Dec 5, 2013

No, I just meant when you feel you know what the 18uc was saying to you here just sum it up on the 18uc thread....which is just an ordinary thread. But not until you are ready....maybe right now you are still thinking about it.

cats regularly participate on these forums when their owners are at work or in bed....dogs too. I don't know how they get hold of their owner's login details but they do....

flashlight · Dec 5, 2013

And I like this one too.
It should be titled "Life"!

Trojina · Dec 5, 2013

Ah you already did it...great job

linking was a good idea

flashlight · Dec 5, 2013

trojan said:
No, I just meant when you feel you know what the 18uc was saying to you here just sum it up on the 18uc thread....which is just an ordinary thread. But not until you are ready....maybe right now you are still thinking about it.

Oops, I copied the last bit along with the Ikea image... I'll go edit!

I am continuing to ponder. The sense i'm getting is a nudge to look at the bigger pix and not just the initial narrow question of "how did I do?". So I asked what should I know about collaborating with these people (whom I just recently met)?
And Yi answered 38.1.2.3 > 56, which actually makes sense to me, save for 38.3 (and I read through everything on this site about 38.3, apparently, it's a tough line to grasp). And that reading sort of confirmed to me the initial one was saying "hey, you did fine, but that's not what you should be asking about, dig around on context." Dunno. Feels right to me. Might be all wrong. Learning...

Yi is giving me enough food for thought these days I can skip dinner...

cats regularly participate on these forums when their owners are at work or in bed....dogs too. I don't know how they get hold of their owner's login details but they do....

Don't get me started on my animals...They are an epic in and of themselves!

Trojina · Dec 5, 2013

My first feeling on 38.1.2.3>56 is be careful......hex 56 shows you as if travelling in a strange land needing to adapt to the present environment rather than insist it adapt to you. 38 may show you have really different priorities and goals...which is okay as long as you don't try to mesh at a deep level.

38.1 shows it's okay to deal with these people although they may seem not especially nice...38.2 a chance to get some key information or a key connection that smooths things along....38.3 emabarrasment, difficulty, that is overcome.

I mean my overall impression is this is an awkward situation, not socially comfortable, but one can get by by not making oneself too prominent (hex 56) and not expecting everyone is on the same page (hex 38). You need to be aware they are seeing things very differently to you...or rather what you want and what they want aren't the same.

Looking at the change patterns the change lines make (here 11 is yang pattern, 12 yin...) it looks like a kind of strong current of energy sweeps you into the situation but in making your way through it you find your aims not wholly understood or appreciated. In 38.1 there are 'hateful people'...in hex 12 there are those who don't have good aims....so in such a climate overall I think you may need to be fairly cautious, not over ambitious in making an influence....It looks to me like you need to pick your way through an area you aren't too familiar with (hex 56) That connection in 38.2 is helpful however.

flashlight · Dec 5, 2013

Thank you, Trojan, for taking the time to think about this reading and offer your thoughts.

I am being cautious. These are new contacts, the "human" connection is not what I'd call instantaneous as it can be with some people (which is probably a good thing for me, because when I feel that rapid ease, whatever cautiousness I can call up flies out the window! I really **don't like** having to muster caution, its not part of my character). There are mutual interests - they need my expertise, and I sure can use the business that they can bring me.

The 56 is not as ominous as it sounds. It's not me traveling in an unfamiliar area. It is 56 in its purest form - travelling. These folks travel a lot, the projects are international, and team members are in various countries.

What I've already figured out in a few meetings is I need to set boundaries. One of them has shown signs of managing my participation as if I were staff -- and I'm not, he is neither my boss nor the end client; he needs my competence, he brings me contacts, he gets a nice finders fee. Finances have been tough, I need the work, so I need to show flexibility, be a team player, do what is necessary to develop business (free work, nothing new) while at the same time not let him transform my business model or take over my schedule, which does involve my other clients. So yeah, there are common interests, self interests, differing ways of doing things, but that can also forment creativity. Over time, I'll see which boundaries I have to set implicitly and which I have to make clear.
Don't like your 38.1 hateful people and 12 not good aims people... breeds discomfort... can't see yet why that would be the case. No one would gain by being or behaving that way.
Keeping my eyes peeled (gosh, that uses up energy I don't have at this point!)

Trojina · Dec 6, 2013

The 56 is not as ominous as it sounds. It's not me traveling in an unfamiliar area. It is 56 in its purest form - travelling. These folks travel a lot, the projects are international, and team members are in various countries.

What I've already figured out in a few meetings is I need to set boundaries

I haven't said 56 was ominous... I never say any hexagrams are ominous. I still think the 56 refers to your role in the situation not theirs as you asked what you needed to know about collaborating with them.

Don't like your 38.1 hateful people and 12 not good aims people... breeds discomfort... can't see yet why that would be the case. No one would gain by being or behaving that way.

It's not my 'hateful people' in 38.1 it's the words of the I Ching,,,from Hilarys book which you have don't you

".Regrets vanish. Lost horse: don't pursue it, it returns of itself. See hateful people - no mistake."

I mean that's the actual translation. That doesn't mean they behave a particular way.... but there is unease for some reason. You are taking my words too literally..Hex 12 is only the yin change pattern so you don't have to take that into account but I see this scenario as one you are travelling in and one that you can't exactly force an agenda in, though you can still progess but need more of a sympathetic link with which you seem to get in 38.2. 38.3 can really mean egg on your face so I don't see it that you are in a particularly strong position in terms of their need for you. Yes this may be a creative connection but it is potentially awkward.

flashlight · Dec 6, 2013

trojan said:
It's not my 'hateful people' in 38.1 it's the words of the I Ching,,,from Hilarys book which you have don't you

I mean that's the actual translation. That doesn't mean they behave a particular way.... but there is unease for some reason. You are taking my words too literally..Hex 12 is only the yin change pattern so you don't have to take that into account but I see this scenario as one you are travelling in and one that you can't exactly force an agenda in, though you can still progess but need more of a sympathetic link with which you seem to get in 38.2. 38.3 can really mean egg on your face so I don't see it that you are in a particularly strong position in terms of their need for you. Yes this may be a creative connection but it is potentially awkward.

Sorry, Trojan, I should be more specific in my phrasing. I was well aware that your reference to "hateful people" and such was Hilary's translation of the Yi.

Yes, there is an awkwardness in the energies so far. I'll have to see how it evolves. I'd prefer to feel a real human connection (kindred spirits and all that), but perhaps it is best I don't as that can help me maintain awareness and caution. I'm perfectly happy being a cog in this wheel (project wise); with everything else going on in my life, I've neither the strength nor the energy to take on a leadership role as I am wont to do usually. We'll see...

Lilly-La · Dec 6, 2013

Sun, the wind and 'doubting'

Hi flashlight,

flashlight said:
I'm happy for you if you've been spared such difficult experiences.

i have not and got Hex 18 too in my life. So i know what you are talking about otherwise i would not have replied to your question.

18 is the combination of the soft/gentle Sun (the wind, sometimes tree) below and the (sometimes rigid) mountain above. Sun´s (if its meaning is wind) first line stands for a dissolving act. This can be dissolving tensions or something which got hardened. BUT it as well can mean doubts (see Hex 57 first line). Doubts can creep in and dissolve ones true position or will. In Wilhelm´s I ching book with commentaries you find a great quote which i can not translate propperly but perhaps somebody else can if you do not own the book yourself.
"The noble one always resides where he belongs. He always comes into his own possession." (57.1)

To me the Yi did not tell you to do some more work but did simply present your internal or learned reaction.

Sorry for my humble english is not my native language - best lilly :bows:

(Sun first line is yin, soft - with 2 yang (strong) lines above. This soft line can slowly 'dissolve' the yang lines above

. Mountain: strong line above, sometimes rigid :duh:

against the soft lines below. If you like to learn more about Sun read as well 44.1 - another line creeping in and should be controlled.)

flashlight · Dec 6, 2013

Your English is wonderful, Lilly, have no doubt about that. You explain things well. The image of the mountain "sitting on" a whisp of a tree does describe how I have been feeling for some time.

To me the Yi did not tell you to do some more work but did simply present your internal or learned reaction.

That's the thing though. Frequent self-doubt / needing a reality check is not natural to me. It's recent, because there have been too many instances of going forth with optimism and trust, only to have things fall apart or happen in very sudden and damaging ways. I'm slowly working my way back to me/strength.

flashlight · Dec 13, 2013

Bit of an update on this 18 UC and 58.1.2.3>56 whatchamacallit...

Had been asked to put in a proposal for a project, the scope and estimated budget had already been basically pre-approved, 3 meetings had been held (I in person, 2 by conf call). Decision was to be made at the start of this week.
Since I had no news, I sent a short email yesterday. No response.
Saw the person on Skype, said hello, he responded hello, I asked how the project plans were coming along, no response.
Hmmm. The exchanges so far had been rapid fire, lots of things :stir:

Asked the Yi "so what's up?" 59 uc -- could well be dispersing in the sense they are all over the place with the end of year rush, or dispersed in their decision making, or ?
"What should I do about it?" 3 uc. Yeah, sprouting can be tough, esp in winter, the ground is hard. I'll put it on the back burner for now.
Overall, though, to me, pretty consistent with the atmosphere around the earlier readings, no?

Understanding hex 18 unchanging

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

Supporter

visitor

Attachments

Supporter

Supporter

Supporter

visitor

visitor

Supporter

visitor

Attachments

Supporter

visitor

Supporter

visitor

Supporter

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor