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A LOVE question H2,3.3.4 cganging to 32 - need a little help understanding

lilita

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I asked Yi about a relationship with a male friend... We've been seeing each other periodically for 2 years now. We're very close, but there are many obstacles preventing us from having a serious full-on relationship, which I've decided not to go into here. I love him and want to move forward, but I've realized that it's going to take time. I'm willing to take it slow, but I wonder sometimes if he's really capable of giving me what I want. So I finally asked Yi if it will EVER happen! A scary question to ask, because of course I want so much for the answer to be YES!
I got Hex2, lines 2,3, and 4... changing to 32. It looks positive-ish. However, I could read it 2 ways... and this comes down to what a "relating" hexagram's role is in a reading. Discounting the meaning of the lines for a moment, If the answer means H2 LEADING to H32 - responsiveness, openness leading to duration I think that would mean a big yes! But if the meaning of the relating hexagram is the place I'm coming from in asking the question - i.e. a very long time waiting - enduring in my desire - that seems to change the meaning for me. Especially since the lines, while not exactly contradictory, are a little ambiguous.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this! Thank you...
 
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Tim K

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Dash Berlin - Till the sky falls down:
"
All I need is one good answer,
To understand why you are gone,
Everything reminds me of you,
Without you I can't go on

I'll be waiting,
Till the sky falls down
Till you come around, baby"


You will have to wait and persevere for a long time, nothing else to do, maybe even wait for a next life, because the question was about 'ever'.

Individual lines give us:
2.4 -> 16 wait for the next cycle
2.3 -> 15 wait humbly
2.2 -> 7 be straight and sincere, don't assume anything

Transitional method gives:
2.2 -> 7.3(Organised force) -> 46.4(Ascending) -> 32(Persevering)

Wilhelm, 2.2:
The Receptive accommodates itself to the qualities of the Creative and makes them its own. Thus a square develops out of a straight line and a cube out of a square. This is compliance with the laws of the Creative; nothing is taken away, nothing added. Therefore the Receptive has no need of a special purpose of its own, nor of any effort' yet everything turns out as it should.
Everything will come into place on it's own accord. (Not necessary what you want now)

7.3 -> 46, Crowley: 3. Divided counsel - inefficiency!
Daniels: 3. Leadership is lacking, resulting in failure.

You need to organize your thoughts, stop the chaos, the real leader will emerge from obscurity.
Mixed signals in your head will lead to nothing, you need a clarity of purpose.
46 speaks about higher things (for me), seeing a great man (your higher-self).

If you allow your divine-self to lead you, 46.4 -> 32
"The king offers to him Mount Ch'i. Good fortune. No error." (Wilhelm)
It will offer you and guide you to what you really need.
 

Tim K

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If you listen close, your higher self will say:

I,
I see a picture,
An image of such fullness
Painted in your heart

And I,
I see a future,
So bright,
You could only feel it within your soul

No matter how hard it seems to be
You can put your trust in me
I'll be right by your side
(And I'll show you)

I,
I see the freedom,
A safety net where you can find your inner voice

And I,
I see a flame inside,
So bright,
And it will light your way back home


Hearts connected, again
Hearts connected.

Hearts connected, again
In the midst of the pouring rain.
Hearts connected,
Just when you least expect it!


Lyrics from Cathy Burton - "Hearts connected".

Now i've a good feeling about my answer :)
 
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blue_angel

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What Ashteroid shared is beautiful. I see your answer saying there is not a for sure answer on what will happen at this time, you will have to wait and see.

(2)- be receptive

In the lines, be obvious with what you desire.
However, go with the flow, let it unfold
naturally how it will. Work on yourself, and being your best self. Wait it out.

32- you will have to endure, I see it as a possibility of an enduring relationship, but the lines seem clear that you will have to allow it to take its natural course.

Blue_Angel
 

Trojina

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We're very close, but there are many obstacles preventing us from having a serious full-on relationship, which I've decided not to go into here. I love him and want to move forward, but I've realized that it's going to take time. I'm willing to take it slow, but I wonder sometimes if he's really capable of giving me what I want. So I finally asked Yi if it will EVER happen!

it sounds like what you are really saying here is that he is married, has a family or is already in a long term relationship and you are his mistress/bit on the side, whatever you wanna call it and he's telling you to wait till the time is right for him to leave.


If you fall for that old line and hang around waitng that would be foolish.

Any reading of mine wouldn't count since I think if people want to be together they get together. As soon as people start saying it's 'complicated' and he has to to wait and all that malarkey it's clear they are being played/playing themselves along.


What is it you think you are waiting for ? His kids to grow up ? His wife to die ?


Okay I could be wrong about the circumstances. Sorry if that is the case.

ETA you already said you are just friends, so you aren't his mistress, apologies. My reading below remains the same. I think Rosada says it best here. See further down
 
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Trojina

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I asked Yi about a relationship with a male friend... We've been seeing each other periodically for 2 years now. We're very close, but there are many obstacles preventing us from having a serious full-on relationship, which I've decided not to go into here. I love him and want to move forward, but I've realized that it's going to take time. I'm willing to take it slow, but I wonder sometimes if he's really capable of giving me what I want. So I finally asked Yi if it will EVER happen! A scary question to ask, because of course I want so much for the answer to be YES!
I got Hex2, lines 2,3, and 4... changing to 32. It looks positive-ish. However, I could read it 2 ways... and this comes down to what a "relating" hexagram's role is in a reading. Discounting the meaning of the lines for a moment, If the answer means H2 LEADING to H32 - responsiveness, openness leading to duration I think that would mean a big yes! But if the meaning of the relating hexagram is the place I'm coming from in asking the question - i.e. a very long time waiting - enduring in my desire - that seems to change the meaning for me. Especially since the lines, while not exactly contradictory, are a little ambiguous.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this! Thank you...


hang on let me attempt to go with the reading. Hex 2 doesn't lead to 32 as the future and only the future. I'd see 32 as the overall context of the reading, including past present, the ongoing situation. I'd think hex 32 here means things going on pretty much as they have been. If you are happy with that and happy going on with any deception in the situation (if there is any) then you'll carry on. Overall I wouldn't expect a huge amount of dynamic change with this situation. It looks relatively stable as it is if you don't rock the boat, but I don't see much forward progess. If you want things to stay as they are then it's a possibly a more fortunate cast.
 

rosada

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Will your relationship ever move forward?

What if your guardian angel appeared and told you, "This is as good, as close, as it gets," would you still want to continue with the friendship? Cause that's what I think 2.2.3.4 - 32 is telling you your attitude should be:

2.2 Be here now. This is it.
2.3 He may have things he needs to complete, but even if he could clear his calendar don't be living now under the assumption he would then give more to the relationship.
2.4 Don't create fantasies.

If what you have with him now is enough then the relationship will 32.Endure.

Of course this could all change, but in order for it to change, or in order for you to keep your sanity while you endure, it seems to me you need to steel your mind to the possibility that it may not and to find a way to be happy in the relationship as it stands now.
 
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blue_angel

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Hi,

I was so confused with you two (your answers), I kept going back to translations reading over again, to see it I could GET it. Then it clicked ... (I think) "enduring waiting"... as if what you are doing now, will be what is. And what you have been doing is indeed waiting. Trojan, just out of pure curiosity and learning, if her situation is that this guy is married, or taken, wouldn't she have received 54, 23, 33? Or something like that? And then if she was to be waiting forever why not receive 5? Have either you Trojan or Rosada experienced or seen others experience a reading that pertained to something of this nature that is not one of the obvious hexagram answers? If I'm even making sense. Or maybe I am not understanding your views. This is not really a debate, its for learning and
understanding. Sorry Lilita, I don't mean to
take over your thread, but I think being open
to others views, having a wider view helps in fully understanding Iching. So since this came up, I thought it was a perfect time to ask about it. I hope you are not offended, I do wish you the best, and hope you will come back and
share how your reading related to you.

Best wishes,

Blue_Angel
 

Trojina

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Hi,

I was so confused with you two (your answers), I kept going back to translations reading over again, to see it I could GET it. Then it clicked ... (I think) "enduring waiting"... as if what you are doing now, will be what is. And what you have been doing is indeed waiting. Trojan, just out of pure curiosity and learning, if her situation is that this guy is married, or taken, wouldn't she have received 54, 23, 33? Or something like that? And then if she was to be waiting forever why not receive 5? Have either you Trojan or Rosada experienced or seen others experience a reading that pertained to something of this nature that is not one of the obvious hexagram answers? If I'm even making sense. Or maybe I am not understanding your views. This is not really a debate, its for learning and
understanding. Sorry Lilita, I don't mean to
take over your thread, but I think being open
to others views, having a wider view helps in fully understanding Iching. So since this came up, I thought it was a perfect time to ask about it. I hope you are not offended, I do wish you the best, and hope you will come back and
share how your reading related to you.

Best wishes,

Blue_Angel


We can't predict what Yi's answers will be, that's the beauty of it. It is not possible to say that if this were her situation she would get this reading or that reading....we don't know that's why we cast to see what Yi will say.

There isn't a moral judgement in the answer, it's just stating clearly how it is. I don't think either I or Rosada said she would be waiting forever. We were saying as the answer shows the situation as stable, as continuing as it is, no big change, then if Lilita wasn't happy with how things were she may want to stop waiting and move on, but if she is okay with how things are then she may stay. It's up to her.
But waiting with the idea that big changes will happen might mean waiting on and on for nothing.

Yi wasn't moralising here. I was a little because reading between the lines if someone says they cannot be with someone and it's complicated and he has to wait and so on then it's pretty likley there's an existing wife or girlfriend in the situation. So I wasn't taking that from the readings but from what Lilita said.

Apart from anything else if people truly want to be together they get together. It's that simple. If one of them is saying any of these things

"I'll leave my wife/husband when my daughter finished her exams"
or
"when home life is more settled "
or
"when this that or the other is sorted out*

then it's highly likely that other person will be waiting for a very long time.

The cast here looked like a stable relationship that would go on as it is.....but if Lilita wants more she probably needs to make some changes herself.


But no you can never say this IMO

Trojan, just out of pure curiosity and learning, if her situation is that this guy is married, or taken, wouldn't she have received 54, 23, 33?


Why would all affairs come under these 3 ? I see no reason. Yi is answering the individual situation as it is experienced by the person. Answers aren't mechanical as in "he's taken already give her a 54'. Afterall she may not be in a 54 situation...what if she has higher status in his eyes than the wife does ?
 

Trojina

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PS Usually I avoid answering these kinds of questions but did here as I didn't agree with either you or Ash's take given the situation and wanted to give another view. In the end I think Rosada put it much better than I did.
 
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Trojina

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Actually it's not that I didn't agree with your take but I saw the situation differently...
 
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blue_angel

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Ok, thank you for that very much. Although its me that is misunderstanding and apparently I am misunderstanding so much that I can not even seem to come across clear what I am misunderstanding lol... oh gosh.

"I don't think I or Rosada said she would be waiting forever." Rightly so, neither of you said that. I will try to explain what I meant a little better. Lilita's question was "will this (ever) happen.?" Ever for me put together with enduring, my interpretation of the lines, then your interpretations, meant "waiting forever".

See the thing is I just wanted to understand the lines, and I thought I did. But when both of your understanding was different than mine, I tried to go back and read different translations and see if I could resonate with your views. I couldn't grasp it, at the point I thought I had it, I came up with waiting forever, and thought maybe that's what you both meant. After your post its obvious I still didn't get it. So right fully so, neither of you said she would be waiting forever.

I actually said my view was she would need to wait. (That's what I understood the yi to be saying). However, if I understand right,
you two were saying "its as good as it will be. Be happy with how it is, or get out. This is as good as it gets".

(My problem) was I couldn't see after reading the translations how the two of you came up with that meaning or advice. So I was hoping to understand. Although now I'm thinking maybe I should've pm you instead of taking up space on Lilita's thread. But who knows, maybe it will be educational for someone else. I am not against the answer you both gave, as I rarely feel its our answer we are giving but what we think yi's answer is, and I feel we mostly have each persons best interest at heart with the advice we do give out.

I do see what you are saying about the readings of affairs not always turning into a 54, 33, 23 type answer, so thank you for that boost of insight, that was great. Guess I got complacent or use to a certain
way. And, I definitely understand and know where you are coming from with the "its complicated" thing, and I agree, that's usually the case.

In no way was I feeling or thinking either of you were judging or moralizing her. I'm just trying to see your point of views or how you got
what you got out of the translations, because if my view is too narrow and I'm not seeing the big picture, I don't want to miss out on yi's advice or future teachings. If I would've received this answer, I would've thought it meant what I wrote, lol, so I would've waited. When perhaps the yi was actually saying this is as good as it gets, there's nothing wrong here. And I mean what if it was about a car issue or a Dr exam. Then I
would've looked back at yi like "hey, what the heck? I thought you said
wait?" And yi's laughing at me "what? I said this is as good as it gets!"
Hopefully I explained without rambling toooo much.

Blue_Angel
 
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blue_angel

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Yes... I may just need to chalk it up to different views as many of us seem to have those on here. And who knows which will be more helpful or resonate with the person asking. These days my brain is either scrambled, mush, or I get lucky and I'm flowing so forgive me for that. That's why I answer at times then other times I don't. Mostly when I answer its to help but also to continue learning.
 

Trojina

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No reading exists without a context so I think both Rosada and I were picking up on the context. You saw the context differently. Doesn't mean we were right and you were wrong.

So for example if the querant was in a very happy marriage or relationship and wanted to know if it would endure then the answer 'this will go on with no major changes' would be good news wouldn't it. If however one is in an unsatisfactory situation, as Lilita seems to be, she is wondering if he is going to do what he says, then the answer that 'this will go on as it is' is not such good news. Same answer different context.

:)
 

Tim K

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I think I have not expressed my thoughts well.

@blue_angel For me the deciding factor was line 4: "Tied-up bag. No error; no praise." (Wilhelm)
and 7.3: Too many leaders/divided counsel.

So basically I agree with trojan and rosada, but I also think that Yi advises to listen to inner/higher self for advice (46) that will lead her to the thing she really needs, because I don't think this relationship will change anytime soon.
 
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blue_angel

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Thank you for that Ashteroid, I totally missed that "tied up bag, no error, no praise." I have no idea how I missed it. And I too use Wilhelm as one of my first go to. So Im not sure what happened.
 

lilita

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Thank you, Ash... I'm thinking about what you've written - and so beautifully! Appreciate the thoughtful responses.
 

lilita

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Wow... many thanks to ALL of you! So much information and insight here - I truly appreciate all this. There were no responses for the first couple days, then I got so busy I didn't have time to look for a bit, so I'm amazed and grateful to check back tonight and see all this!

For the record, Trojan, he isn't married. I was, when we first met. My marriage was already coming apart then, but I couldn't do anything with him at that time, tempted as I was. But now I'm close to finalizing the divorce. There are other issues as well - we lives two states away, we can only see each other in person every few months or so... and our business in which we are partners now is really struggling to get off the ground - so time and economics play a role in all this, too. Hence "many obstacles"... I wasn't going to go into all the details, but I see now how the lack of specifics is coloring some interpretations. So I'm sorry for that!

I do get frustrated with things limping along as they are. When I asked the question, I was just ready to scream! I know it's a terrible question to ask. I do hope this situation does not endure forever in it's current state. And of course it's obvious to me that there is so much work I need to do on all fronts - on myself, and on the business, and more.

So I've heard different things here about the relating hexagram - some of you seem to regard it as the "result" of the changing lines (that's what I always thought!), but some of you regard it as the "context" within which the question was asked. How can we know? It really does make a difference in the meaning of the answer.

Thank you again and much love to all!
 

lilita

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Sorry, my last response to Ash didn't come in order... I was talking about the poem that was the higher self saying "I see a vision..." a really lovely visualization. Also, I don't understand where 7.3 and 46 come into this. I'm sure you're talking about some system of reading that I'm unfamiliar with, which isn't surprising! :)
 

Trojina

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So I've heard different things here about the relating hexagram - some of you seem to regard it as the "result" of the changing lines (that's what I always thought!), but some of you regard it as the "context" within which the question was asked. How can we know? It really does make a difference in the meaning of the answer.




No, it makes no sense IMO to see the relating hexagram as the result or caused by the primary. I mean readings don't make much sense of you take that view. here's a Blog post by Hilary on it.



http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2013/06/01/the-old-resulting-hexagram-conundrum/

Of course some don't think this is true, so it is a matter of personal opinion but overall I'd say my capacity to understand readings improved 100% after dropping the idea that the relating hexagram was the 'result'.
 

lilita

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Dear Blue Angel, you're NOT taking up space on my thread! You're opinion is soooooo welcome! Thank you for sharing it and trying to grasp the meanings. I'm reading and re-reading all these responses over and over tonight!
 

lilita

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Hi Trojan... very interesting indeed. Your, and Hillary's opinion will change the way I look at every reading now!
I always thought that the lines, if acted upon, facilitated the change to the new hexagram. But then that gets confusing when there are multiple changing lines, and their messages are contradictory. Unless we were to consider a new relating hexagram for each changing line and study them one by one, kind of like possible outcome options!

Even if the relating hexagram is the context, getting multiple changing lines that are contradictory is still a confusing situation.

Thanks for your input! Much appreciated... I'm learning here. :)
 

Trojina

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Hi Lilita, yes that way of seeing the relating hexagram as the backdrop to the reading revolutionised my way of reading and many others.

Here is another great Blog post I feel would be helpful as a sticky as most newbies here seem to come with the idea that the relating hexagram is 'the future'

http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2013/05/05/how-important-are-the-changing-lines/

I quote from it here



The traditional way of seeing this is to say that you receive one hexagram, some lines change, and this results in the second hexagram, later on. This should really be in another post… but in brief, I find it more helpful to see it as receiving the two hexagrams together as one – simultaneous, superimposed, mapped onto one another. The changing lines show the points of difference between the two hexagrams: they are the places of movement, or tension, or exchange. They light up because this is where energy is flowing.
 

Tim K

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lilita said:
Ash, did you write this poem? Beautiful!
Yeah, I wish I could do that :) No, this is a song by Cathy Burton - "Hearts connected".
It just hit me when I was listening to it(original trance version) that I should add this as a second part of my answer.

Here's an acoustic one, but it sounds more sad:
[video=youtube;IWQ7er-pSrw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWQ7er-pSrw[/video]

lilita said:
Also, I don't understand where 7.3 and 46 come into this. I'm sure you're talking about some system of reading that I'm unfamiliar with, which isn't surprising! :)

Transitional method gives, by following each changing line (you got lines 2,3,4), from 2 to 32 :
2.2 → 7.3(Organised force) → 46.4(Ascending) → 32(Persevering)

I hope Bradford doesn't mind, here is his description of the method, p.44.
He describes 4.3.6 -> 46, through 18.
bradford_p44.png
 

Trojina

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Even if the relating hexagram is the context, getting multiple changing lines that are contradictory is still a confusing situation.

Ways to make multiple lines less confusing are

1. read the 2 hexagrams as a sentence to begin with

ie for your reading here 'enduring receptivity' or 'receptivity endures'

2. Look at the patterns the change lines makes by making all your change lines yang and the rest yin you will see another hexagram, the yang pattern, In this reading it is 32. it shows how you are coming into the situation. The yin pattern, where you make all change lines yin, is how you go through the situation, here it is hex 42. It's like looking at the bones of the reading.....
 

lilita

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Wow again... it's 3 am here in California but I'm loving this discussion! Ash, I'm going to have to come back and look at that method tomorrow -really spend some time with it. I doubt Bradford will mind, since you've credited him as the author. :) Please leave it up for a while. I need to get some sleep before I tackle anything complicated!

And Trojan, I love your suggestion to merge the 2 hexagrams into a phrase! And the yang pattern and the yin pattern. Thank you for that too! I've got to come back tomorrow and try all these things! You guys are GOOD!
 
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blue_angel

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Now that you have responded, and you get an idea of how the readings can work, I would like to add sometimes we get or at least I get a confusing reading when I haven't meditated or am not relaxed, focused, calm. You say you were ready to scream...

The sticky on relationship advice by Hilary is great and has some good examples of
questions you can ask. Its right above where
you post your thread.

You stated even if you do get together, you
don't know if he can give you what you want.
So why not ask "what is the potential between (name) and I?" As Ashteroid stated, you
asked ever. Another question I like is "what is
an image of (name) and I together?"

It helps me if I ask an open ended question about here and now. Sometimes my answer will lead to another question, sometimes not. Anytime I have asked future questions I couldn't really understand the answer until it happened, then again sometimes it either hasn't happened yet or didn't happen. Either way creates some confusion. If you are not clear in your mind and clear with your question, how can you expect a clear answer. Then sometimes we ask one thing when we really want to know another. If we're lucky, iching picks up on that.

For me to learn this, I would ask a simple question I sort of already have an idea of what the answers are. Then after I get my reading, I'll look up several translations and see what rings true, how it all fits together in my answer.

Hope that helps and makes sense.

Best wishes,

Blue_angel
 

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