Happy New Year - Help with some readings?

luz · Dec 31, 2004

okay, I've been trying to listen to my intuition and, in this way, do my own readings with a certain degree of 'certainty' (?), but my head is really, really noisy and my intuition is very reserved, so I keep on plugging along and hoping for some help...

My daughter asked three questions, one after the other and the answer to at least one of them doesn't make sense at all to me. Could it be that the questions get mixed up?
Here they are:

1. What will happen between me and X in the next month? (x being her love interest, there is no relationship yet, only hints that there might be one)
Answer: 14.1.2.4.6 -> 15
My interpretation: I went 'wow' when I saw 14, as it seems so positive, but after reaing here and there and everywhere and trying to apply different methods for dealing with multiple lines.. I guess I'd say they possibilities are great but she needs to have a focus, a plan, which probably includes not expecting too much too soon and being herself...

2. Was there a problem for me because of the unlocked locker? She left a locker open and she was concerned about having her things stolen.
Answer: 11.4.5 -> 43 (????)
This is hard to apply to this question but my interpretation was that it's okay?

3. What about a certain plan of action, regarding X? (see above, X is her love interest)
Answer: 45.5 -> 16
This one I haven't really tried too hard with, but it talks about cooperation, I guess...?

And lastly, one little reading for me, What will the new year bring for me?
Answer: #38.2.6 -> 51
Too close to me to be objective... be myself? not to worry about being weird, seems to be Lise's advice. that, by the way, is something I totally agree with, being called weird is a compliment....

Thanks so much to anybody who might want to help with this readings, I think that the help I get here will allow to develop myself more as a I Ching reader. You're teaching me how to fish!

Best to everybody for the New Year.

yly2pg1 · Jan 1, 2005

Hi Lightangel,

(1) 14.1.2.4.6 -> 15

in my opinion, line 3 is where you can find the answer. Two possible outcomes, depending on who you are and what approach you adopt.

While the line recommends a 'humble' approach, it is the person you are who will decide how the thing turns out.

luz · Jan 1, 2005

Thanks, Yly2pg1.
You mean 15.3, right?

What do you mean by 'the person who you are determines how it turns out'?
I mean, is there something one can do, an attitude one can take or you think it's just predetermined, based on who you are?

yly2pg1 · Jan 1, 2005

Hi Lightangel,

My understanding about 14.1.2.4.6->15.

Line 3 refers to 14.3.
This is a 'method' used instead of going thru
the the changing lines of 1,2,4,6 in Hex14.

14.3 suggests two possibilities. Basically, it is
your true personality that will dictate how things
develop.

At the same time, be humble (Hex15).

luz · Jan 1, 2005

hi, i'm a little confused now.
i know of two ways of doing the multiple lines. one of them is going through each hexagram, in this case:
14.1 -> 50.2 -> 56.4 -> 56.6 -> 15

the other method says, if there are four changing lines, read the lowest one that doesn't change in the relating hexagram. that would be 15.3

how do you get to 14.3? can you give me more info on this method?

any insights on the other readings?
anybody?
thanks.

luz · Jan 1, 2005

Pretty please???
I am curious to know if there is a different way of approaching the multiple lines other than the ones I described above, and the one that Yly2pg1 suggests... and btw I'd love to hear how this latter one works..
Also, when you guys do your readings, do you try all the different approaches or do you use only one. If the former, how do you know what the real answer is?
I know newbie's questions must be a pain sometimes, but help will be appreciated.
Thanks

pargenton · Jan 1, 2005

Hi Lightangel,
I think you can find various references for the multiple moving lines problem here at onlineclarity in Answers newsletter archive.

For me, every moving line represents "something".
Could be alternative actions, i.e. "what if" I act according to moving line x; in this case you can find useful for the decision the resulting hex with only that moving line changed.
Example
14.1 - Zhi Gua 50, Fan Yao 50.1 ( I find handy to use bradford's B translation which has these two items explicitly indicated)

14.2 Zhi Gua 30 Fan Yao 30.2
and so on..

Or they could represent different people involved, different periods of time, anyway I prefer to try to deal with the complexity of interpretation rather than try to simplify the reading, like Hilary wrote somewhere.
Bye
Paolo

candid · Jan 1, 2005

Hi Lightangel,

I read all the changing lines and consider each one as it applies to the question. Then I read the relating hexagram. The only time I use fan yao (relating hex change lines) is if I need additional imagery, which is rare.

calumet · Jan 1, 2005

Thanks to the many translations available, the Yi seems quite user-friendly to me, and I take an informal attitude toward it--which does NOT mean I don't take it seriously. It's an important tool to me, kind of like my stainless steel cooking spoons. Sturdy, simple, time-tested. I don't treat them with any special reverence--they get put into the dishwasher along with all the other foody things. But I value them highly and would feel at a terrible loss setting up a kitchen, let alone actually trying to cook something, without them. Not everyone takes this sort of attitude to the Yi, so I wanted to warn you. With that in mind ...

I think of the main hex as the primary image to contemplate in mulling over your question. I almost invariably read the relating hex as "context." For example, 35.2.5-->6, I would take to mean "advancement in a context of conflict." Your inner or outer circumstances, your context, contain conflict, and you can advance in this context. Holding this thought, I would then read the changinging lines as additional commentary and advice, or cautions to bear in mind. 35.2 advises perfecting your inner attitude. 35.5 advises you to stop worrying about what you have lost or gained.

Chances are you already knew you were in a conflict, and perhaps you sensed that you have an opportunity to advance somehow despite or because of it. The Yi is merely pointing this out--or rather, you are pointing it out to yourself, using the Yi as a springboard. The changing lines offer advice on how to handle your situation, in this hypothetical case how to progress in spite of the conflict. Get your inner act together. Stop worrying about what you've lost or gained. Neither piece of advice is particularly easy to hear or implement, but overall it's pretty good generic advice, don't you think? I would probably leave it at that.

However, if I still couldn't see how my cast applied to my question, I would look at the nuclear hexagram; examine the change progressions (e.g., 35.2.5-->64-->6); work out the change operators (see Karcher); work out the reverse hex; look upside down and sideways at the lines themselves, that is, the marks on the paper and the pictograph they form; and do whatever occurs to me as a good way to glean adequate meaning from my cast. What I consider adequate varies from day to day. Like Candid, though, I usually stop fairly early in the game, because the answer seldom seems terribly obscure to me, and also because my navel-gazing time and my patience are limited.

luz · Jan 1, 2005

thanks for your responses.
I guess I should try to do what Candid does, and keep it more simple.
I was just wondering how you would get to line 15.3 in the reading in question, as Yly2pg1 suggested...

luz · Jan 1, 2005

Thank you, Calumet. Because of what you said, I'm looking at this issue from a different perspective. I see you approach and Candid's are the same and they make sense to me. Before I was thinking that the new techniques might give you answers that 'override' the original answer you get from primary, lines, realting.
But now I see these techniques more as tools to understand better or go deeper, but they don't change the original answer.
I'll keep it in mind that simple does it most of the time.

bradford_h · Jan 1, 2005

Lightangel-
If you really want to study this question in some detail, search the Community Discussion for "multiple changing lines" (use quote marks).
Lots of material. Big subject.

luz · Jan 1, 2005

Thank you Bradford. I've actually done that before. That's where I got the methods I talk about earlier in the thread. I'll do it again, but I thought I had found those two methods.
As an aside, in your opinion, is 14.1.2.4.6 as good as it looks or do I miss something by not going deeper?

jte · Jan 1, 2005

LA, hope you don't mind me adding my 2 cents on:

"What will happen between me and X in the next month? (x being her love interest, there is no relationship yet, only hints that there might be one) Answer: 14.1.2.4.6 -> 15 "

To me, this is saying that the relationship will be much of what it *should* be without becoming all that it *could* be. Combined with the extremely positive lines 2 and 6 is the restraint shown in 1 and 4.

Some of the potential that's there for the relationship doesn't get fully expressed - lines 3 and 5 aren't moving. I'm not certain how old your daughter is, but if she's a teenager, you as a parent might well see this as a positive thing! (If you see what I'm getting at...)

Humility - caution, rather than going "all out"; often that's a good thing that keeps the wonderfulness of the relationship from backfiring later...

Hope that helps...

- Jeff

bradford_h · Jan 1, 2005

Hi Lightangel-
I don't really do good and bad, or things as good as they look. A fun story:

The Taoist Farmer

A farmer named Sei Weng owned a beautiful mare which was praised far and wide. One day this wonderful horse disappeared. The people of his village offered sympathy to Sei Weng for his great misfortune. Sei Weng said simply, "What makes you think this is bad?"

A few days later the lost mare returned, followed by a whole herd of wild horses, led by a beautiful wild stallion. The village congratulated Sei Weng for his great good fortune. He said, "What makes you think this is good?"

Some time later, Sei Weng's only son, while riding the stallion, fell off and broke his leg. The village people once again expressed their sympathy at Sei Weng's misfortune. Sei Weng again said, "What makes you think this is bad?"

Soon after, a war broke out and all the young men of the village except Sei Weng's lame son were drafted and sent into a horrible battle. The village people were amazed as Sei Weng's good luck. But Sei Weng only replied, "What makes you think this is good?"

luz · Jan 2, 2005

Jeff, Bradford, thank you so much.
Great insight from Jeff. Yes, my daughter is a teenager and you're absolutely right, and in a funny way that ties in with what Bradford says... heard that little tale before and it's so, so true!

I wonder about it being good or bad mostly because I wanted to measure my understanding of the Oracle. I guess these readings, though more important for my daughter, are mostly about finding my way with the I ching for me.

Happy to know lines 1 and 4 are there!

Thanks again

candid · Jan 2, 2005

Lightangel, I wonder if you may have overlooked Brad's short note: "or things as good as they look".

14 is a grand image of prosperity, but it can also be an image of finding a dollar bill in your sofa. Just how big it is, that's a matter to discern. Regardless though how big or small, it is a responsibility to invest it wisely.

luz · Jan 2, 2005

Candid, you are right, I did not pay much attention to that phrase and I see what you mean about 'how good' the answer might or might not be.
From my point of view, though, depending on the question that was asked, the answer would still be positive because there is progress in your situation. Even if you will only be one dollar richer. And you still have to invest it wisely.
Thanks. I really love the way all of you think. Or intuit...

luz · Jan 6, 2005

NOW I'M WORRIED.
Well, after all your wonderful insights, you guys got me thinking....
(See thread above)
So, I asked something along the lines of "What is the nature of this relationship (or connection, there's no real relationship yet) between my daughter and X?"

The answer was: Hex 44.5 - > Hex 50

I did my research. Found a very interesting thread in the archives. From what I understand, 5 is the "better" of the lines in this hexagram but still... I don't know.

Should I worry???? (at this point, the good news is that worrying is not my only option, that only makes in more important to have a good take on this).

Help, please.

candid · Jan 6, 2005

44.5 As her mother, wrap her in your protection until you're sure it is safe for her to choose for herself. This relationship between "them" isn't hers to deal with. Nor is it his. It is yours.

luz · Jan 6, 2005

I guess I should make sure it doesn't happen at all. I guess there can not be any good interpretation (in this particular case) of this hexagram.
Thanks. I can't say I feel better but you are right. It's really my responsibility and up to me.

luz · Jan 6, 2005

I don't know, I guess what I meant, what I 'hoped' for is that the situation is not as 'raw' as it seems in that hexagram, considering the subjects involved. I mean, my daughter is young and innocent (some of you might smirk, but she is) and I was thinking, maybe there's another 'level' in which this doesn't sound like a warning.
I don't know if this makes sense.
Thanks,

candid · Jan 6, 2005

Lightangel, I don't cast the negativity upon 44 that some others do. I just don't read it that way. It can have negative implications, yes, but so can the other 63 hexagrams.

Everything that is born, including relationships, must be carried. Every child is carried by his/her mother. This is 44. She is tough and she is selfish about protecting what she carries. Everything else comes second. It doesn't mean she stops living her life. She still tends to those people and things she values. But woe to anyone who threatens the fruit of her womb.

pam · Jan 6, 2005

Lightangel,

I had to laugh when I read your throw about 44.5 > 50. I often write down my throws and keep them for awhile, which gives me insight into the meaning by comparing the throw with what results. There are many incidents where I had an enlightenment about a line or a pair of hexagrams by the way things played out. That is how I learn. This hex was one I threw when my oldest son was 16 (now 33) and he had been invited to the senior prom by a senior, even though he was a junior. I think I asked how the evening would turn out.

He and another junior buddy double dated with the girl who invited him driving her car (he didn't have one yet). The boys were at our house waiting and the girls came to pick them up, all youthful loveliness in their gorgeous dresses. After saying hello we wanted to get pictures of the kids before they left and so the boys brought out the corsage boxes.

My son took out the corsage for his date and then took one look at her strapless dress and the cleavage he would have to negotiate with his hand to pin it on her and turned to me and said, "mom, I think maybe you'd better do this....?" I ended up doing the pinning for both boys since his buddy was just as unsure of where his hand would end up if he had to attempt it.

My husband and I have laughed about that many times in the years since - and so has my son now that he is married and a father himself.

He, too, was a sweet and somewhat innocent boy at the time...when confronted with the 'coming to meet' he offered it up as a sacrifice (the cauldron) and let mom do it. They partied safely that night and came home after breakfast, etc. at an arranged event, full of exciting tales of the dinner and dance and the whole evening.

Maybe your throw is saying your daughter, like any teen, is aware of the sexual tensions between this boy and her but when the time comes to take a step over the line, she will back down and sacrifice the experience until she is more ready. I think Candid's advice is right on - but I also think your daughter probably will make the right decision if you have raised her to trust you and be open with you, as it sounds like you have. Protect her, but let her know you trust HER, too.

My own 15 yr. old boy just got home - must be off to take him to basketball practice...

candid · Jan 6, 2005

Shame on me for not reading the question correctly. I was under the impression the boy friend your daughter was asking about was *your* b/f, angel.

While the fundaments of the reading remain the same, Pam's answer augments it perfectly.

luz · Jan 7, 2005

Thank you so much, Pam! I loved your story! I definitely think I have to be more open-minded with this. Like Candid says, there are no bad hexagrams per se, you just have to try to adapt the answers to the situation. You know, I heard there's a book called 'the I Ching for teens', I wonder what it says for this line. I would love to get it for my daughter but my husband would definitely not approve. I'm a closet i ching-er as it is.

(btw, I've been thinking to ask around here if any other people have to keep their i ching habits rather secret, I'm sure there must be others.)

And Candid, I had to laugh about how you misread the question. My boyfriend! That would have been a real something! When I first read your response, it really sounded like advice. I forgot that it was actually an interpretation and I think that's why I also panicked, I felt so inadequate, thinking, I'm asking if this is something to worry about, I shoul probably be keeping my daughter in a convent instead! How can I even indulge her in asking these questions???

It's tough being a mom.

Happy New Year - Help with some readings?

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