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What kind of Fellowship is 13?

malka

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What does the Yi mean by "fellowship?" Is it friendship? Love? Community? Is it a group of people? It is a 1:1 relationship? What is the emotion? What is the quality and character of the connection?

Also: Any particular experience with 13.2 you'd like to share?
 

pargenton

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Hi Malka,
for me 13 is a community of people, could be people in an office working together, an association, a club, things like that.

Hilary talks about co-operation, as a key feature of hex 13 in Answers 69.

Paolo
 

hilary

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In one to one relationships - friendship, uncomplicated companionship in shared activities, enjoying one another's company. Not a passionate connection in itself.

And yes, see Answers 69
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prynne

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13.2. was the YiJing's way of telling me an amorous relationship was not appropriate.
 
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prynne

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13.2. was also the YiJing's way of telling me a group had become too selective, exculsive. I always recieved it with other changing lines in 13 to describe the dynamics of a situation. In fact, the only lines I THINK I have received alone in hexagram 13, were 5, and 6.
 
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candid

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13.2
Avoid mob mentality.
Be your own person, alone in the crowd.
Popular opinions are usually just sour grapes.
 

anton

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I had hex 13 in a relationship question and it turned out like Hilary said. It had more to do with enjoying one another's company then intimacy or passion.

Anton
 

heylise

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I think the Xiang, the image, gives a very good description. The Xiang is the part of the Wings I like most, it must have been written by someone with a lot of insight.
"The image says:
Heaven associating with fire: union of people
The noble one classifies the clans and reads the trails of creatures."
'Reading the trails' is bian, it is the old form of another character, pronounced he same, which means distinguish, differentiate, discern, but both have the same essential meaning. Every kind among creatures can be recognized by its trails, tiger, mouse, human. But among humans too, there are different 'trails', families or clans are different, some specialize in hunting, finances, farming, others can be distinguished because of their language, or by the ancestor they descend from.

TONG is a picture of a molding box and either mouth or opening, or object. Or according to Karlgren maybe opening + cover, 'fit together'.
Its meanings: all, similar, equal, identical, resemblance, together, communion, common, to share, to agree, the same as, identical, and, with, to be associates, to conspire, to act in concord, flow together (rivers), to uniformize measures, a domain of 100 square li, gathering and audience of feudatory lords every 12 years, the female musical tones. On oracle bones: to perform the Tong sacrifice. REN is man or people.

In one of the threads here, someone said: "We share a lot more as people than we differ as individuals." I think it was Bradford, not sure.
Fire below Heaven: the forms and manifestations of all beings below the laws of Heaven. Then there is order in the world. Then one can read the trails and feel at home.
The union has to be according to 'class', not through restrictions, arrangement and other human constructs, but 'in the open field'.

In the 'discussions' there was a thread ' Hypothetical 13 alone? ', last July.

LiSe
 

gene

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I did a lengthy writeup about line 2 a year or so ago, as to why it is unexpectedly negative. Don't remember what I said now though. Anyway, as a rule, this hexagram has more to do with friendship than intimacy. But with all hexagrams it can mean anything under the sun, depending on the question. The backdrop to this hexagram is hexagram 12 where things have come to a standstill. When things are in a negative situation, it is natural for people to band together in order to cooperatively overcome the bad times. But it is also true that line 2 and 5, the central lines are yin and yang respectively. This, irrespective of the commentary on the lines can in some cases refer to a marriage relationship. The two central lines when changing mediate hexagram 14 which is inherently more positive even though the central lines are not in their proper places. By placing yin and yang in their proper places, they integrate, and lead therefore to great possessions. While line two of 13 is not so positive, a changing line two and five become very positive. Hexagram 13, and 38, and perhaps some others teach us how to properly integrate as a society. They teach us about inner attitudes that keep us from trusting each other. I have been hoping eventually to go into this theme in greater depth eventually in my thread on Taoist I Ching 101. For now, suffice it to say that inherent in the lines is the concept of learning that what we see in others is a mirror image of our inner attitude about ourselves. I hope to discuss this in relationship to hexagram 61 soon also.

Gene
 

dobro p

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Fellowship is being with and enjoying the company of people you like. You can let your hair down in fellowship. Social relationship and socializing.

I do it on the internet lol.
 

bradford_h

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Hi
Here's some stuff on the Hexagram name:
The word Ren in Tong Ren just means person, human being, another, of both sexes.
Tong has a range of meanings, but fellowship is best. It usually implies convergence around something in common or a point of consensus. It isn't especially associated with feelings like brotherly love, but that can be there. This is from my glossary:

tong2 6615 1176a 30+3 13.0 (to) agree, assemble, assimilate, affiliate, associate, belong, come together, commune, partake in, conform to, congregate, converge, concur, gather, harmonize, identify, join, make uniform, share, unite (s, ed, ing) (in, with, to); (to be) alike, all, as one, colloquial, concordant, conforming, consensual, equal, identical, identified, in the company of, like minded, one, one with, similar, the same, together with, unanimous, united; (a, the) community, assembly, associates, association, colleagues, (-ies of), agreement, convergence, fellowship (with), meeting, joining, gathering, harmony, identity, oneness, partners, sameness, unity, union; of the same ...; fellow...; simultaneously, concurrently; and, with, as well as
 

dobro p

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Okay, this is sure to have been asked and discussed before now, but what's the difference between 13 and 45?

The first seems informal and for the sake of companionship to me; the second seems more formal and for a serious purpose.
 

malka

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Thank you, thank you! This is all good stuff. And as often is the case, there is no one answer with the Yi. It seems to be that 13 is about the companionship aspect of relationship mostly, but of course there are hints of so much more that is connected to it as well.

Dobro asks a great question here: What is the difference between 13 and 45? Isn't 45 also about like-minded people gathering together?

Malka
 

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