Tiff, 23 uc and 18.3 > 4

Juliah · Nov 22, 2014

Hello friends.

A year ago I had a strange phone conversation with an acquaintance of mine. Before that our relations had been smooth and almost friendly, but after that call everything broke up. It seemed as if the man expressed a claim towards me and left me pondering over it. A Parthian arrow

I was puzzled and decided not to respond at all as I did not like his approach very much. Since that time we have not contacted.

The other day I recalled him and asked the IC if he remembers me. I got 23 UC, which I interpreted as no, he has already forgotten you and has driven you from his life as a kind of old stuff.

Ok. But then I decided to ask about his feelings towards me and got 18.3 > 4. Does it mean that the man would like to restore friendship which has been spoilt? Is there a contradiction with the hex 23?

Your inputs will be much appreciated. Many thanks.

sooo · Nov 22, 2014

I'd go with your Parthian arrow idea. I think if you'd like to pursue a relationship with this guy that you start from scratch, hit the reset button and take it from the top, in a 4 like manner: not knowing, not assuming, not expecting, neither doubting. Rather like children with no past or baggage.

Juliah · Nov 22, 2014

Thank you, Bruce, nice to see you here

I am afraid, I won't restart it being deeply impressed with his manner and the 23 UC.

But my second question was about his feelings, not mine

sooo · Nov 22, 2014

Always nice to see you too, Juliah.

Well, there's a side to 23 not often spoken of. You can't eat the banana until you strip away the peel. 23 can mean to strip away appearances to get to the real thing.

As to his thoughts of you, have you given him a reason to think of you at this time? 18.3-4 does not contradict 23. Perhaps strip the formalities (line 4) and approach him innocently, sincerely. Too much is better than too little here, unless it's not really that important to you?

Juliah · Nov 22, 2014

As to his thoughts of you, have you given him a reason to think of you at this time?

I do not know if it is relevant to the matter... I often recall him and wonder if we reconcile one day or not.

23 can mean to strip away appearances to get to the real thing.

I have never faced such interpretation before, thanks a lot. To me, the 23 is a total dead end, no prospects, something irretrievable like death, three times no, particularly the unchanging hex.

sooo · Nov 22, 2014

Perhaps strip the "re" from the "call", and just call him?

After all, just recalling him doesn't necessarily mean he will think of you.

I think your idea of 23 is most prevalent, and it sometimes can apply. So can pruning away the dead limbs which sends living energy (chi) down to the roots, to grow fresh limbs. Thus the junzi makes his position above secure by generously giving to what is below.

Consider LiSe's rendition: http://www.yijing.nl/hex/hex_23.html

Juliah · Nov 22, 2014

No, I won't, sorry

The reason is not my "pride and and prejudice", but some other things. I contacted him on some business issues, and I had no opportunity to cooperate with him after what had happened - his turn made this impossible. Generally speaking, I won't

I won't contact a man who tried to bite me and then to see what would come out.

Thank you for the link, I'll read it.

blue_angel · Nov 22, 2014

I'll offer another view. 23 in answering your question seems to say "what does it matter if he remembers you or not? You stripped away, you went separate directions."

18.3 in answering your question says something like "The only way to find out is to call him, and make a great attempt in correcting what went wrong"

However when reading 18 line 3, the question arises, do you feel there is anything that needs correcting in your own action, behavior, or perception? Another possible question is, how does this connect to your own father? Are your perceptions or actions similar to your father? Do you have an issue with your fathers past behavior? If you do, how does it connect to resolving this situation. It may or may not apply. It is only for you to ask yourself and reflect. You are the one who recalled him.

Juliah · Nov 22, 2014

Thank you for your insight, Blue Angel.

I have analyzed the situation through the length and breadth, my perception, behaviour and so on... I guess that I will be remaining in the dark until he decides to contact me what is much impossible (hex 23).

I think that our fathers have nothing to do with the situation, but perhaps the line implies some psychological patterns inherited from our parents, who knows... Jim De Korne interprets this line as "an easily rectified mistake". I can also add that I would be glad to reconcile

Anyway, the mistake is still here.

And a second addition, if you please. To take initiative is not a problem for me, but I feel, my gut tells me not to do so. He said what he wanted to say and perhaps, hoped for something to happen. I do not know his goals, and, sincerely speaking, I do not realize the way I can phone him. Once he outspoke and hung up.

sooo · Nov 23, 2014

Juliah said:
I think that our fathers have nothing to do with the situation, but perhaps the line implies some psychological patterns inherited from our parents

I generally associate references to the father with rigid adherence to tradition (i.e. good girls don't initiate contact with a boy), formality and strict discipline. Freedom and creativity can become stifled and spoiled without a counterbalance, which is associated with the mother. A mother's unconditional love can enable a child's poor behavior, and that child may grow to be spoiled through their sense of entitlement, without the counterbalance of the father. We are speaking of archetypal metaphor here. It may or may not be true in someone's life literally, but those attributes of father and mother are within our own personalities.

Juliah · Nov 23, 2014

I am afraid, I can be hardly named a good girl

As I wrote before, to take the initiative is not a problem for me, and, to tell the truth, I have taken it much more times than it was required (not with this man, but generally, during all my life)

This time my gut tells me emphatically not to do it.

How I see it. The man whom I asked about tried to make me do something he wanted, it was a kind of manipulation. I asked about his feelings for me and got 18.3. It is likely that now he may regret about what has been done. The complimentary 4 tells about his ignorance, lack of information - in other words, he did not expect not having my visible reaction at all, perhaps, due to the fact that he had never encountered such a thing before - earlier his Parthian arrow reached the target (that's why we deal with "the father" here, a pattern which had worked fine and had not let him down in similar situations). But this time he had had a kind of cognitive dissonance

The pattern does not work any longer, it must be rectified.

sooo · Nov 23, 2014

Very interesting, Juliah! Knowing more of the details, I think that sounds like a great interpretation!

Juliah · Nov 23, 2014

Thank you, Bruce. Usually I do not succeed in interpreting the IC casts.

pocossin · Nov 23, 2014

Juliah said:
The other day I recalled him and asked the IC if he remembers me. I got 23 UC, which I interpreted as no, he has already forgotten you and has driven you from his life as a kind of old stuff.

He can no more forget you than you can forget him. The seeds were sown and are still in the soil, but whether or not they will sprout depends on contingencies over which we have no control.

Juliah · Nov 23, 2014

Pocossin, thanks a lot for your insight. I have never known this aspect of the 23... Very interesting and reasonable, especially followed by 18.3.

sooo · Nov 23, 2014

Ultimately, each is responsible for our own interpretation of our own readings. Others can offer their/our understanding, knowledge, impressions, intuitive assumptions, but at the end of the day, the only one who can say what the reading means is the one who receives it.

Trojina and I don't always see eye-to-eye, but one thing we always seem to agree on is that the only real way to know what someone else thinks about the one asking the question is to ask them. Not saying you can't or shouldn't ask Yi to get some idea of what the situation looks like, but only that other person can say for sure. That's my opinion. We are like sign posts: some point this way, some that way, some say do not enter, some say straight ahead, but it's your trip.

Juliah · Nov 25, 2014

I am still contemplating upon 18.3... what can it mean regarding feelings?
I would appreciate sharing your experience and thoughts.

sooo · Nov 26, 2014

Since 18 trigrams depict a trapped pocket of stagnant air against a mountain side, a brisk breath of fresh air may be the ticket to breathe new life into the landscape.

...life can be translucent

Tiff, 23 uc and 18.3 > 4

Juliah

visitor

sooo

Guest

Juliah

visitor

sooo

Guest

Juliah

visitor

sooo

Guest

Juliah

visitor

blue_angel

Guest

Juliah

visitor

sooo

Guest

Juliah

visitor

sooo

Guest

Juliah

visitor

pocossin

visitor

Juliah

visitor

sooo

Guest

Juliah

visitor

sooo

Guest