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#8 "Inquire again..." So I finally did...

willow

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Hi all,

As I think I've mentioned in previous topics on my evolving outlook/work, I've gotten answers more than once that include #8, with it's line:

"Inquire of the oracle once again
Whether you possess sublimity, constancy, and perseverance;"

And I've always hesitated to ask - out of a certain trepidation, and also because I couldn't quite figure out how to ask the question.

Well, today, once again #8 comes up, and, almost like batting a ball back in a tennis match, I finally just go, "OK, do I?"

So, of course, the first rule I'm breaking is asking a yes-no question. And second, I'm not adding any sort of "in this particular case" qualifier, as I imagine is intended.

The answer I got was #34 (The Power of the Great/Man of Stone) changing to #7 (The Army/Legion,Leader) ...moving lines 1,3,4.

These are both Hexagrams that have figured in related readings in previous months, so I get the sense that I'm getting a valid answer - but in a way, I'm still wondering, what have I asked, and also what does it mean?

Any thoughts?
 
C

candid

Guest
Hi Willow,

The way I?ve always interpreted that was based on the continuing line: Whether you possess sublimity, constancy, and perseverance; then there's no blame.

So in other words, what is my present character issue as it pertains to the subject? Do I need to adjust it or is it correct and in harmony with the spirit of holding together? The answers I?ve gotten on this second inquiry has always seemed appropriate, so my deduction is that it was the correct meaning and application.

Take care,
~Candid
 

lindsay

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Dear Willow,

Hex 8 may not be about character issues at all. Here is a traditional translation I made a few years ago with notes. Of course, Wilhelm's translation is just as valid, and modernist translators like LiSe have a very different take on the text of the guaci or judgment from either mine or Wilhelm's. You have to go with the version that makes the most sense to you. I just offer this as another possibility for thinking about Hex 8. Hope it helps.

Guaci for Hexagram 8, Bi in Chinese --

bi3 ji2
association good fortune

yuan2 shi4
repeating the yarrow-stalk oracle

yuan2 yong3 zhen1
for the primordial everlasting steadfast

wu2 jiu4
no regret

bu4 ning2 fang1 lai2
not tranquil place come

hou4 fu1 xiong1
late man misfortune

Translation --
Association leads to good fortune.
Consulting the oracle
for the primordial, everlasting, and steadfast
is beyond reproach.
Those in turmoil should come forward,
but latecomers will meet with misfortune.

The Name and Its Associations --
Bi means "grouping" or "association," primarily in the sense of how we join with other people to form social groups. It focuses on the feeling of togetherness, unity and harmony necessary for successful association.

Certain clues and implications derived from the hexagram and its texts may reveal the conditions contributing to group solidarity and making Bi possible. The first condition is hierarchical organization within the group. The character Bi evolved from an ancient pictograph showing two people walking in single file, one behind the other. Such a symbol implies a social structure of first and second place, leader and follower, with cooperation between the two. In this regard, one should not ignore the structure of the hexagram itself, which features a single strong yang line in the position of the ruler (Line 5) among five subordinate weak yin lines. This structure may well represent the proper structure of a group and emphasize the pivotal role of hierarchical leadership in Bi. A second condition for Bi is the subordination of individual interest to the group purpose, unity within diversity, or group discipline. One modern scholar has observed that the character Bi once designated an ancient Chinese social unit or neighborhood organization composed of different clans and headed by a community leader (HW, p. 142). Although the composition of this group was diverse, it focused on resolving issues of general concern. The local Bi was an association of people of unequal rank and varied social background under the direction of a single local leader for the greater good of the community. Related to this is a third condition, focus or direction. A successful group must have a purpose for existing. The ancient neighborhood Bi focused on maintaining local harmony. The yaoci of Line 5 warns that association without direction leads to misfortune. Finally, a fourth condition for Bi is a loyal and committed membership. Members must be sincerely devoted to the success of the group. This is the meaning of the yaoci of Line 1, and the yaoci of Line 2 maintains that the desire for association should proceed straight from the heart. Thus it appears that leadership, discipline, purpose, and loyalty all contribute to the formation of Bi, and insure the good fortune promised by the guaci on Bi's behalf.

Bi usually refers to social grouping, but it may also indicate conceptual association. Bi may point to how we group or categorize other people, things, and ideas; how we classify, rank, arrange, and characterize; how we make connections, associations, ties, links, and bonds. Whenever we put things together or consider things as linked to other things, we engage in a Bi-related activity. Synthesis and generalization are abstract forms of conceptual grouping. Such grouping may even be faulty or dangerous, as in the case of prejudice or xenophobia.

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Bi is capable of generating powerful forces or synergies that bind its members together and direct them toward great and sustained efforts for the accomplishment of specific goals. A group or association is a kind of super-organism, with a psychology, physiology, and life-cycle of its own. Just as the human body can be viewed as an association of organs, muscles, and bones, so can a social group be considered a living organism composed of diverse but unified members. It is this unity, this essential characteristic of grouping, that defines the subject of the hexagram Bi.

The Guaci --
The initial assertion that "association leads to good fortune" (b4i ji2) implies that at this moment good fortune is likely to proceed from (1) creating or strengthening an association, (2) acting within the context of some existing association, or (3) contemplating the nature of certain associations or the idea of association itself. Practically speaking, these three possibilities represent quite different approaches to the notion of association (bi), and the guaci acknowledges the complexity and ambiguity of the current situation by recommending further consultation of the "yarrow-stalk oracle" (shi) for clarification. Presumably one is supposed to ask specifically about some "association"-related issue.

The character shi refers explicitly to divination by means of yarrow stalks. Its appearance here, and also in the guaci of Hexagram 4 (Meng), suggests that the yarrow-stalk oracle existed before the composition of the Yijing (or at least the guaci texts), since a thing must exist before it can refer to itself. If this is so, then even the earliest sections of the Yijing may be composites of contemporary comment and still more ancient oracular materials. The Yijing, it appears, is not a simple transcription of the original yarrow-stalk oracle texts, but an edited version of them. The guaci mentioning shi imply that the yarrow-stalk oracle was thoroughly developed and well-established, complete with a clear function and detailed etiquette, by the time the present texts were composed.

This guaci offers glimpses of how the yarrow-stalk oracle works. What the oracle seems to offer is access to "the primordial, everlasting, and steadfast" (yuan2 yong3 zhen1 -- cf. the guaci of hexagrams 1, 2, and 3 for similar metaphysical language): in other words, access to the Supreme Ultimate. Seeking such contact for the sake of clear and correct understanding is surely "without blame" or "beyond reproach" (wu2 jiu4). Consulting the oracle is an accepted method of communing with the transcendent order and obtaining insight and direction for serious matters. Indeed, "people from an unsettled place" (bu4 ning2 fang1) -- generally interpreted as "those in turmoil" -- are encouraged to "come forward" (lai2), that is, to consult the oracle freely. In this case, the phrase bu4 ning2 fang1 may refer specifically to members of a group that lacks bi, the unity of true association or social harmony. One historical function of the yarrow-stalk oracle may have been the restoration of community peace or group solidarity by means of contact with "the primordial, everlasting, and steadfast." Such a function certainly seems implicit in this guaci, since it makes a particular connection between bi and divination.

The guaci concludes with what may be considered a point of oracular etiquette by warning that "latecomers" (hou4 fu1, "late men") will suffer misfortune (xiong1, the opposite of ji2) for their tardiness. While this statement may simply refer to the profanity of querents who are thoughtless in their dealings with the oracle -- we know from the guaci of Hexagram 4 that the oracle is much concerned with its own dignity -- I think it more likely indicates that one should consult the oracle in a timely manner: before it is too late, before matters are irreversibly settled, while there is still time to work toward success. A "late man" (hou4 fu1) is one who comes to the oracle only when it is too late to do anything about the situation. Such a person is sure to suffer misfortune.
 
C

candid

Guest
Really interesting, Lindsay. Thorough, to say the least! Thank you.
 

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