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I feel so sad Hex 23.5>20

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goddessliss

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I feel so sad at the moment, not depressed, just sad.

My marriage broke up over 6 years ago and with that the breaking apart of the whole family unit and it appears we've never recovered from it.
The last time my 3 sons and I were together in a united, connected and happy way was Christmas 2010. Since then two grandchildren have been born but we all still seem to be stuck in the hurt and pain of the past breakdown - we have and do talk about it on the odd occasion but still it seems no one's moving forward from it and I'm so over spending very little time with any of my sons let alone altogether.
The last two Christmases I've spent without any of my boys and any other celebratory holidays or any public holidays for years I have spent on my own and I can't see it changing anytime soon.
I have attempted to talk to them about it but they all make excuses like they're too busy etc. but it's not like we live a long, long way from each other it's just a bit over an hours plane flight away and not all that expensive.

Last night I couldn't sleep and feel very sad so I decided to deactivate my fb account which is their way of 'checking in' that I'm ok and I'm intending not to respond to any phone calls and text messages until they ask if I'm really ok by way of a voice mail. Gosh it sounds like I'm chucking a tantrum but I can't think of any other way to get them to hear me and find a way to bring us back together and create a new history for us all.

What is the potential of my attempt to bring my family back together

Hex 23.5>20

This looks good to me Hex 23 - Shedding (the past) and line 5 seems to favour the tide turning in a positive way.
thanks
Liss
 

Olga Super Star

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Hi Liss

sorry to hear you're sad.
Let's make it temporary.

You had this line in the past too, and it turned out well for you, didn't it?

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...74-still-no-child-support-payments-23-5-gt-20

LiSe says:
6 at 5: A string of fish. Favor through the palace people. There will be harvest.
Do not expect others to recognize your crude self as valuable. It feels kind of humiliating, that you have to show something, instead of just being good enough yourself. But if you can let go of pride, and find your pride in your own heart, the string of fish will also bring good luck to you. Then the fishes are offered as a sacrifice to ones higher authority as well.


It seems it's suggesting to find pride in yourself, be proud of what you are even if you are by yourself and don't feel recognized by your sons, could it be? Make connections with other people possibly? instead of just stay alone? and this will bring you your sons back.

Hope you will forgive me if the reading is inaccurate - still learning :bows:
 
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butterfly spider

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Hello - something about this situation resonates with me. Sorry you are feeling sad
I agree with Olga - but maybe I can just add to it
I think we have reached the age where we need to start worrying less about what our children think and trying too hard. We need to take control of what we want to do. If this means deleting fb accounts then fine. I think that the casting deals with your feelings of sadness. It is telling you to make yourself the centre of the universe for a while - feel less sad - create a beautiful bubble around yourself. Make yourself gorgeous
Then let your children decide to visit you - not because you are sad but because they see you as a beautiful mother

When I have had hex 20 it has always been about making myself beautiful

It is sunny here so hopefully a bit of sunshine will transverse the Globe.

A poem my son says when I am feeling sad:
I like to squeeze bananas
I like to squeeze ripe plums
But most of all when Were feeling sad
We like to squeeze our mums

Enjoy the space and the time to consider your universe. The children will return when they are sad or lonely and then you will be the most help possible by being this wonderful woman. Not sad at all ...

Xxxx
 
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butterfly spider

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Have just returned from swimming in an outdoor lido
There were lots of children with their mums and I had a passing thought of how sad that my son has now turned 16 and this period of my life is over
Then I thought how nice it was to be able to sit and relax and enjoy the sunshine without worrying about sandwiches ir supervision. I have done that. I have myself to consider now - and to a certain extent only have control over me. My 16'year old son came with me - he enjoyed himself but it was on his terms. He swam alongside me but We swam independently. He got
Out
To read his book - I stayed in. I should feel chuffed that he wanted to go swimming with me at all!!

It sounds easy to tell you what you should do - I rarely take my own counsel.
Xx
 

innertruth

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Hi,,,
just from my experience, 23 meant always to stop thinking in that way, break this cycle of thoughts!
and 20 - Look on the situation from another more detached perspective.

23.5 is the most positive line.
 
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goddessliss

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Thanks for your responses although they don't sound right for my situation except
Innertruth's words which definitely resonate with me so thanks for sharing your experience.

I don't measure my selfworth by the amount of time my children spend with me nor do I care whether they like me or not because I know that they do. No it's nothing to do with that but as a mum and the love of family I miss our quality time together as a family altogether as we have so much fun and love abounds. Sure I've had my moments with each of them over these last six years good and bad but our relationships have grown in the most positive way because of these experiences.
I have my own settled life now I'm happy to say. In a home I love by the sea. I run a craft group, have built gardens for my herbs and veges to sell at the markets along with the handmade items from the craft group.
So no it's nothing to do with that I just miss the family getting together and am looking for a way to make this happen once more without the memories of the past interfering.

Oh well I will just have to wait and see, perhaps the sadness is just me grieving for the loss of these get togethers.
 
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butterfly spider

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Liss
I got from your first message that you were moved to delete your fb links with your children to show them just how much you felt about their lack of contact and communication and visits. You asked why were you so sad. You said that you wanted your children to spend celebratory days with you and be a happy family. You also ask within the question what is the potential for you to be a happy family again.

I know that you have a nice place to live now (sans heavy machinery and nasty landlord)
Also your craft business is doing well. It's just that you are sad because your children so not seem to want to visit. The reading is not at all negative but from my own completely outside perspective you need to take in board the resonance if Innertruth and make your children want to come and see you. They will of course and the more you appear to be having a great time and
Actually be someone whom they want to visit the cycle can
Be broken. Maybe they have real problems within their own lives and nothing is worse than feeling as if they need to visit because you are sad or needy.

Could you not tell them that you are hiring a place for a week and anyone is welcome if they want to come sort of thing.

If you felt compelled to delete Facebook just to make them listen to you then I think you need to take a different tak
Xx
 

Trojina

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BTW recently Hilary wrote a note in wiki about 23.5. She pointed out the fish are dead. They are gutted, dried and strung up. So they are no longer being fishes, they lost their lives BUT their lives are transformed to something else. Food.

I think she says what appears as loss is from a wider viewpoint change of state.


I recently read somewhere that depression (I know your question isn't about depression but I thought I'd mention it) is where a person realises what they thought supported them supports them no longer. Depression occurs when they do not want to acknowledge this. Who wants to acknowledge their happy marriage is over and so on. It is part of the human condition that those we love dearly and spend all our time with one year may not be with us 5 years later. All the time things are changing and life is a journey of the heart more than anything I think. I think your sadness is natural but also simply part of your journey. From a wider perspective, which we don't always have access to, a greater transformation in your family relationships may be taking place. These can take place amidst absence.

So perhaps you haven't lost things, well you have, but that loss is part of a greater process of transformation of all your relationships with them. To be honest I think absence is one of the greatest transformers of all in terms of relationships. Sometimes one cannot even see a relationship clearly, one's own role in it and so on, until after many years of absence.

I don't think your sons are entirely absent from what you say, rather they are more distant than you'd like, but that too can be a transformative thing.


I had some friends I made, a couple, 28 years ago. 12 years ago we drifted apart and I thought that was it. Then I saw them again and now we are friends again but quite different kinds of friends to what we were before the 12 year gap.


I don't believe anything real is truly lost. Not wishes or dreams or relationships. They aren't lost, they are transformed into something else. When we can't see that whole process because of our perspective naturally we may be very sad.
 

Trojina

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Oh I know it can get bloody annoying when people talk about a 'wider perspective' at times when one is deeply sad....so apologies for that, but vocabulary is limited with these things.
 
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butterfly spider

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Liss. I think Trojina is absolutely spot on here and it is what I was trying to say but perhaps a bit clunkily.
By having the absence from your children things will move forward and transform as time goes on. It is easy to feel upset and sad about things when we so much want
Them to be lovely

In the meantime do something really lovely - buy a nice piece of material have your nails done go for a bunker jump - whatever you like. Anything that makes you feel lovely -
X
 
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butterfly spider

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I meant bungee jump you could try a high ropes course - that does focus the mind on the immediate!
 
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goddessliss

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Thanks Trojina in retrospect I realise it's not the amount of times that we have contact but the quality in which it appears.
It's apparent to me that they care a great deal about me and can be quite supportive in many ways but at present I guess I'm kinda comparing it to a fairweather friend and social media makes it a whole lot easier to NOT spend quality time together as you can already see what's going on for others so that's really my reason for deactivating my fb account.
Many parents I talk to say the same about their own children - basically they've no time for their parents and you only hear from them when they want something so I appreciate I'm not alone in this.
I remember years ago when my middle son was 18 months old, quite a difficult baby and a young man in his 20's made the comment - "I guess I better go and visit my 'old lady'(mum) before she starts hassling me". I remember thinking 'really, I'm doing all this hard work for them just to have that attitude towards me'.

Getting back to my original question - What is the potential of my attempt to bring my family back together (I should have added for quality family time). The question wasn't why am I so sad as I already know the answer to that.
In my mind I was thinking hanging out together for a proper family time as in a week or so in each others company.
The potential looks good to me as whatever takes place re this question it looks like a transformational time for myself.
 
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butterfly spider

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You just sounded so sad...
I think Olga and I picked up in that
What you now say makes more sense and your casting really positive for you all
Sometimes when you get a response in here that doesn't always match the response you were expecting it makes you look at your question again in a different way By looking at a response and saying to yourself NO that is not what I meant at all - can focus the mind on the real root of the problem. It can help to see the way others see your situation. A bit like when your feeling a bit grim grubby and dishevelled - someone comes up to you and says how well you look. It sort of kick starts a transformation - however temporary
There are many different types of sad and in this case it is only temporary. You glimpse yourself in the mirror and think - I don't look so bad then?
I was thinking of you last night and the book Peace at Last about a hippo sprung to mind ....
Hope things progress
X
 
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Tim K

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I think the reading is very positive, showing you catching all these fishes (relatives), tying them on single common thread (interest/activity) and reeling them in.

Being in a lighthouse (20) will help, it gives a wider view on what that thread(activity) could be (fishing perhaps ? :) )
 
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goddessliss

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Things have progressed in a very positive way. My middle son rang me and we spoke for a couple of hours which is not unusual but this time the content was a little different.

The outcome is exactly what ashteroid said - it's agreed that we'll all come together this Christmas, probably camping at my place where we can see the lighthouse and definitely go fishing. Haha
 

Trojina

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Last night I couldn't sleep and feel very sad so I decided to deactivate my fb account which is their way of 'checking in' that I'm ok and I'm intending not to respond to any phone calls and text messages until they ask if I'm really ok by way of a voice mail. Gosh it sounds like I'm chucking a tantrum but I can't think of any other way to get them to hear me and find a way to bring us back together and create a new history for us all.

Just picking up on this. At first I didn't get what you meant or see the connection with facebook. Now I see and it reminds me of a similar situation with a friend. I've been confused on my own feelings about it..,is it a similar kind of thing ?

We used to speak on the phone and meet up maybe every couple of months. She got sick, then busy so this fell by the wayside so I thought to myself 'ah well our friendship has run it's course we are drifting apart....sad but that's how it goes'.

However she texts me asking how I am and so on. I get mixed feelings on this

1. it's nice you text to ask how I am

2. it makes me feel crap that you text because it reminds me you don't actually want to speak to me. Your text means there will be no phone calls.


:confused:


I think there's a point where contact becomes so minimised one wonders if it's worth bothering. OTOH I ask myself surely this is better than just not communicating at all ? I don't know. Sometimes I think it would be better if she just let me go because each time she texts it reminds me she won't call me like she used to.

I guess you mean facebook contact is a poor substitute for real live communication. I agree. Some relationships need a bit more real life time to continue.

A bit off topic/thread hijack there but I wondered if others encountered these mixed feelings about texts or facebook communication instead of live talking or meeting ?
 

Tim K

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Trojina, I share your feelings about talking in person and electronic communication. There is definitely less feelings and emotions in the latter. And sometimes it's more useful but only for work related things I guess, it gives you time to think about your answer. Or maybe you are busy doing something/watching TV and you don't want anyone to interrupt.

However I'm using this to my advantage: I've limited communication with my employer to e-mails because I can't stand him for more than 10 minutes, and he likes to talk alot about the same things over and over.
Now he just writes what he wants me to do (programming/database tasks) and that's it :) (I'm working from home)
No emotions no feelings no annoyances, all are happy.
 

pink_panther

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Goddessliss,

It seems to me that 23.5 is saying you will be influential in convincing others to meet your needs, however I wonder if hexagram 20 is asking you to reconsider how you go about it.

I feel that hexagram 23 is about tearing down outdated ways of thinking so that you can build anew. You can't be successful if you keep working from an outdated mode of thinking.


Not related to the Iching, but just human nature in general. Don't try and manipulate them or guilt trip them into asking about your well being. They will resent you for it. I completely understand how you feel, but they are not going to look at it that way.

Is it possible for you to visit them instead of them visiting you? It sounds like things are a bit strained right now and perhaps the best option may be by making baby steps. Do you have Skype? This can be a great way to stay in touch and start slowly opening the lines of communication that could eventually lead to more visits and less strained communication.

I think overall this is a positive reading, it's just telling you, you need to change your perspective.

-Pink Panther :)
 
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goddessliss

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Thank you Pink Panther although I think you're missing the point which fortunately Trojina has understood. We are in constant contact and at times I visit them, we use Skype and other forms of communications but the quality of being together in the physical presence of all family members, for at the very least a few days so we can relax and enjoy each other without distraction, is what I'm talking about.
Family time of love, gratefulness and joy that we have each other in our lives.
There was and never has been any manipulation nor guilt tripping. It's about being honest about how I feel and how they respond to that (like anybody when you tell them how you feel) is entirely up to them.
If you don't tell someone how you are feeling then how are they supposed to know and by not telling them it is doing both a disservice to yourself and the other party and can bring trouble or the end to a relationship that needn't have happened.
 
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goddessliss

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I guess you mean facebook contact is a poor substitute for real live communication. I agree. Some relationships need a bit more real life time to continue.

A bit off topic/thread hijack there but I wondered if others encountered these mixed feelings about texts or facebook communication instead of live talking or meeting ?

This is what I'm talking about. If I had a friend similar to Trojina's situation I believe there are two things I can do. Either accept this is how it is or drop the friendship altogether as it is not meeting my needs. However when it comes to your children it's a little more difficult to make such a decision so I decided to take steps to change the situation to see what would happen. If they had said 'no mum that's just how it is' I would have then had to rethink the situation of our relationship/s.

I also agree with ashteroid. There are some situations where thank Goddess we can limit our conversations but still have effective communication. I've a couple of friends who I sometimes wonder why they don't pass out they talk so much how on earth do they breath in between. These are the ones I like to chat to online as at least then I can have a chance to talk with them and not just be on the listening end.
Ashteroid also commented that by using electronic communication it gives you time to think which I also agree with although these days when in 'proper' conversation I have no hesitation in saying "I need to think about it" and have taught myself to respond rather than react even if something gets me riled up.

I'm happy for the thread to be hijacked and was hoping it would actually, as I'm interested if others feel the same way as me about electronic communication and personal relationships, so thanks to Trojina and Ashteroid.

In the bigger picture it's all about what you're are prepared to accept in terms of relationships and how you go about improving and maintaining positive relationships with others.
It's about whatever works for you.
My son said he is very happy that I was honest with him and then shared with me a few things that made me understand his perspective on the lack of family get togethers.
Broken families are sadly, Worldwide, and everyone has their own emotions to deal with and taking the time to create a new happy and positive history is sadly lacking I think.
My son also shared with me that although it was a messed up time he's always felt loved by me and that he is grateful that there was no feud between his father and I let alone one fuelled with bitterness.
 
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oceangirl

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Just updating this thread as it covered so much more than the original question. 2 out of 3 of my boys came for Christmas snd my daughter in law and two granchildren but it turned out very badly but because it did it sorted out a few dysfunctional things for us. At this point in time I've got on more with my own life although I still crave for a close family dynamic. I've had to accept it's just not going to be how I want it to be but our relationships are thriving nonetheless.
 
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oceangirl

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Do you know rereading this thread now I think I was in denial about a lot of things and you were all right in your interpretations......good for me to see how far I've come now in retrospect.
 

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