19.2.5 -> 3

clarissa · Jul 11, 2005

I received this after I asked,

"Where is this relationship heading right now?"

I also asked,

"What's he doing about our relationship right now?"

...and got 44 unchanging. I really don't know how to interpret that given the question. I asked it because the ball is in his court so to speak at this time.

I also asked,
"Where does this relationship stand at this time?"

14.2.4.5.6 -> 63

"How does he feel about me?"

63.1.2 -> 48

Any insight?

jte · Jul 12, 2005

"Any insight?"

Clarissa, it seems like you're asking a lot of questions about this one topic.

It's understandable when someone is important to you, but it's not necessarily a healthy thing to do. Others around here have been down that path before and I think all too often it just doesn't help matters...

On those readings, I think they're particularly positive for the moment but indicate difficulties in the future - my takes are:

19 -> 3 - it's great right now, but the 3 worries me - possibly the rapid initial advance hits difficulties. This is also predicted in the 19 main text.

44 - the "strong woman who should not be married/associated with for too long" - could this be you? (perhaps because you're too strong for him and thus ultimately would only be content with another instead...)

(P.S. From a male perspective: boy is that limited time when you *do* associate with her fun!) ;-)

14 -> 63. Again, looking Hex to resulting Hex, the great thing comes to an end (sort of parallels 19 -> 3).

63.1.2 -> 48. Less sure on this one - perhaps he's a little overwhelmed... too much of a good thing sort of thing? That might sort of parallel the 44, too.

(BTW, if you're lucky Hilary will chime in with her usual caveat about precisely this sort of question. I'll leave it to her.)

As always, I might be wrong about any/all of these...

Best of luck,

- Jeff

clarissa · Jul 12, 2005

Jeff,

I see that you're viewing the resulting hexagram as the future. I thought it was more the context of the situation now.

clarissa · Jul 12, 2005

OK, here's the reason I asked....

None of these readings I've received on this issue so far have related in any way to what's actually going on as far as I can tell...and I've been keeping track. For example, absolutely nada is happening right now and it gave me 14 -> 63 and 19 -> 3. Hex 14 is especially puzzling since I'm not even currently in touch with this person LOL I was expecting something a bit more somber...or more descriptive of my current situation. What I'm receiving now isn't at all descriptive of the current situation.

I find this incredibly strange given the positive feelings people have here about the Yi and its ability to capture the essence of a particular situation. What's the explanation for my odd readings?

peace · Jul 12, 2005

Clarissa:

I'd look it all up in Carol Anthony. Her bottom line always is - "Stay independent, stay detached. Don't throw yourself away. Give other people the space to find their way."

You sound very scared and getting yourself centered may give you some objectivity - or at least some options to live your life in the meantime without the pain of obsessing.

Good luck.
Peace

clarissa · Jul 12, 2005

I'm not scared...because this issue I'm asking about isn't THAT important to me. It's just a guy that I met once in an unusual manner and I thought this might be the perfect subject to ask about. I have been keeping track of the readings I've received and none of them seem to have any relation whatsoever to what I have experienced so far regarding the issue.

There was ONE instance where I asked a question and the answer did seem to be right on target. However, I think we have the tendency to remember the hits and not the misses. Is it all just wishful thinking?

seeker · Jul 12, 2005

If it isn't that important, why did you think it would be the perfect thing to ask about? Maybe I am misunderstanding, but it sounds like you were using this as a test case to see how accurate your responses would be. If that is the case, well, if you play with Yi, they will probably play back

If that is not the case, then I am still confused as to why you would ask about something that was not important to you. You also mention wishful thinking, is it possible its more important to you than you think???

Something else I have found is that sometimes a reading seems not to relate or to be inaccurate, but then I find another interpretatation or get input from someone here and it suddenly falls into place. Or sometimes you get answers that aren't exactly correct, but they set you in a particular direction and get you where you need to be. For instance, a few months ago I got 32 in regards to a relationship question, so I pursued it. The guy turned out to be a major jerk, not at all what I expected, but it took me almost 2 months to figure that out. The way I developed and what I learned along the way though was invaluable to me, but if I had gotten a negative response from Yi, I would not have pursued it at all. My theory is that Yi gave me the answer I needed so that I would take the right path and learn what I needed to. I don't always follow my own advice, but I always pass on that my experience is that if you just ask Yi what you need to do or what you need to know and follow it, you can't go wrong. You have to trust in the path without focusing on the outcome. Trust that you will end up where you are supposed to even if it isn't where you thought you wanted to be.

jte · Jul 13, 2005

"I see that you're viewing the resulting hexagram as the future. I thought it was more the context of the situation now."

In my view, it can be either - I interpret as is logical for the question on a case-by-case basis. I proceed under the assumption that the Yi is in fact attempting to communicate with me in a meaningful way. So, it's up to me to figure out how to interpet the particular communication.

"None of these readings I've received on this issue so far have related in any way to what's actually going on ... What I'm receiving now isn't at all descriptive of the current situation. I'm not even currently in touch with this person... What's the explanation for my odd readings?"

Not sure - but perhaps because you asked meaningless questions (in the sense that they referred to a relationship that doesn't actually exist), you got meaningless answers?

Certainly I was interpreting, filling in the meaning, on the basis of false assumptions about the context behind the questions.

"Is it all just wishful thinking?"

I'm fairly certain that it's not. Still, ultimately that's a question you have to ask (and answer for) yourself...

- Jeff

clarissa · Jul 13, 2005

Seeker,

So, the Yi steered you into a relationship that wasn't good in order to "help" you. You don't think that you are attempting to justify the Yi's clearly incorrect response? I'm sure everyone here has heard this critique. However, I think it's a valid question.

clarissa · Jul 13, 2005

Jeff,

I didn't view the questions as meaningless because there IS a relationship of sorts here. It's just that it isn't what the Yi is saying it is. That's puzzling. Anyway...

I asked something completely different. I asked, "What should *I* be doing regarding this issue?" and received,

52.5.6 -> 39

LOL I should keep my mouth shut and "keep still".

gene · Jul 13, 2005

Clarissa

It might be a good idea to listen to what people are saying to you. The I Ching is not to be toyed with, it has a wisdom and intelligence of its own. It doesn't always give us answers to what we want, it will answer deeper questions. But to a certain extent, I think you are toying with those who are trying to help you too. Maybe that is a tendency of yours?

At any rate. Line two and five are the central lines of any trigram and as such become rulers. When line two and five change, and one is yin and one is yang, there is a chance of a relationship. But what relationship here? When line two is yang, and line five is yin, neither line is in its proper place. The ruler of the lower trigram is stronger than the ruler in the upper trigram. In this case, someone often, in a sense, is condescending. Are you condescending toward the I Ching? Just something for you to think about. For the I Ching is not a toy to be played with. One asks with sincerity. There is no rule that says the I Ching has to give you what you want. If you condescend toward it, it just might do the same toward you.

Gene

clarissa · Jul 13, 2005

Gene,

You said,

"...it has a wisdom and intelligence of its own."

You really believe that? That it's somehow...alive?

As for asking with sincerity, I was asking with sincerity..and I received answers that didn't reflect what was actually going on...in any way. I'm sorry to bust the bubble of religious fervor here regarding this thing but I'm not impressed with its accuracy. So, you're right that I'm somewhat condescending now. Sure. Who wouldn't be?

gene · Jul 13, 2005

Clarissa

Precisely, so what are you doing here?

Gene

clarissa · Jul 13, 2005

Gene,

I was curious. I didn't realize that people had religious-style views about this oracle. However, I'm starting to see that this is indeed the case.

Also, I'm not a skeptic. In other words, I am perfectly willing to believe in something that I don't understand...IF I see it working. I haven't seen that here. That's all I'm saying.

gene · Jul 13, 2005

Clarissa

There is nothing religious about what I am saying at all. It is simply the truth. I am sorry you do not have the sophistication and understanding to recognize that. But as you say... to each his own.

Gene

clarissa · Jul 13, 2005

"It is simply the truth. I am sorry you do not have the sophistication and understanding to recognize that."

Well OK! LOL

bruce · Jul 13, 2005

Clarissa,

I believe you are correct that there is a sort of religious view some have toward the Yi. People have different inherent personalities and natures. I think it's helpful to note the value of each perspective rather than to dismiss any of them.

"Where is this relationship heading right now?" 19.2.5 -> 3

The relationship is in a tangle, and it can still be sorted out, but it will take the two of you working together (wisely) to make it right.

I don?t see this as ?predicting the future? but rather opening the way to make something of it for the future.

hilary · Jul 13, 2005

Agreeing with Bruce (it happens

). I also feel Yi has a wisdom and intelligence of its own, on the basis of lots of personal experience. (I didn't believe anything of the kind when I first encountered it.) That means that if it ever seems 'not to work', my first question is what I'm doing wrong. But obviously without that experience I'd see it differently. I like having someone here to make the rational, sceptical noises from time to time.

Also in my experience, the most helpful readings are the ones I truly need. It's a fairly safe bet that if I just say, 'Jump!' the oracle will say something other than 'How high?'

Wild guess: if you're interested in the oracle now, maybe it's because there is something you really want to ask about? In which case it's understandable to want to do some 'test cases' before getting to the important stuff... but that might not work.

Just so as not to disappoint Jeff: yes, I would suggest asking about yourself and what is within your power to change. (Most of the time, anyway.) Trying to see inside someone else's head with Yi (when they may or may not want you there) is a seriously tricky business.

Looking at your readings, I would say
a) scads of potential for this to go a long way. If not within this relationship, then it can still be the vehicle for you to increase your self-awareness, self-confidence, and just generally your sense of being in charge.
b) what happens or where it heads depends on what both of you do
c) you may feel the ball is in his court, but he feels it's very much in yours. So it all comes down to what you do.

63.1 speaks of wanting to hold back, not commit. 63.2 speaks of something lost that will come back without being pursued.
44 - unchanging, so quite possibly he has come to a halt on 44 and isn't doing anything. The powerful woman is a daunting prospect; it's not safe to grab her. Like Jeff, I see a connection between those two readings.

That's all quick, and bitty, and on what I just said myself is dodgy territory. If he's contacted you in the meantime of his own initiative to declare his undying love, please don't hesitate to let us know.

gypsy · Jul 13, 2005

Clarissa...you said you were asking about a guy you...."met once in an unuusal manner"....and whom you are not even in touch with...

YOu are not even really in a relationship with this man...

HOw the heck do you expect to ask questions about this non-specific, very vague issue and get any kinds of answers that are specific and meaningful?

Excuse me, but that is "toying" with the Book of Changes; it isnt a question that is directly linked to your current energies, other than the fact that you are thinking of it, in the way that a school girl plucks flower petals: "he loves me, he loves me not..."

clarissa · Jul 14, 2005

Gypsy,

Since I'm not a stranger to him why wouldn't I be able to ask the Yi about the situation? I have to be in a hot and heavy romance to ask questions and get answers?

Also, I wasn't toying with it. I was sincere in my questions, and it's not a vague issue.

gene · Jul 14, 2005

And Hilary...

I have certainly seen a growth or change in the way you perceive things even since I have been on here. Sometimes things sneak up on us. The universe (at the risk of sounding religious) often has to hit us on the head so to speak to get our attention. But then, that is what life is all about, a learning school, where we "grow our souls."

Gene

gypsy · Jul 14, 2005

Clarissa, Of course you can ask about anything you want , but if I asked the yi something like "what's going on with me and this guy I met a few months ago and whom i dont really talk to anymore"...the answer I get could mean ANYTHING...it is just not a fair grounds for then standing up and saying "the Yi doesnt work! Its a silly religious belief." (in so many words)

believe me, with a little sincere practice and an open heart, and the intent to really know what you need to know about matters close to your heart, the I Ching will without question not disappoint you. You have to use it yourself and give it a fair amount of sincere time and effort. It will astound, confound, and literally take your breath away at times, but it will not disappoint you

My advice is to stay away from openended relationship questions for awhile,
at least until you get a relationship going with this process here, with the I Ching.

It may not be "alive" in the actual sense but it certainly provides a focal point where wisdom, intuition, and synchronicity come together, illuminating what we need to know.

bruce · Jul 14, 2005

Well said, Gypsy.

pakua · Jul 14, 2005

I've been wondering about this. It seems to me, if you're not in a "real" relationship, Yi won't tell you much that's useful.

Would others agree?

bruce · Jul 14, 2005

Hi Pakua,

Others may, and likely will, disagree with me on this. The way I *think* Yi views relationships is as an extension of our own being. I don?t think Yi concerns itself with the kinds of things we typically do, where relationships are concerned, or anything for that matter. Let?s face it, our concerns are mostly about us. So I think Yi speaks to the relationship in us. The result of that then reaches outward to the other person in question, to unify, endure or separate.

To go a bit farther out on the limb, whatever we see, we see because it lives somewhere in us. The other person has significance when they resonate something within ourselves. The vibe either draws us together, repels us, or finds a spot in-between that maintains the relationship near where it already is.

I think the Yi doesn?t discriminate the way we do. It seems to treat all relational matters in the same way, whether it?s a 24/7 real time relationship, a long distance or virtual relationship, a friendship, a boss, co-worker etc. It?s all the relationship within ourselves that I think the Yi speaks to.

That?s another reason why it?s so funny when someone asks ?what does he/she think of me?? What do you think of yourself? If you can find the other person in there, he/she will tell you. If you can?t, then at least ask the one that lives outside of you. But the answer is always to be found within, I believe. And I think that?s what Yi speaks to.

When two people find each other within themselves and they vibrate together at the same frequency, that is unity. Together they make a new song; one that neither of them without the other could write or sing. That same unifying principle exists within each person. So then when someone asks about the other person, who are they really asking about?

luz · Jul 14, 2005

I like what you say about relationships. It's really beautiful and it rings true.

But, what does that mean, and not only for relationship questions? In all matters in life we are mostly concerned with ourselves (lovely creatures that we are

).

On the one hand, I hear you can ask questions about anything, it all lives within you but on the other hand... as long as you expect the answers to come from outside, how can you really read the Yi?

bruce · Jul 14, 2005

Because they're not different, is what I'm saying.

In male/female relationships it's harder to see each other within yourself because you're the opposite sex. But that doesn't mean that yang doesn't live (somewhere) in the woman or that Yin doesn't live (somewhere) in the man. Right?

bruce · Jul 14, 2005

Why does a woman look up to a ?man of bronze?? her hero, let?s say. Isn?t it because he lives somewhere in her psyche, possibly even somewhere in her own genes?

Why does a man get all crazy inside when he sees a woman of beauty? It?s more than him being a superficial idiot. (well not always!) lol. But you see what I?m saying. Somewhere in his psyche she lives.

bruce · Jul 14, 2005

When the one outside doesn?t live up to the one inside, there?s disillusionment. And that?s the #1 cause of relational problems, isn?t it?

luz · Jul 14, 2005

Right..

I just wonder if the fact that we don't recognize this (also in other relationships) doesn't hinder our ability to interpret what the Yi says...

I just read your last two posts... I totally agree. The man in bronze lives mostly inside of us and that is why he's bound to disappoint!!! LOL

19.2.5 -> 3

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

peace

Guest

visitor

seeker

Guest

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

bruce

Guest

Administrator

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

bruce

Guest

visitor

bruce

Guest

visitor

bruce

Guest

bruce

Guest

bruce

Guest

visitor