The Inherent Bad Self

cal val · Nov 29, 2003

I want to try to illustrate my understanding of a particular line of a particular hexagram, and I need your help to do it.

If you'd like to participate, please open up Notepad or Word or whatever text editing program you have and just start writing about an experience you felt guilty for in your childhood... something you caused to happen that you wish you hadn't. It would be very helpful for this illustration if you would share it here. Of course, it's quite alright and understandable if you want to keep the answer to yourself. But please do try this, either publicly or privately, to feel the full impact of the meaning of the line I will announce at the end. For many of you, something will pop into your mind immediately. For others, just the act of writing (typing) will bring something from the back burner of your mind to the front.

I'll give you an example by using an experience of mine that came to mind quite readily. When I was eight years old, my half-sister explained to me where babies come from. I was very excited to have this new knowledge, and I shared it with everyone quite proudly. I told my mother quite proudly. She got very angry with my half-sister. There was a nasty and rather shocking scene and my half-sister was sent to live with our aunt in Texas.

At this point in time, it's important that you only share something you felt guilty about as a child here. There will be plenty of time for opinions and questions later. I'm going to go to the next step on Sunday night, 11/30, and then the next step on Monday night, 12/1. If you read this thread after the evening of 11/30 and want to experience my interpretation of this line personally rather than vicariously through the experience of others, then please stop here and do the exercise before you read the next post.

Thanks!

Love,

Val

bradford_h · Nov 29, 2003

Hi Val-
I never got really bad, and never really hurt anyone, but one night after swim team we stopped by an apartment building and borrowed a large cannister-type fire extinguisher. We drove around through a classy neighborhood in the foothills, spraying down all of the fancy cars with the foam. We got about thirty before the thing ran out. We even returned the unit to the apartment building. But in the morning I noticed a spot where a little bit of the foam had dripped onto our passenger side door. It had eaten the paint off, down to the metal.
b

cal val · Nov 29, 2003

Brad...

Errrr...I'm talking about the formative years here. Not when you were in your teens and already formative-d into Brad "Born to Bad" Hatcher...*grin* Try saying that three times fast.

I'm quite serious. It hit me like a flash of ligthening last night...not like a cream pie in the face. It's an important hexagram and important line, and I believe understanding it is an important step to understanding true peace.

Love,

Val

wanderer · Nov 29, 2003

When I was about seven, I changed the setting on my parents clock to shorten my violin practice time. When my dad got to work 10 minutes early the next day he was not pleased.

cal val · Nov 29, 2003

Wanderer...

I knew people would try to make "light" of this serious subject...you know why people do that don't you?...*grin*

Love,

Val

PS...Lucky for you your dad didn't send you to Texas to live with your aunt...eh?

joang · Nov 29, 2003

Val,
you know that old coat-holders' saying, "Let's you and him fight"? My story is like that. When I was in grade school, my best friend and another classmate got into an argument which I fanned into a fist fight between them, just for the fun of watching them go at it. My best friend got her front tooth broken, and her parents sued the other girl's parents for the dentist's bills. I, the instigator got away with it, scott free. Except for the guilty feeling.

I am curious to see what you make of these tales from the crib.

cal val · Nov 29, 2003

I love these stories of mischief making. I really do...especially since I had the perfect childhood of innocence and grace. Mother wore aprons and pearls and lipstick, her hair perfectly coifed every night when she greeted Father at the door with a kiss and a martini. And I played with my dolls or studied diligently or practiced ballet quietly as did my perfectly behaved siblings. So having never induldged in a moment of mischief making, I do enjoy living vicariously through those of you who have.

And I hope to hear many more such stories after I've interpreted the line. Meanwhile, I'm going through with this interpretation no matter how many eggs you drop on my head from the second floor landing. I sincerely hope some of you have already written down one of those excrutiating moments in your life that lived with you for a long time. This is sooooo cool. I swear you're going to love it.

Love,

Val

cal val · Nov 29, 2003

Oh Joang...

That's a great example! Thank you.

Love,

Val

cal val · Nov 29, 2003

Joang...

For the record, you hadn't posted your story yet when I started writing my post about mischief making. I was referring to the two boys in the back row there...not you...*grin*

Yours is a great example.

Love,

Val

joang · Nov 29, 2003

Val,
"Mother wore aprons and pearls and lipstick, her hair perfectly coifed every night when she greeted Father at the door with a kiss and a martini. And I played with my dolls or studied diligently or practiced ballet quietly as did my perfectly behaved siblings."

You're joking, right? Sounds like a 50's TV series.
;-)
The only time I played with (paper) dolls was when there was nothing badder to do.

Glad you liked my story.

Joan

cal val · Nov 29, 2003

Joang...

Oh no! You mean that wasn't MY life? That was actually the TV series, "Father Knows Best"???

*grin*

Love,

Val

cheiron · Nov 29, 2003

Val!

You want Bad?

I 'school refused' from the age of four? Oh, but I turned up everyday? I think the teachers would have preferred it if hadn?t?
<!-Attachment: carto1710.gif-!><CENTER><TABLE BORDER=1><TR><TD>

Kevin at School
carto1710.gif (27 k)</TD></TR></TABLE></CENTER><!-/Attachment-!>

But maybe that is not where you are coming from here?

Maybe the word is SHAME? this is the ?word? we avoid more than any other?

I won?t bore you with my countless shames? caught in bed with my lover by my? erm? lover? And much worse? to my surprise I grew up ( a little).

Shame is a very interesting space to explore? fairly deep and primitive? and if we can dump our value systems, even a little? then the process leading to the feeling of shame is really quite revealing.

The worst things I have done contravened my most basic instincts? but I am alive because of that?No shame? interesting that.

But maybe you are referring to what I ascribe to as Jung's shadow... We carry both sides of the coin... Jung ascribed the rise of Hitler and the gross atrocities to our denial of our potential for the shadow other... our dark side... slowly I am coming to like my dark side... and slowly it becomes less powerful... funny that my desire to make great efforts to do good have simultaneously lessened too... hmmm

I will butt out now and wait for your denouement?

Sitting and waiting

--Kevin

cal val · Nov 30, 2003

Hi Kevin...

This isn't about shame. I understand what you're saying, but that's a whole nother hexagram and thread. We're going after guilt or blame here.

More later.

Love,

Val

cheiron · Nov 30, 2003

Oh, OK... got lots of that too...

Watching the space

Warmly

--Kevin

hilary · Nov 30, 2003

I'm an odd case here: if I don't fit with your line, maybe I'll turn up in one of its relations. My parents' default assumption was, or seemed to me to be, parent right, child wrong. But I was constantly, furiously, indignantly convinced that it was child right, parent wrong, every time. So I felt frustrated and hard done by (all very hexagram 6) a great deal, but I don't think I ever conceded the point and felt guilty, like I was supposed to. Reflecting on some of the things I actually did, particularly to my long-suffering little brother, this is strange!

Sparhawk · Nov 30, 2003

When I was about 8, living in the country side in my native country, I was fascinated by all the wildlife around me.

Between our neighbor's house and ours there was a low wire fence supported by 3 inch pipe posts. The posts were uncapped and sometimes, very tiny birds we called 'ratoneras', nested inside them.

The first time I heard them chirping in there my first instinct was to get them out and see them. Remember, they were at the bottom of a post in the utmost darkness. The only thing that occurred to me was to use a stick. Needless to say, I didn't succeed in coercing them up. I did succeed, however, in killing them.

To this day, the memory of that day stays with me as if I did it this morning. One of the saddest days of my life.

Luis

cal val · Nov 30, 2003

Luis...

Another great example. Thank you. More tomorrow night. It should be interesting.

Love,

Val

davidl · Nov 30, 2003

Hi Val, (other children of the damned)

The first thing that came to mind was being 10. I was being a real **** head to my sister 6. Anyway my mother got the wrong end of the stick and blaming my sister put her in her room. I wasn't finished with her yet. I went around to her window and began to badger her from outside. She, furious, attempted to open the window, but it was stuck. She pushed and pushed until her hand came right through the glass, slashing a large vein in her arm. Blood was spurting, I ran and hid in the shed. She was rushed to hospital and had a number of stiches, I refused to accept any responsibility, claiming to have no part in the fiasco.

candid · Nov 30, 2003

When I was 5 I stole a pack of life saver candy from the supermarket. I cleverly hid them inside a cushion of a chair on our front porch. My granny appraoched me with them the next day, saying, don't you EVER steal anything again. To this day I don't know how she found out. Must have been in her tea leaf reading that morning. She always was sorta spooky that way. And the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

cal val · Dec 1, 2003

Alrighty then...

It's time to examine our lives. What we were looking for were memories that make us cringe rather than laugh when we look back...the ones in which the unpleasantness remains with us.

I have a series of questions to ask yourself.

What was your intent?

Did you know the consequences of your actions beforehand?

Did you threaten anyone's life to control their emotional reaction? (That's the only way you could possibly have had any responsibility for anyone else's actions or reaction... by threatening bodily harm or their life.) This one is very important.

Last question: you were only child...too young for adult responsibilties...too young to know the consequences of your actions. This was the time of your life you were just starting to learn all that...do you really deserve the blame? the guilt?

I'll let you think on those questions and leave this board open for more comments before I post the mystery hexagram and line tomorrow night.

Love to you all always,

Val

cal val · Dec 1, 2003

Again I'm going to use my story as an example to illustrate the point that we did not deserve the blame we accepted as children nor do we deserve to carry it for as many years as we have.

My intent was to share my exciting new knowledge. Nothing more, nothing less. I worshipped the ground my half-sister walked on. She was a Goddess to me. She was part Choctaw Indian and that made her a queen in my eyes. (I know that Native American is the PC term today, but I'm talking about my childhood perception here.) AND she was a beautiful teenage woman...so worldly...so sophisticated in my eyes. Her leaving us left a giant hole in my life. I had no idea it was "not okay" for me to know where babies came from. And I did not threaten my mother with bodily harm or death if she did not react violently to my news...so I had absolutely no control...no responsibility for her anger and decisions.

Even had my intent been to get my sister in trouble, I still had no control over my mother's emotions and no foreknowledge that my parents would go to the extent they did. I was not to blame for what happened. Yet I carried the blame for many years until a highly paid professional helped me to look back realistically. That was an incredibly liberating moment in my life. Life changing actually. Carrying the guilt for adults' feelings and behaviors, adults' responsibility had been a heavy burden indeed.

I've written comments regarding all the stories told here...even Brad's and Wanderer's...*grin*...but the most important thing right now is how you all answer the questions yourself and feel about your answers...not how I feel, so I'm reserving mine for hexagram day.

Love,

Val

wanderer · Dec 1, 2003

When I was 30 or so, I read a book about guided meditations. One of the meditations changed my life dramatically. It was about forgiveness.

The concept is rather simple. Think about people who have hurt you, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Picture them in your mind. Ask God to help you forgive them one at a time. Do not forget yourself. "God help me to forgive myself for all the things I have done that hurt me whether they were intentional or unintentional"

Then think about people that you have hurt, whether deliberately or unintentionally. Picture them in your mind and ask God's help. Dont forget yourself.

Finally send out love to everyone in the room (yes do not forget yourself), send love to everyone in the building, town, state, world one at a time.

It may be awkward at first (it was for me), but the results were truly astounding.

cal val · Dec 1, 2003

Hexagram 20, line 6

Contemplation of his life.
The superior man is without blame.

W/B says:

While the preceding line represents a man who contemplates himself, here in the highest place everything that is personal, related to the ego, is excluded. The picture is that of a sage who stands outside the affairs of the world. Liberted from his ego, he contemplates the laws of life and so realizes that knowing how to become free of blame is the highest good.

The laws of life:

1. Do not accept blame for other people's feelings, actions and behaviors.

2. Do not blame others for your feelings, actions and behaviors.

3. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

I just illustrated how to release blame that you do not own in my previous post with my own experience.

The tape mentioned in the above post is a good illustration of placing blame. It uses blaming language -- "...people who hurt you." Blaming language is "you hurt me" rather than "I feel hurt by your words," "you make me angry" rather than "I feel angry about your behavior"...etc. The pronoun "you" can, of course, be replaced by he/she/they and names, etc. The pronoun "I" cannot.

If we become free of blame by not blaming, not accepting blame and living by the Golden Rule, there is no need for forgiveness. Becoming free of blame is the highest good.

Anyone who did this exercise, contemplation of your life, is at least a third of the way to being a superior person free of blame.

Love always,

Val

hilary · Dec 1, 2003

Exactly the line I would have chosen! (At least with the huge benefit of hindsight

) I'm in a big hurry (still haven't done the washing up, ugh), so I'll just post two small extracts from my big doc of hexagram notes:

20,5
The king creates the conditions in his kingdom, sees himself in them. Cf idea that we create absolutely everything in our lives, the behaviour from other people we encounter is also something we create. Not so different!

19,2 nears with affection/ conjoining, good fortune. Maybe the natural responsive strategy is to step back and think about what you?re creating in the relationship. Also - it is joint creation, creation through responding to one another, iow co-creation

20,6
Contrast with line 5 ? this has completely removed the personal element. Maybe the opposite ? taking absolutely nothing personally, seeing self with detachment, as one person among many (and with no more limitations than anyone else!) (This is almost what Wilhelm says?)

cal val · Dec 2, 2003

Joang...

It seems your intent was to see a good fist fight. Nothing unusual about that. Nonetheless the choice to fight was still with the other two...And unless you cut out letters from a magazine, pasted them all together on a piece of paper to spell out "Sue or Die!" and sent it to the parents, you're not responsible for their decision either.

Luis...

Firstly...my heart goes out to you. That you had to be an unwitting player in a very difficult life lesson seems a terribly cruel trick of nature.

As you stated, your intent was pure, and you had no idea the birds were so fragile the stick would kill them. The safety of those birds was not a child's responsibility, but the land owners' responsibility. The protection of the children from learning life's hard lessons lies with the parents. It's situations like yours that illustrate just how difficult being a parent is. We can't possibly think of everything...but in the perfect world, your parents would have capped those fence posts and done everything else on that property, in that house...on the road you travelled...the places you went...so that you or your brother would never have to learn life's hard lessons. Only the world isn't perfect...and we can't protect our children from everything...as hard as we try...and as hard as I'm sure your parents tried.

You were an unwitting accomplice in the birds' accidental death. You experienced a tragedy, but you are absolutely innocent of any wrongdoing. You're not to blame. And I'm so sorry this had to happen to you. *HUG*

Davidl...

How could you know? Had your sister put her hand through windows before? I doubt it. She wouldn't have tried to open that window with too much force if she had. It's easy for you to feel responsible since you were goading her, but like I said before...she made her own choices to respond the way she did.

I'll bet she's has never tried to open a window with too much force since...a lesson learned the hard way.

Candid...

You stole a pack of lifesavers??? Well you're going straight to hell. And so am I....*grin* I can't remember what kind of candybar it was I stole at that age. But I had to go back and pay for it. I don't imagine you carry guilt around with you for that one...do you? I don't.

Wanderer...

I don't imagine you carry much blame around either, do you?

And Borntobebad Brad...

I can see you snickering at your memory. Well maybe not, but you surely didn't know the extinguisher foam would eat the paint off cars or you would have been more careful not to get it on yours. Am I right?

Hilary...

What can I say... except Hi!

Love to you all always,

Val

candid · Dec 2, 2003

Val, no guilt. But I did get a tattoo of a cherry Lifesaver encircled with "crime doesn't pay!" I'm sure my granny would be proud.

cal val · Dec 2, 2003

Candid...

LMAO

Love,

Val

candid · Dec 2, 2003

Val, 20.6

got me contemplating...

Contemplation of his life.
Better not to blame.
Not even himself.

cal val · Dec 2, 2003

Candid...

I like that. Easier said than done, I know, but doable.

My therapist was big on cognitive behavioral therapy, and this "Inherent Bad Self" exercise was homework she gave me at the end of one of my first sessions. Told me to go home and write about somethig "bad" I did. I said "That's easy" and my story was on my lips before I even got up out of the chair to leave...so she asked the one simple question, "Did you threaten your mother with harm if she didn't react violently? No? Then you're free of blame." The rest of my week was G R E A T !

The meaning of the Chinese character for "blame" is probably a lot more complex than the Western meaning for the word. But, still, if you think about it, blame absolutely sucks! So it doesn't surprise me that the authors of the Yi would devote a line to it...and so succinctly...as is your line. Impressive.

Love ya,

Val

bradford_h · Dec 2, 2003

Hi Val-
You're right about that. Blame is one of it's clearest meanings, especially when used with yu, praise. But it also covers the following meanings:
jiu4 1192 1068a 30+5 01.3 (a, the) blame, reproach, guilt, fault (found), error, mistake, wrong, failure, harm (done), defect, flaw, misfortune, wickedness, calamity, guilt; (to) blame, find fault, censure, reproach, do harm (s, ed, ing); (to be) mistaken, blameworthy, bad, wrong, responsible, culpable, faulty, erroneous, unworthy, guilty, harmful, mistaken, inauspicious.

brad the forgiven

The Inherent Bad Self

visitor

(deceased)

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

cheiron

Guest

visitor

cheiron

Guest

Administrator

One of those men your mother warned you about...

visitor

visitor

candid

Guest

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

Administrator

visitor

candid

Guest

visitor

candid

Guest

visitor

(deceased)