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  #1  
Old March 30th, 2004, 08:27 PM
maryb maryb is offline
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I have *two* I Ching decks (cards) that use the image of a pelican to convey the essence of Hexagram 32.

I cannot find any pelicans in the I Ching, no any reference to pelicans used as symbols in Chinese folklore.

The Pelican is a symbol of self-sacrifice in European beastiaries of the Middle Ages. Pelicans, like seagulls, ravens, crows, and pigeons also learn to hang around places where they score free food such as docks.

I just want to make sure that I am not missing anything. If there are no Chinese pelicans of note, then one of the two artists was most likely copying the first artist and it should not be perpetuated because it is a form of misrepresentation.
  #2  
Old March 31st, 2004, 12:01 AM
bradford_h bradford_h is offline
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No Pelicans.
The closest is Hong, which can be either Wild Goose or Wild Swan in Gua 53, symbol of long term fidelity. Or He, the Crane at 61.2
The people of the early Zhou were not very familiar with the ocean. They had to use Earth (as mother, matrix, etc) for much of what we use oceanic symbols for.
I have seen a pelican at 10,000 ft elevation here in Colorado though. Impressive bird when it gets out of context - their wingspan is a lot broader than the bald and golden eagles. I thought it was a whooping crane at first.
  #3  
Old March 31st, 2004, 01:34 AM
lenardthefast lenardthefast is offline
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Hi Maryb,

Are you sure it is a pelican and not a cormorant? The Chinese have used cormorants for fishing in lakes and rivers for centuries.

Just an idea.

Namaste,

Leonard
  #4  
Old March 31st, 2004, 05:28 AM
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dobro dobro is offline
 
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Brad - "I have seen a pelican at 10,000 ft elevation here in Colorado though"

What were you doing up there? Besides observing bird life, I mean? lol ("Gee, I think I'll head up a couple miles and see what's shaking.")
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  #5  
Old March 31st, 2004, 06:17 AM
bradford_h bradford_h is offline
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Hi Dobro
10,000 feet's nuthin' in this southwest part of the state (nowhere near Denver). I live at 7000 ft, and that's the bottom of a valley that's ringed by 14,000 ft peaks (I see four of those out of my windows). It looks a bit like the Swiss Alps, but the whole County only has three paved roads.
b
  #6  
Old April 1st, 2004, 01:17 AM
maryb maryb is offline
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Good point. So I looked up cormorants.

They would make a good symbol of Mankind abusing Nature. The Chinese use them to fish by putting a metal ring around the bird's neck so that the bird cannot swallow the fish it catches. The bird must return to the human to be permitted to nourish itself. If anything, I would think a symbol of slavery.

Killed by Irish fisherman now because they are competition for fish, so some species are endangered. Used as a symbol for greed by one poet, a symbol of magic because it moves between worlds by another.
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Old April 1st, 2004, 10:27 PM
lenardthefast lenardthefast is offline
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Hi Maryb,

Yes, to our Western eyes/mind it may seem to be slavery(and in reality, it ALSO MIGHT BE slavery), but, to the Chinese it MIGHT seem like symbiosis, such as milking the cow or gathering the eggs. I can see a 'faithfulness' aspect here in that the bird returns to the fisherman(as I understand it the birds are NOT on any tether or restraint.) Anyway, animal rights being abused or not, I was mainly trying to shed some light on your original question concerning the 'faithful' symbolism. I also think that the birds are related to pelicans, species-wise. In your research did you come across the word 'anhinga' by any chance? Some dim memory tells me that the particular species used by the Chinese has that name. Could be wrong on this though. Surely this 'partnership' surpasses the Western procedure for obtaining foie gras (sp?) or veal, to name two. Just throwing out random thoughts here, not making value judgements one way or the other.

Hope this is of some help.

Oh, if you find out anything one way or the other, I would be happy to be updated should you have the time.

Namaste,

Leonard
  #8  
Old April 2nd, 2004, 02:57 AM
maryb maryb is offline
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Yes, the fisherman raises the cormorants, so perhaps they get a protected place to sleep, medical care, taken to better fishing areas...benefits like that. If I came off sounding sharpish Le Lenard, it's not you. I appreciate your prompt reply.

Ah, well. Humans as a species make me grouchy sometimes. I came across a story in which fisherman had crucified a cormorant to protest their protection as a species.

Back to the cards in question, the birds depicted aren't owned cormorants, no rings around their necks. I think one artist copied the other. The first artist, Anthony Clarke, also did art for a Tarot deck, so I can try asking him directly about it.
  #9  
Old April 2nd, 2004, 08:39 AM
lenardthefast lenardthefast is offline
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Maybe, the lack of a ring ties in with the 'faithfulness' aspect again. You know, romantic license and all. Can empathize with your view of the species at times. (myself included, of course)

Don't dig the animal cruelty thing much, but, have seen lots of it all around the world. People are just perverse at times. ...and more than just sometimes lots of places.

Glad I was able to contribute in my small way.

Keep me posted on your findings, I have always had a special interest in birds of all sorts. Thanks.

Namaste,

Leonard
  #10  
Old April 2nd, 2004, 08:07 PM
bradford_h bradford_h is offline
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Hi All
Obviously the Yi can't use all of the symbols that are special to the Chinese.
I'd like to recommend this book for those interested in the subject
Eberhard, Wolfram. A Dictionary of Chinese Symbols. New York: Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1986.
My copy is out visiting friends - otherwise I'd have looked up Pelican and Cormorant.
Also I'm open to suggestions for other books on Chinese symbols.
b
 

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