Hey everyone,
Lately I havent been able to participate in the discussions, Im sorry, there were some real nice threads I had to let go, but work has been preventing me from getting any fun. Anyway, Im taking my saturn conjunct mercury to sort my life out, working some important ideas to the most. Regarding the Yi Ive been working mostly with pairs 41/42 and 59/60 (thanks to Stephen Karcher Im now viewing pairs as part of a whole, and it really makes sense, although some seem more natural pairings than others).
Anyway, I'd like to question some different interpretations Ive been finding about the pictograms, in the hope some of you share your views over it. My sources are LiSe's site (still my favorite), Dan Stackhouse's Original I Ching, and a wonderful lizard.pdf I downloaded somewhere, by Thos. Meyer.
Btw, its not a matter of who is right, cause the meanings arent so different, and most of this must be plain guessing.

Hexagram 41 Sun.
On the right LiSe says it is an empty ding (the circle not meaning round but empty). But Meyer says the right picture are round cowrie shells (what does cowrie mean?), meaning money, and draws it round shaped. The meaning would be hands letting go of money, similar to LiSe's overall meaning but not quite. In fact one point I see only from LiSe, is that the hand drawing is "a special form, meaning to join the hands and bow reverential" (LiSe, in what is it a special form? is it the usual way to draw hand, the two curly dashes forming the 5 fingers? or it means two hands?). I prefer LiSe's meaning of praying near the empty ding, so it gets filled in 42 (which is at least more poetic than just letting go of posessions). It also depicts the sacrificial attitude of 41 much more intensely

Hexagram 42 Yi.
For this pictogram theres consensus. The only variation is the way LiSe portraits the water, more like vapours rising from the ding. I think the meaning must be more like collecting water than evaporating it, though. I think it is important to understand its not just a matter of putting the ding outside to collect rain water. This could mean a passive attitude, and still a benefit from above, but it doesnt work that way. We need to deserve that increase, and the way to deserve it is 41, sacrificing, praying, decreasing our material instincts. Incidentally, LiSe's commentary on 41 and 42 are extremely beautiful and inspiring. I think the most basic lesson is to BE what we really ARE. Thats the only real freedom, and the only way to really fulfill our lives (which others will respect us for)

Hexagram 59 Huan.
Here LiSe focus more on the early picture, with man, cave and hands, but she already talks of a stick that I can see only in the later drawing (man, cave, eye, token, hand). Also she says the man, cave, hands picture means "lively, excellent, gay, beautiful", which I have trouble figuring out why. Stackhouse presents only the later picture. Meyer takes the later meaning "exchange, to pass an object hand to hand while examining it attentively to avoid deception" but shows the earlier picture. Both meanings concur, but I would like to know more about the transition from one pictogram to the other. When did this object appear? What are the hands in the earlier picture doing? Where is the eye looking? at the object or at the water? Or it isnt an object but just the meaning of looking sharp? I think there is a mixture of meanings from both representations of this character, although the situation portraied seems quite different. Incidentally, I would also like to know how the modern chinese character is drawn. It is so complex I cant figure it out by myself (for some reason at I Ching Lexicon the 1st character huan is missing, so I cant find the page where it is explained http://home.attbi.com/%7Ecpolish/V59.HTM . If anyone knows of a page where I can check this character please let me know)

Hexagram 60 Jie.
Here, where LiSe sees a bowl of food, Meyer and Stackhouse describe soup and a spoon (the drawing is slightly different). Lise's right side man knealing (preparing to eat), can also be "a spoon", meaning measure (Meyer) or "a seal of authority that means 'a just measure'" (Stackhouse). Stackhouse also says the bamboo can be the material of the bowl and spoon, but it seems more natural it represents the measure of things. All this doesnt matter much to the overall meaning though, and I might just guess who is right.

Hexagram 50 Ding.
Meyer shows drawings of oval shaped ding's, not like LiSe's with the ears. Are these later representations? cause the modern pictogram is more similar (although square shaped). Stackhouse's site also shows some more dings with ornamentation, which ilustrate the evolution to the modern character clearly. Regarding the ding, and following a thread I started about practical ways to fulfill the ding, I am now convinced that the 41/42 pair deals with this in a very direct manner, the dings are there for anyone to see (I would rather see ding's in 41/42 than anything else). The way to fill your ding is 41, sacrificing yourself, decreasing desires and anger, to become in tune with the gods and men, which inevitably brings the fullfillment of 42. The latter is not only an increase to ourselfs, but also the need to increase others. I think that if one completely understands and puts into practice the message of 41/42, then the ding is automatically filled.

Hexagram 22 Di.
This one is controversial. Dan's picture looks like LiSe's upside down (she also has a similar one). He says it may mean ornament. Another one means "hands holding or offering something". LiSe talks about a flowering plant, which indeed her picture evokes, and I am incline to see it the same way. Ornament is a pretty vain thing, while "beauty" as "Qi showing", together with the glowing vapours seems like a more natural meaning. I read about Confucious disapointment in getting 22 one day, so maybe that pejorative meaning is more of a confucionist thing, and the original meaning was more like LiSe's interpretation. Qi showing is actually one of the most inspiring views of 22 Ive ever seen, and a very appropriate answer to some situations this hexagram has appeared to me lately. In any case I dont see this hexagram as merely vain, as some short sighted interpretations seem to imply. Finally Meyer offers a very different picture: more cowrie shells and a full basket (of it) - "abundance of precious and beautiful things". Still a concurrent meaning, although his drawing is distinct.


Well, thats it for now, I thank you all in advance for any thoughts you wanna share, and I'll try to drop by once in a while to see if I can contribute anything nice
Love
Pedro

I am going to answer all your questions, but it is very hard. Not your fault - mine
I was so thrilled with the joined hands that I did not look thorough enough. It is not two hands joined, it is one hand
The oldest examples, of Western Zhou, gave only examples with two hands joined, nothing else, so I took it as the meaning of shou. But it was in those sentences always bai shou, join hands, nowhere without the 'bai'.
Uff, this is off my chest, maybe I can write that mail now.

LiSe

Hexagram 41 Sun.
(hand + vase + circle)

There are two ways to draw a hand.
One is with three fingers (you). One slightly bent line, and another, half-round one, The ?curly dash?, through it. You is ?have?, what the hand does.
The other one is with 5 fingers (shou), which is the hand in hex.41. Shou is also used simply for ?hand? in many characters (as one of the components of these characters), but I have searched for this version in Ricci (a huge Chinese-French dictionary, which shows also the old oracle-bones characters). I wondered why there were two different characters for the same meaning.

When shou is used as character, not as component but nominal, then it is the hand itself.
For uses in Western Zhou, Ricci gives several sentences, in all of them ?bai shou?: ?joining the hands?, in combination with reverence or prostration.
In ancient texts: hand, fist, take, choose, hold by the hand, personal (by own hand), bare-hand fighting, manuscript.
And now also: activity (water-hand: sailor, pitfall-hand: criminal), talent, direction.

The vase at right is certainly not cowry (cowry-shells are little rolled-up shells, white and pink, which were used for money. Not only in China, also in other countries). Zhen, perseverance in Wilhelm, is also seen by many as cowry, but there too it is a vase, a ding. On the oldest ideograms the vase is clearly visible. The ideogram for cowry is very different, only later they were written more and more the same.

YUÁN, the right part of sun, means: Wenlin: member; -er/-ist/etc., Ricci: W-Zhou: a name. Ancient texts: surrounded by, encircled, environs, limits, circle, round, numerical character for objects of value (esp. shells). So it has something to do with shells, even though the image is not a shell. Probably because of the ?round?.
The oldest form of the graph of hex.41 seems to have been hand and lack, jie2, see hex.29, which has ?earth? at left, jie has ?hand?.

The circle: it can mean round, or opening, or empty. Nobody knows for sure what it is meant to be. When they say it ?is? round, then it is this author?s idea. Another one is sure it is the opening. But all these characters are 3000 years old, or more, so certainty is usually not possible. I will add the other possibilities on my website. I saw that I also say ?it is?, it should be ?it may be this ? or that?.

Hex.41, Sun3: diminish, ruin, injure, detriment, destruct, weaken, dominate, subdue, humiliate, mock, criticize, med.: persistent weakness. Daoist: diminish the unnecessary, reduce to the essence or to dao.

One by one, next post hex.42
LiSe

Hexagram 42 Yi.
Here too there is a picture and a number of ideas, but no certainty. A bowl and water above or in it. This one is not a ding, it looks different, simpler. A vase on a foot, in other old characters it looks like a very shallow dish. The water can be poured in, or flowing over, cooking, evaporating, and in some pictures it does not look at all like water.
I don?t know if it is passive or active collecting, I don?t think it is restricted to one of the two. And not only to these two either.

I sent a picture by private mail (who wants it ? just ask), and the top row is Oracle Bone characters, with the meaning ?effectuate the sacrifice Yi?, the second row: 2 Western Zhou: to give, grant. 3 Eastern Zhou: a measure of weight of metal or measure of capacity of grain (one fistful, 1/24 sheng of hex.46).

Yi4: augment, increase, add, raise, advantage, profit(able), come too, more, in a higher degree, progressively, help, support, abundant, fill, flow over; proud, exaggerate, excess, name of a weight measure. In YiJing exch. with xi2, to grant.
Exch. with ai4: narrow pass in mountains, narrow, small, vulgar, poverty, need.

Go to www.zhongwen.com, search for ?input pinyin: yi4? (top of page always has a link ?search?), or for ?English: increase?, or for ?radical?: ?hand? has four strokes (you have to know how ?four? is written in Chinese, but counting helps: one, two and three are one or two or three lines, they are easy. And four comes after three). Or for English ? hand.
There is also a page with ideograms, but I could only find the pictograms of the radicals, and they were not very good (the explanations). It looks as if they only pull the modern character apart, and define the parts. Many people do the same, but the result is often not reliable, and sometimes complete rubbish. Palmer and Ramsay do it in their ?I Ching?, and I got the impression Thos. Meyer also does. But I printed just a small part of it, so I cannot judge yet. You said you ?downloaded? it: is there another possibility than printing? I could not copy or save or anything. Hm, the pages are coming out of the printer, and I see here and there interesting things. I don?t know if they are right, but they are worth investigating. A beauty: hex.30, the ?unicorn-bird?.

LiSe

Hexagram 50 Ding.
Ding1, an ancient cooking pot, but not one for daily use in the house, but to cook food in for a sacrifice to the gods or spirits.
Dictionnaire Ricci: ritual cauldron, prepare food (especially meat) in a Ding, sacrifice with a Ding, sacrifice victims. It can be round with three legs, or square with four legs. Two handles, with or without cover, big or small.

Exch. with zhèn (Wilhelm's perseverance, ding + divine): proclaim the divinatory incantation (probably during a ritual Ding-sacrifice), submit to the oracle. Symbol of royal authority, triple equilibrium, at the moment that, triple, all three, grand, precious, noble, respectable, most, in the best order, high administrative function.

Shuo Wen: 'Precious recipient with three legs and two handles, serving to harmonize the five tastes (by cooking). Formerly Yù collected the metals of the nine provinces, cast the tripod vases at the foot of mount Jing and penetrated into the forests, the valleys and the swamps. Of all the demons which prowl around woods and mountains, not one could resist him. He united all the provinces and received the favors of heaven.

LiSe

Hexagram 59 Huan.
At the left side of the character water or a river, at the right side xiong4, which is a drawing of a man at the entrance of a cave, looking sharp around with a stick in his hand, in order to hit or seize.

Later this side was written like the character huan4. This means looking sharp at something while passing it from hand to hand (like in a market): lively, excellent, gay, beautiful.

So in both ways of writing it is ?looking sharply?.

Huan4: disperse, expand, scatter, ample (e.g. of streams).
Xiong4: a man who peers around from a cave in order to defend or shoot, lurking. Try all ways to obtain something, strive for; long, deep, far away; a wild look; eminent, excellent. Xiongxiong: remote, far; fix one?s gaze on.

LiSe

Hello LiSe...

another one for you - about guo, excess/transition/stepping over, as in 28 and 62. The foot and the footprints I understand, but how come the skeleton and the mouth are a mountain pass?

(Didn't some generous person provide us with some pictures?)


Are they related to the 'jawbones' in 31,6 and 52,5 that come up later meaning 'brace, support'? Ritsema and Karcher say that's 'cart' and 'great', which makes you wonder where the jawbones came from. It would link to 28's ridgepole, though goodness knows where that flying bird fits in!

Help...

(It's lucky you enjoy looking these things up, isn't it? )

I am dumb! Making all the pictures, and forgetting to ad them when I write about them.
Here is the whole row which should have been in the previous mails
Hex.41
Hex.42
Hex.50
Hex.59 This is the later version without stick. The one with stick you can see here: http://www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching/hex_49-64/hex_e_59.htm

A new one: Hexagram 28
A mountain ridge looks like teeth. A pass between two mountains as if there is a cleft, more than just a tooth missing: a cleft palate. So they have skeleton + mouth = cleft palate for the pass.
In Ricci there is an old character for guo, the whole character: the cleft palate with the crossing foot. There the right part looks like a zigzag-line, very much like a path going up a steep slope. The rest is the same foot and road.
Hex.28

LiSe

Hexagram 22 Bi.

In some graphs the leaves are drawn hanging down, in others raised up. The flower is sometimes a round thing, sometimes just small lines across the stems (if they really are flowers), and sometimes no flowers at all. Actually most look rather like cereal plants.
What Stackhouse sees as a cowry is no cowry at all, but a ding (or other kind of vase). Round, with horizontal lines and two feet (the ding is never drawn with more than two feet, probably too complicated).
The two hands below look as if they honor or present the plant. These hands are one of the reasons why I thought there had to be more than only beauty. If it is a healing plant, the hands are obvious.

In Karlgren I came across a very interesting remark: he compares the drawing of the plant with the drawing of the vase/ding (in ShuoWen two characters ?steaming rice? are side by side, one food + the plant, the other food + the vase), and the remark ?the ding* is a superfetation element, and that a, b, c, d above (i.e. all ways of drawing BI) are really the same character?. (*I call it ding, but Karlgren had a picture of the vase of the modern character BI without the flowers)

LiSe

Dear LiSe, you're wonderful as always thanks for such comprehensive comments, I have expanded upon my previous ideas, and I must say that once again your interpretations seem not only to concur with my intuitive thoughts, but present a much more convincing meaning than other interpretations

Allow me some my thoughts on your comments

Re: Hex. 41
So there is a three finger hand and a 5 finger hand, but still the same meaning. It was mildly disapointing learning it was not two bowing hands, as I was making the whole picture in my head, referring to some sort of sacrifice that would fulfill the ting in 42. But then to conciliate this hand with the meaning of 41, I think the "empty hand" meaning must be of most importance. So does the hand mean "empty handed", adding to the meaning of the ding, resulting in "empty hand, empty ding" (or as you say "hand and lack", maybe just "empty hand"), or do you think its meaning is more like "take the empty ding" (and fill it), or maybe even "discard it all except the ding"? The ding with the circle must be the essential value one must preserve, discarding all rest

Regarding the cowry shells, I was not surprised to find you were right... I think the ding is much more appropriate to the nature of the hexagram, and the fact it also appears in 42 makes it even more convincing (I realise now youre not sure it is a ding in 42). I imagine there must be lots of examples of ideograms that look alike and at some time their meanings/graphs become intermixed

Re: Hex. 42
"Here too there is a picture and a number of ideas, but no certainty. A bowl and water above or in it. This one is not a ding, it looks different, simpler. A vase on a foot, in other old characters it looks like a very shallow dish."

I see what you mean about that "shallow disk" representation, I was thinking it was a square ding, like in modern representation of 50, but I see the dashes in the ding are horizontal. So if it isnt a ding, then my theory of 41/42 being a way to 50 gets bogged. Still, from the wonderful pictures you sent me (thank you so much ), the character water seems like an early presence. Even the vertical dashes appear as the water is drawn upright and not horizontally, then maybe the middle line disappeared. And I seem to believe the water is dropping, not evaporating. There is a somewhat passive nature to 42. For some reason the images seem to imply that, specially the vertical water trigram

Btw, thanks for the www.zhongwen.com link

Re: lizard.pdf "You said you ?downloaded? it: is there another possibility than printing? I could not copy or save or anything."
I must have gotten it from http://jargonbooks.com/. Scroll down and there's a link, but you can right-click over the link, and choose "save target as..." instead of opening it in a browser window (but if you do, there is also a a save button in acrobat's toolbar). Or even simpler, I'll be glad to send you the file, if its ok with you (900k more or less)

Re: "A beauty: hex.30, the ?unicorn-bird?"
yes, its an intriguing one, your net becomes the unicorn character... Unfortunatelly, if you're not sure whether it is right, much less can I be (and Im already suspicious cause now I know some are wrong)

Re: Hex. 50
I think the confusion about round dings comes from some round shaped drawings with very ornamented legs, like Dan Stackhouse has in his Ding page. Hexagram 50 may be my favorite of all, but somehow I take its meaning to be related to the notion of co-creation, as presented by Cayce among others, where one acts in acordance with the Creator, in order to fulfill His intentions among humanity

Re: Hex. 59
Oh I see, the version without stick is the LATER one, not the earlier as I thought... so maybe the eye and stick were dropped since the character was already familiar. That clarifies my doubt where were you seeing the token in this (later) representation. So the two hands in this later graph mean exchange, right?

Re: Hex.22
I see this one is complicated, I am overwhelmed by all the characters you sent me, and it seems like although they all gravitate around some common elements, there was a lot of freedom in this hexagrams meaning. There is the version with the plant, with and without hands. The hands are not always below, and sometimes theres the bowl at the left (like the bowl in 60?) which even seems to have taken proheminence over the plant, replacing it entirely in some cases. And what is the A shaped character over the bowl? "Steaming"?
Anyway, I agree the hands are paramount in turning this character's meaning into "more than only beauty", but I suspect the somewhat frivolous meaning some translations seem to imply is a confucionist thing. Probably Confucious didnt have much fun
So taking all this mess together, I am inclined to think in terms of inner beauty, much more than ornament. You ornament things so they look preetier than they really are, but real beauty shines through, without need for ornament. The medicinal plants could also have envigorating qualities, that would allow your Qi to shine through

Well, thats all for now, thank you again so much for all your lovely commentaries and your more than generous contribution

Love,
Pedro

No, the two hands don?t have exactly the same meaning. The one with the three fingers is the acting hand, the one with five fingers is the hand itself. The meanings do overlap, but they still feel different.
The three finger-hand of hex.14 indicates also blessings from above, the blessing hand of God, or who- or whatever one imagines as the origin of blessings. The five-finger hand shou is used for ?personal?, or even for the person, like in ?water-hand: sailor?. Shou zhang (hand badge): personal style.
Water and you (the 3-finger hand) would be quite different, something like ?having water?. The you-hand is also used for ?there is?, like in French: ?il y a?. Ear and you-hand is take, with woman added: marry. Like the stone-age man who drags a woman along at her hair.


I was very disappointed too. The two hands joined did fit so well into my idea of 41. But the shou-hand instead of the you-hand shows that it is not especially about having a (empty, round, whatever) ding.
Yuan (round) with other characters: (sound-round) nice-sound, rhyme, grace, (round-strength) merit. Yuan (round) itself is not negative, it also indicated an officer or other person with a rank. And precious objects (things with a 'rank'). If the hand indicates personal, then hand-round could be personal emptiness, or personal rank. Or as you say: empty hand. I think that one makes sense too.

?Pedro - Re: Hex. 50
..Hexagram 50 may be my favorite of all, but somehow I take its meaning to be related to the notion of co-creation, as presented by Cayce among others, where one acts in accordance with the Creator, in order to fulfill His intentions among humanity?
I think you are right. After all the 9 ding were the emperor?s token of his having the mandate.

And there is this remark of Karlgren, who compares two ways of writing the character ?steaming rice?. Both have at the right side the character bi of hex.22, one the plant, the other the vase with plant. He draws the conclusion from this: ?..the vase is a superfetation element..?. I wonder what this means for the Ding..,
The characters with bowl at left are NOT hex.22. I added them for this remark of Karlgren. They mean steaming rice. They are composed of eat+bi.
I myself see in Bi the beauty and the healing- and other qualities of plants. Every plant can be recognized, the way it looks tells what it is for. In humans, their looks should also tell what they are (good) for.


I searched for the stick of 59 again, and now I know how it is: the latter character (huan) has the old one (xiong) too, but very much abbreviated. Only the person and the cave are left. But at the bottom two hands are added. And I agree they mean exchange from hand to hand.

It worked with the pdf of Thos. Meyers! Thanks.

LiSe

Hi LiSe

«No, the two hands don?t have exactly the same meaning. The one with the three fingers is the acting hand, the one with five fingers is the hand itself. The meanings do overlap, but they still feel different.»

Oh I see the difference, its subtle for a layman like me, but you explain it well.

«The three finger-hand of hex.14 indicates also blessings from above (...) The five-finger hand shou is used for ?personal?, or even for the person, like in ?water-hand: sailor?. Shou zhang (hand badge): personal style.»

I see, so the 5-finger hand means more like "handling", or the act of use our hands for something (other than just grabbing or possessing)...

«Water and you (the 3-finger hand) would be quite different, something like ?having water?. The you-hand is also used for ?there is?, like in French: ?il y a?. Ear and you-hand is take, with woman added: marry. Like the stone-age man who drags a woman along at her hair.»

lol wasnt there a character for club as well?

«I was very disappointed too. The two hands joined did fit so well into my idea of 41. But the shou-hand instead of the you-hand shows that it is not especially about having a (empty, round, whatever) ding.»

yes, I agree, but now I see an even better idea emerging: if it were hands praying, it could sound like passivity, merely praying for it, but with the hand it becomes our need to work it out, by no means passive, but learning how to handle decrease

«If the hand indicates personal, then hand-round could be personal emptiness, or personal rank. Or as you say: empty hand. I think that one makes sense too.»

or maybe dealing with emptyness? Or taking the sailor example, a person that makes her personal goal of emptying herself?

«?Pedro - Re: Hex. 50 ..Hexagram 50 (...) related to the notion of co-creation, as presented by Cayce among others, where one acts in accordance with the Creator, in order to fulfill His intentions among humanity?
I think you are right. After all the 9 ding were the emperor?s token of his having the mandate.»

It makes all the sense to me, and I have gotten this hexagram in that very context, thats why I always look at it like that now. Also 50 deals with being in harmony both with gods and mankind, somehow standing in the middle, which is what co-creation is all about

«The characters with bowl at left are NOT hex.22. I added them for this remark of Karlgren. They mean steaming rice. They are composed of eat+bi.»

I see, sorry for the confusion, I was realising that after some more careful examination of your posts

«I myself see in Bi the beauty and the healing- and other qualities of plants. Every plant can be recognized, the way it looks tells what it is for.»

just like ginseng being human like shaped

«In humans, their looks should also tell what they are (good) for.»

hehe, couldnt agree more... I think for those who are able to sense it, the way a person looks shows a lot about her inner qualities... I get some odd vibes from some people ocasionally, when everyone tells me how great they are... But I know that some unconscious trait has triggered my sensors, and unfortunately in the end people realise I was right to be suspicious all along. This is a two end stick though, I cant presume to read people's minds, let alone judge them by their looks alone

«I searched for the stick of 59 again, and now I know how it is: the latter character (huan) has the old one (xiong) too, but very much abbreviated. Only the person and the cave are left. But at the bottom two hands are added. And I agree they mean exchange from hand to hand.»

The modern pictogram shows neither, merely the man and cave and two dashes, perhaps a simplification of the two hands. I realise now that once a meaning is established, characters can go through large simplifications, without people loosing the connection.

But I must say, that from barely scratching the surface of character hunting, I admire your work even more. You must have pacience like a chinese in order to do this
Incidentally, I cant find xiong4 at the site you provided, but I would like to see a modern representation... could someone explain how do I make the correspondence between pinyin with all those odd accents, and with the numbers at the end?

«It worked with the pdf of Thos. Meyers! Thanks.»

Youre welcome, thanks again for your insights, it has been most elucidative

pedro

«Water and you (the 3-finger hand) would be quite different, something like ?having water? The you-hand is also used for ?there is? like in French: ?il y a? Ear and you-hand is take, with woman added: marry. Like the stone-age man who drags a woman along at her hair.?
lol [ ] wasnt there a character for club as well?

Hex.59! In the old (stone-age?) character he looks out of the cave with a stick in his hand.
LiSe

oh now I see what theyre lurking in the cave for... appealing females that happen to pass by (the water sign is just there to mislead)

juz kiddin...

Anyway, I made a commitement to discard everything that is not essential and just BE myself. Im having sun conjunct mars, and no challenge seems too hard at this moment. So I guess this is it, and I feel so free
This has been a loooong term need of mine, but I have been procrastinating. I realise that the only way I can really be happy is by freeing myself from everything that is not really me, and stop looking for happyness outside.

Anyway, after a very fruitful conversation with the Yi, of which I'll spare you the details, I asked the Yi for a motivating image, a flag I could herald in this new era (like a portuguese pop singer says in one song "this is the 1st day of the rest of your life")
The answer was 41 stable, what else
The way you Lise have it described at your site couldnt be more inspiring. Allow me to transcript:

"THIS IS ALL
Get rid of all conditioning and forms. You think you need them for being present in the world, for being visible, being you. But what they do is hiding you. They hide your soul, your essence, your creativity, and they can even destroy all this.
If you dare to be your naked self, you will be amazed how great and rich it is. Diminishing is augmenting.
Get rid of everything and you will find all. "

So beautifully put... What could be more appropriate to me at this point? Thank you Yi, thank you LiSe, thank you all

Incidentally, Dan Stackhouse has a different interpretation for Sun. He says the circle means the outer rim of the ding, and pictures an intention of accessing the ding's contents. The hand is then barring the access to the ding's contents, as in the hand sign for "stop". He mentions the earlier symbolism of the ding, when it had indeed food for consuption and not for offering sacrifices

Comparing hexagrams 28 and 62, I see that there is a similitude in meaning that seems to reflect the same similitude in hexagram structure.
Here's 28: and 62:

So it seems that in both cases a pass must be made, but while in 28 there's a great man doing the pass, in 62 the three grains of rice sugest acumulating small efforts for the same goal.

But none of these pictograms seem to evoke the negative conotation that Wilhelm puts on them. In 28 the ridge pole about to break, and in 62 the bird that should not long for the heights. Yet the pictograms seem to sugest a need for making the pass, and not a discouradge attitude one may read in Wilhelm, like "my yin lines are on the outside, so I better just crawl into my bed and hope it will pass"
No, I think in both cases its the inside yang lines that should govern the attitude. The middle is strong, so we have to face our challenge (and overcome it). Only in 62 the problems are harder and so a more cautious attitude is needed

I just feel somewhat discouradged by both these hexagrams, but perhaps I shouldnt. Maybe its Wilhelm's conotation which is a bit harsh. What do you people think?