Hexagram 64.6 changing to 40

From what I can understand 46.6 refers to keeping with the proper bounds in a new situation-- and 40 (referencing line 6) is acheivement through disentanglement?

LiSe--
At 64.6 this references the big state- the state of Shang -- I can't find much on the internet, only Shang being overthrown by Chou...

Thanks,

Deb

[martin]

I would read 64 changing to 40 as something like "preparing for a release, an escape, a decision".

In 64 things are falling into place, there is a beginning of order, clarity and understanding.
Soon or later, a decision (release, etcetera) will be possible. But first some work needs to be done. The "work" could involve anything that helps to clarify the situation.

Martin

Hi Martin-

Thanks for your response

Line 6 always throws it for me! I have such a problem with them, and it seemed rather negative. Maybe in retrospect it isn't too negative!

I really enjoy hearing another perspective, it helps me learn.

Thanks,
Deb

[pedro]

For me line 6 of #64 is related to drinking with moderation, something virtually impossible for an alcoholic. It somewhat evokes quit drinking and the relapse that most usually comes when one feels strong again and thinks "well I can have just one drink...". But somehow this first drink is the beginning of the end (like AA's motto: one drink is too much and ten are not enough).
Of course the meaning isnt circunscrit to drinking, it may act as an universal paradigm of addictions, whatever they may be (even addiction to wrong mental paths), and a warning against overconfidence.
Also I dont think that the related hexagram 40, shows where this line leads, but quite the opposite, what one is missing in the first place. If we were already "liberated", then this line wouldnt come up in the first place.

Btw, this is one possible view, a metaphor like so many the Yi uses. I am by no means implying that you have a drinking problem...
Besides, we all have (and need) habits. And addictions ar just morally condemned habits.
So if we must have some sort of habits, we must strive for healthy habits, so one's health doesnt have to pay for it.

Hi Pedro,

I think now maybe this is just about keeping your wits about you in a situation that has potential to become overpowering or intoxicating...that is what it seems to mean regarding the situation at hand.

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I appreciated your input!

Deb

[gene]

Part of what 64:6 is about is keeping your wits. After a victory there is often a celebration. But one must be careful of becoming too exhuberant because another enemy may be lurking right around the corner. The individual celebrates after "Crossing the great water" and in his overexhuberance falls back into the water. 63 and 64 show us the cycles of life. After completion of tasks, things tend to deteriorate again. Once they do, new efforts are needed to repair. Line 6 in many hexagrams is inauspicious because the line has gone too far. It is outside the bounds of the main flow, especially of the nuclear hexagram.

Gene

Gene-

But this is before completion...how can one celebrate before it is completed? Maybe being heady in the expectation of completion and the glass of wine can be had in celebration of nearing or just to relax after the tension of getting to that point. Isn't this about it being ok to be confident but not losing one's head over it because the outcome isn't quite certain?

If one loses one's head he may not complete the crossing-- he can easily lose his balance and fall in?


Thanks for helping me see another aspect on this -I really need to develop the ability to bounce around the ball and see the different perspectives!
Deb

Also wondering about this changing into 40. Deliverance and LiSe's Removing the Horns...

I've always taken the corresponding line (40 line 6 in this instance) into account but don't know if this is correct?

If so would that imply seeing clearly, clarify, maybe to resolve and be decisive about crossing? Or merely deliverance comes from not losing one's head?

Deb

[pedro]

I seem to understand that the relating hexagram is sometimes where the changing line points to (something you have), and some other times, what one is missing (something you dont). In this case I find it is something missing. Deliverance is freeing one self. Its movement away from danger, and a careless attitude before completion seems like lack of something. Restraint, for instance.

Respecting 63 and 64 lines, I find them pretty much uncorrelated to the hexagram meaning. This two hexagrams seem to make a pair appart, a situation that (like Mary said on midaughter) is too complicated to be summed up by a single hexagram. I feel dissatisfied when I get either of these unchanging (even more if it is 64), because they leave all options open. Yet the lines always seem to go straight to the point, overriding the hexagram meaning and providing very concise omens.

[gene]

Hi Yellowblue.

Okay, I am looking at this a little deeper, I was doing it by memory in my last post. He has not necessarily crossed the great water, but he is celebrating. Not due to having crossed the great water, but because it is now springtime and many things are possible. Line 6 is just a warning. It follows pretty much the judgement of the hexagram as a whole. The new era approaches. In 63 we have autumn, where things are beginning to deteriorate. In 64 it is spring, and there is renewal. With the renewal comes hope, and therefore convivialness and celebration. The warning about falling in the water is only a warning. It only happens if we get too carried away. The Wilhelm Baynes version says it is avoidable, only a possibility.

In order to know what 40 means, I would have to know an original question. It could just mean removing oneself from the possible danger in line 6. This hexagram originally had the idea of separation. We can separate ourselves, or we can be separated forcefully. One idea in forty is to move forward in a new and correct way. Remember, in line 6, there is success as long as we avoid the danger, and the success leads us into the new order.

As I have mentioned in other posts, here is entropy, and evolution rolled together. In 63 things are balanced but now they begin to decay. (entropy) In 64, things have decayed but are now being put together into a new order. (evolution) There is a hint here of activities in #49 and #50. However, in 49 and 50 it is manmade. Here it is the natural order. When things are balanced and in harmony again, they by the law of cyclic return begin to once again deharmonize, and fall apart. See hexagram 11 & 12, also 23 & 24.

#40 tells us that things are separating. In line 6 the new order has already been established, and now we are back to 63 where care need be taken. Therefore #40 separates the elements put together and brings them back into harmony in a new way as in #63. It is as if 63 and 64 or stuck together in an endless loop.

Gene