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Please help: Hex 62 ->17

modesty

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After only a few weeks back to the family, my wife declared that she is leaving again and leave me holding the baby (literrally). I have not talked to her about whether she would come back. I asked the Yi if she would change her mind about leaving and got
62 + line 1,3 and 5 ->17.

All the lines in hex 62 seems very negative but the resulting hexagram looks OK. Can anyone help with the intepretation please?

modesty
 

jte

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Hrmmm. That is definitely not good. If I got that reading, I'd expect some potentially negative thing to be developing.

62.3 *might* simply be referring to your wife listening to and taking seriously your mother-in-law (I believe it was?) poisoning her against you. In that case you can simply address the issues when they come up. However, it might be something worse than that. For example, your wife might decide to cheat on you or to blindside you with divorce and child custody proceedings. (Still could be something else entirely, but these are the things that spring to mind.)

If I got this reading I'd start preparing for worst-case scenarios. I'd ask the Yi followup questions to try to better determine the nature of the danger and how to best ameliorate it. Once the precise nature of the issues becomes clearer, I'd possibly start looking to more conventional sources for assistance as well (e.g., if you have any friends who are divorce lawyers, it might become time to call in your favors with them).

Part of the idea of this hex is (in your case) that you're too busy dealing with the emotional distress and, now, taking care of the child alone, to be able to deal effectively with the upcoming threat. However, "forewarned is forearmed" and being prepared for the worst can help you get through this, not by panicking, but by taking the warning seriously and taking appropriate action.

My two cents. Sounds like a very rough spot. Best of luck.

- Jeff
 

modesty

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Hi Jeff

Thanks for your honest response.
Somehow, I do not think that my wife would be cheating me. She is just very depressed and mixed up. I am not even sure if this time, my in law has something to do with it.
At least I can look after my baby now and I am doing all the preparation legally and domestically to provide the best for him.

I was only confused because just a few weeks ago when I asked if we still have a future together, I got 37+3+6 ->49. and it seems like we would. Now this reading makes me totally confused...

modesty
 

dobro p

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"I asked the Yi if she would change her mind about leaving and got
62 + line 1,3 and 5 ->17."

I don't think the Yi is answering the question you asked (at least, I don't see any answer to your question in 62>17). But I do think the Yi is telling you about the best way to handle the situation, which is this: paying attention to details and small stuff is the best way to get through this situation, and not just get through it, but find something which you can follow as well. Details, stuff like taking care of the baby's needs, paying the bills, making sure you're eating well enough yourself, making sure you have backup and support to take care of the baby. The stuff which looks like small stuff and nagging details is actually the stuff that will save you now.
 

willowfox

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Hi modesty,

I asked the Yi if she would change her mind about leaving and got
62 + line 1,3 and 5 ->17.

hex 62.1 says that your wife is creating her own problems by trying to leave, bad for her. Wait and see what happens.
hex 62.3 says that her mother has a lot of influence over her, she is the enemy.
hex 62.5 says at the moment your wife gives you no joy, so seek help and advice.

hex 17 following, in this situation use no force of any kind, in fact be willing to help her, be open with her. But do not burden yourself with this problem of her talking about leaving, retire from the fight, ride out this storm. It appears to be a minor upset (well, I hope it is) the only thing that you can really do for the next 4-5 days is to sit it out, and do not be drawn into an argument. It takes two to fight. Watch, listen and be nice.
 

modesty

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thanks Dobro & Willowfox

Yes, I will take your council seriously. I would not try to keep her or fight with her.
We will move on to live our lives.
 

kenresting

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modesty said:
just a few weeks ago when I asked if we still have a future together, I got 37+3+6 ->49. and it seems like we would.

h37.3.6 --> h49

h37 The Family

3 Too great severity, despite occasional mistakes, is preferable. Too great weakness leads to disgrace.

6 Order within the family depends on the character of the master of the house.

h49 Great change through necessity.

h49 says it all.

modesty said:
I asked the Yi if she would change her mind about leaving and got 6 + line 1,3 and 5 ->17.

h62.1.3.5 --> h17

1 The situation cannot be changed, it is better to accept with a peaceful mind.

3 Despite keeping a meek and humble attitude, it is wise to take precautions to protect oneself.

5 Trouble that comes of its own accord. Finish your business and take shelter.

h17 Natural cycles, the cycle of growth and decline is present.

:bows:
 

autumn

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I would read this as an answer to your question. "Will she change her mind about leaving?" Your result is commentary on what is going on in her mind as she considers the question.

62 is about the practical application of plans, among other things. 17 is following through on them. If you consider the answer insight into her planning process right now, line 1 says that she will find she's acted impulsively, and will not have the power to carry out what she thinks she will do. Line 3 is realization that she's going to sabotage herself if she acts impulsively. For example, if she leaves that baby, (stupid, selfish, impulsive decision) when you get to family court the judge may give the baby to you. Line 5 is about her attempting to get someone to do something for her. She is trying to influence someone to do something that will be primarily for her benefit. For example, this might be trying to convince someone to let her live with them, or it might be trying to get you to do something to help her in her plans to leave.

Practical advice for you- there are few things on this earth that compare to a custody battle in terms of hellish, nightmare experiences. I don't think you have any clue what you're getting in to, because if you did, you would care less about that woman. You have the only thing any one of you is going to win in this- the right to keep that baby with you. Forget about her and concentrate on that baby, or you will regret it.
 
J

jesed

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1.- (Posted in this forum on July 30, 2006)

"Please, don't wait for the next conflict to made the dialogue I suggested in email answer.

If there are powerful people wanting your family fall apart, you need extra clarity about the Time of your relationship, and the best way to survive (together) that bad intentions."


2. (Posted in this forum on August 15, 2006)

"- Hi Modesty
I did today a dialogue about your situation. I won't publish it here, because it was a tough dialogue

When I asked: how is the best way for Modesty to solve this situation (disintegration of nuclear family), I got 21,1

So, legal advice seems wise decision. But it is not enough... you need to made a great inner change. Travel to convince her is a bad idea right now; is a desperate idea. This dialogue confirmed that there are some people interfering in the relationship with gosip.. but pointed that the deep cause is not that people.. if you concentrate in blame her (your mother in law), you won't accept your own mistakes; and the posibility to reintegrate your nuclear family could be lost for good.

The good new... your wife does love you, even if right now reject you. There is a posibility to arrive to a "happy end".. I mean, to achieve not only the reintegration of the family, but to fix the love and intimacy.

Full analisis in your mail account."

3.- I won't publish what I wrote you in emails, neither your answers. But I want to say:
a) You refused to recognize any responsability on your side
b) You refuse to follow the advices (not traveling to recover your son, not force her, recognice your own responsabilities

Therefore, I decided not to follow the mail discuss.

However, due to responsability to you, I must repeat the central advice in the answer you got:
"if you ....won't accept your own mistakes; and the posibility to reintegrate your nuclear family could be lost for good"

Best wishes
 

modesty

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Situation unfolds

Hi Autumn, Jesed

I already have the baby with me. My wife has been physically exhausted that she could not look after the baby. So custody would not be a problem (I already had legal advice on this). The only thing that breaks my heart is how the baby will cope without mom.
Jesed, I think you are right about taking responsibility. My realisation at this point in time is that my wife is not coping at all, physically she could not even cope with normal daily activities. If I managed to get more support in the first place, things would probably be better than they are now. When I travelled to see my wife, I never tried to convince her to come back. I just have to see my baby and my wife agreed that the baby is better off back home. I already told her last night that I accept her criticism and the ball is in her court. In the mean time, I will do my best to look after the baby.
I also guessed you did not agreed with my approach and did not complete the dialogue. Well, if you decide to do it now that we have some common ground, please let me know

By the way, I consulted the Yi last night and asked for comment on the current situation. I got Hex 39 + 1+3+4 =>17(again). What is your take?

Regards,

modesty
 

autumn

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Modesty,
I have not followed your threads, and am not familiar with the background. I was trying to read your first question as about her following through on her plans. With the background you give, yes, she intends to follow through, but to her detriment.

Again I offer practical advice. This is not a reading. I am a mother, and to lose contact with a child, especially an infant, is unthinkable to me. This would be like having my heart ripped out of me. I can only imagine that your wife needs serious, serious help. Maybe she is depressed. I don't understand why any family member (her mother) would try to convince a family to break up. You mentioned the country- I don't know the situation, maybe there is a shocking culture difference?

In any case, any good grandmother would never allow their grandson to be separated from his mother. I don't know what is going on, but for the sake of your family, stay extremely calm and centered to offset your wife's emotional floundering, and try to help her if you can. No sane mother can stay away from their child. I must think she will come back, unless she is deeply disturbed, and when she does, if you are calm and do not react you will have a better chance of working through things.
 

dobro p

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"I consulted the Yi last night and asked for comment on the current situation. I got Hex 39 + 1+3+4 =>17(again)"

Yeah, for me the 'again' bit is the most significant. The fact that you drew Hex 39 as the primary hex is no surprise - 39's about a limping advance, hindered, hampered, limping, impeded in some way - and that's exactly where you're at right now. But the relating hex is what holds out hope, especially cuz you got the same relating hex when you drew 62>17. Hex 17 talks about something worthy to follow. So to me, the fact you keep drawing 17 as a relating hex seems to be saying: "You're moving toward a situation in which you will find something worthy to follow." Hang in there, in other words. Take care of business and accept the fact that things are gonna be bumpy for a while, in the knowledge that things are also going to become clearer in the near future.
 

modesty

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Hi Autumn

Yes, you are right, my wife needs serious help. She has gone off her medication and is extremely depressed. Her relationship with her mother can be described as toxic at best. Her mother does not think it is bad for a baby to be away from parents and she likes to keep the baby for herself. It is not too much of a cultural difference but an exceptionally bad personal situation.
Not seeing my child for 6 weeks was pure hell for me, like you say, as having your heart ripped out. Now that I have my son here with me, I am trying my best to entertain him when he misses his mother and hope that she would return before too long.

Regards,

modesty
 

willowfox

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Hi modesty,

I consulted the Yi last night and asked for comment on the current situation. I got Hex 39 + 1+3+4 =>17(again).

hex 39.1 think how to deal with your problem but retreat for the moment, stay still.

hex 39.3 As father of the you should retreat, do nothing to provoke the situation.

hex 39.4 stay still, too many problems if you try to do something, gather together. Be a real good friend to your wife.

hex 17 following, in this situation use no force of any kind, in fact be willing to help her, be open with her. But do not burden yourself with this problem of her talking about leaving, retire from the fight, ride out this storm. It appears to be a minor upset (well, I hope it is) the only thing that you can really do for the next 4-5 days is to sit it out, and do not be drawn into an argument. It takes two to fight. Watch, listen and be nice.

You say your wife is very depressed but is she also suicidal? For the moment it seems that she needs a lot of help and support, I'd take her to a doctor very quickly if I were you, get her back on the medication for her own good. Anyway, I still see it as only a temporary setback in your relationship. Your in a bad position, shes ill, take it slowly and look after the sick.
 
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autumn

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Modesty,
How old is the baby? Is it possibly post-partum depression? Regardless of what kind of depression it is, this is like a black fog that is oppressing her. Her mind and personality cannot function they way they normally would. Her medication may save her life, so it is critical that she get back on it. I suppose her mother doesn't think she needs it, she's trying to convince her that the problem is you?

When you live with a person who is sick, it changes your personality, too. It becomes tempting to try to tell them what to do, or to "fix" the problem for them, and to become angry if they won't listen. This is the worst thing you can do right now. You can't treat her like a sick person, or be-little her in any way. Instead, be a source of strength without being condescending or controlling in any way. She will be naturally drawn back to the most healthy place for her, which is with you and her child, not with her mother. She is regressing right now because the illness is overwhelming her.

Have no doubt, she will be back for that child, and she is deeply torn emotionally. If you can have peace, and not pester her, it will naturally draw her. Find support for yourself to be able to do that.

The hexagram 17 is part of the energy of the situation. When you are depressed it is easy to become passive, and to allow external things in your environment to make the decisions for you. 39 is described as a terrain with many obstacles. To surmount the obstacles, you need help, the assisantance of the Great Man. You are also blocked; there is only one way forward open to you. Because 39 results in 17, you are probably being given advice to navigate what blocks your path.

Bradford writes of 39: "Impasse. Worthwhile west to south. Not worthwhile east to north. Rewarding to encounter a mature human being. Persistence is opportune."

Line 1: "If going is impassable, then coming back is respectable. It is reasonable to wait."
Line 2: "The sovereign's minister is set back and interrupted, but this is not one person's cause. In the end there is no reproach."
Line 4: "If going is impassable, then coming back means alliance. The appropriate position is in reality."

This is giving you hope. It is a map to navigate these problems with persistence. Take the advice of 39 and seek the Great Man. Get as much help as possible. Put your energy there, and be nothing but gentle with your wife. Her own returning sanity and returning health will naturally draw her home.
 

modesty

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Hex 45+1 =>17

Hi Willowfox, Autumn

My wife has Borderline Personality Disorder (even though a mild one). I could not convince her to come back to medication and therapy. Anyway, I took your advice and teried to be her friend and told her that please go do your things and come back to see the baby. This seems to have a good effect on her.

I asked the Yi afterward to comment on the situation, I got 45+1 =>17
Hex 17 keep cropping up again and again (at least four times now). What do you think?



Regards,
modesty
 

autumn

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I believe 17 is the unstable energy in the situation, as I was saying in the above thread, and you can expect many reversals and changes. This isn't permanent. Your reading, though 45.1, is a positive indication you are finally on the right track.

I am sorry to hear that her problem is Borderline Personality Disorder. That's much more ingrained and difficult to treat than depression. I don't know if you're aware of this, but there is a good deal of psychological literature on Borderline/Narcissistic couples. When one "tends" toward emotional instability and identity diffusion, the other "tends" toward Narcissism, meaning, they derive their identity from other people, superficial identities, and material things, and they have great difficulty seeing themselves as part of the problem, because it's very threatening to them to admit that anything may be wrong with themselves.

On the other hand, there are many couples where one is disturbed, and the other is not Narcissistic, but becomes beaten down and worn out by being in relationship with the Borderline.

I suggest you take some time to examine yourself as realistically as possible, which is what 39.4 is pointing you toward. Meet reality- both people. Part of the dynamic of what the Narcissistic partner does is to project their flaws onto a partner that appears to others to be clearly weaker and more emotional. If you are doing this, you can get help for yourself. But first, you have to identify it in yourself, and become aware of it. If that doesn't describe you, then to be in relationship with a Borderline will be for you 6.6 (47). This will go on and on the rest of your lives and affect your son, either way.

When you consult the Yi again, ask about yourself.
 

martin

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45 to 17 looks like you have done the right thing, Modesty. Giving her the space she feels she needs is probably best.
Take good care of yourself. I had a partner that suffered from borderline and I know how difficult it is. It slowly undermines you.
What Autumn asked - is it possibly post-partum depression? - is relevant by the way. We also had a baby and my partner was extremely depressed after child birth and also during the first months of pregnancy. And blamed me for it ...
Good luck!
 

modesty

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Hex 35+1+3+4+5 to 37

Hi Autumn, Martin
I am glad you are aware of the BPD condition, my wife has been going through treament (medication + psychotherapy) and was showing good progress. My therapist told me that my wife represents the best kind of patients who recognise that there is a problem and are willing to work on it. What I overlooked is the extreme loneliness and the feeling of getting stuck with a child day in day out that really broke her spirit.

I tried another open conversation with her and she agreed on principle to come back if there is a job here so that she can be close to the baby.

I consulted the Yi afterward for comment and I got 35+ lines 1,3,4, and 5 resulting to 37.
My understanding is that 37 is not a good omen if the enquirer is a male, hex 35 looks like I made some progress but with so many moving lines and that I am no longer unbiased, any comment would be appreciated
Regards,

modesty
 

willowfox

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Hi modesty,

I asked the Yi afterward to comment on the situation, I got 45+1 =>17

hex 45.1 says you are really not sure what to do for the best, this is slowing the healing process in your relationship. It is causing you emotional distress and your wife is still very confused. But, keep going, help her, then hopefully things should get better for the both of you.

hex 17 says that you must learn to adapt to the needs and problems of your wife. To be the father figure you must learn how to serve your wife.You are not her master, you are both equals in this relationship, treat her properly and you will gain her trust and affection. As always, think very carefully before you make a move, healing takes time, hasty actions will give cause for regret. Perseverance leads to success.
 

jte

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Looking over your description of what happened, now I think that 62.3 referred to her and the impact of her psychological issues.

A lot of others have commented on your other readings, which I think is great. The only thing I'd add is that I'm seeing a bit of a thread of assistance (39.4, 45). So perhaps helping her get back to medication and whatever else she needs to help herself through that is part of the recommendation here (albeit difficult to accomplish, as you describe).

- Jeff
 

willowfox

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Hi modesty,

I consulted the Yi afterward for comment and I got 35+ lines 1,3,4, and 5 resulting to 37.
hex 35.1 says that you are trying to talk to your wife but you are being held back because she is still unsure about what to do. Nevermind, persevere and remain calm.
hex 35.3 says you will both agree to try again.
hex 35.4 says to be open and honest at all times but beware of her mother (hamster, rat) who may once again try to upset everything.
hex 35.5 says that unhappiness will disappear. You are slowly gaining ground, of course minor problems will occur from time to time but no cause for alarm. Always do your best and stick to the way that you are doing things.

hex 37 says when you and your wife are back to being a couple once again then all should be well in the family. You should be considerate, flexible, open, honest, helpful and attentive to her and her needs. As there is now a problem, it is the proper time to mend it. Act always with the interests of the family coming first, so that once again you all can become a close knit unit. This hex is about family, everybody doing the right things, working together, doing things together, being happy together, all these things will lead to success in your family affairs.
 

modesty

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thanking you all

My baby and I just came back from the airport seeing his mother off. We all cried our eyes out. For the first time, in stead of expressing anger, my wife simply told me of her feeling " I am so lonely here with nothing to do". The understanding is that if she can find some work where we live then she would come back. We came home feeling a little lighter.

Thank you all of you for providing insight and advice in time of need. No doubt you will see my name crop up again. God Bless

modesty
 

autumn

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Modesty,
With all due respect, you are probably aware that finding a job will not make anything better for your wife. It will just add more stress to her life. She's super-lucky to even have the opportunity to be able to stay home with her baby. Her lack of adjustment to the routine is about her. Her anger and lack of fulfillment are symptoms of an underlying emotional emptiness that can't be filled with a job, or a baby, or anything except deep emotional work.

With all due respect, focus on the deeper issues for you and for her, and consult the Yi about yourself and what decisions you should be making.
 

luz

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Well, I agree with Autumn about the deeper issues that need work but "being able to be with the baby" is not always such a fortunate situation.
I love my kids to pieces and am anything but distant with them but, when they were babies (and only 16 months apart), I found it very stressful to take care of them full time. I have always worked, was lucky enough to always have a baby sitter at home and I was very thankful for that.

Not to mention that in some cases mothers in a depressed state can be very dangerous to their own kids. I think in fact, it would be irresponsible to make Modesty's wife stay home with the baby if she doesn't feel up to it.

I think that a job for her would be beneficial, if that is what she chooses to do. There is a lot of work that has to be done to get her to a good place, so to speak, but in the meantime, staying busy is one of the best therapies in the world! :)
 

autumn

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The reason I emphasize a job won't solve the problem is because Borderlines constantly disrupt their lives and the lives of other people because they are "unfulfilled". Depending on how bad each individual is- and there's a lot of variety- they can be deeply selfish, and use other people as pawns and tools. They use their kids to "fulfill" themselves. They don't think- it's my job to meet my kid's needs.

One of the first things they need to do to heal is to have limits placed on how much disruption they can cause other people. They need to have boundaries, and telling her, "no, you're problem is not that you don't have a job, you're problem is within yourself", is (probably) how their therapist would direct them to deal with this. Borderlines ususally have a very, very, very difficult time holding jobs, anyway.
 

modesty

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Hi

Hi Autumn, Lightangel

I have many discussion with various people including the therapist and my thinking is that a job would not solve my wife's problem. However, as Lightangel pointed out, many mothers, Borderline or not, found it very difficult to be stuck with a baby day in day out (we have very little support by way of friends and family) and can even be dangerous to their baby. I believe that with better supports, my wife can get back to therapy. This is only one necessary step in the long process of healing. My wife also held a well paid job for years but she gave it up because I asked her to.

Now, we are just waiting...don't know what else to do. I run out of questions to ask the Yi

Best Regards,

modesty
 

luz

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Hi Modesty,

I don't think even your wife thinks that getting a job will solve her problems. Seeing a therapist and/or medication will probably solve them. But the way I see it, while she is working towards solving her problems she needs to exist peacefully and comfortably. If she went to live with you and stayed home all dayt that might not be ideal. She told you she gets bored. And I know from experience that there is nothing worse than inactivity to exacerbate depression or anxiety. As I said, being busy is usually great therapy.
That might not necessarily mean a job but some sort of occupation, maybe taking classes or something like that. But the last thing she needs is to be home all day and have all the responsabilities a normal stay at home mom has.
That is, of course, my humble opinion. I do wish you the very best. :)
 

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