51-36 heart/electro-therapy

bruce_g · Nov 17, 2006

I've been having severe neck pain, an old condition which occasionally flares up. Yesterday a friend came over with a "TENS unit": a small electro-therapy device used to relieve pain. After finding the intensity and rhythm which felt right, I experienced a 50% improvement in neck pain after 15 minutes or so. However, after 30 minutes my heart began palpitating rapidly. I have a heart condition known as CHF, and medical tests have come back saying "weak heart".

I've done a little research on this and have found some warnings on heart patients using a TENS unit. Please - I'm not looking for medical opinions here, but I would appreciate your take directly related to the reading I received about this: 51, lines 3 and 4, changing to 36.

My own take is that, it is effective to relieve the pain, but also that there are heart dangers involved with using the TENS. Do you concur with this, or do you see something I may be missing?

Thanks.

nicky_p · Nov 17, 2006

Hi Bruce,

You don’t say what your question was – whether it was an evaluation of the TENS unit as a piece of medical kit or an evaluation of your experience with it. I’m inclined to see it as an evaluation of your experience with it. 51 seems to describe both how it works – using (electric) shock – and how it has affected you – causing shock and line 3 especially talking about the shock to your heart making you distraught. With line 4 were you apprehensive about the electric shock factor before you tried it? 36 could be describing the dulling of the pain in your neck and advice not to think that it is gone completely – still guard that area.

Hope you feel better. Take care.
Love
Nicky

frank_r · Nov 17, 2006

Hello Bruce,

My first idea of your reading from 51 is that you are working with current, although it's very low, it is current. So very yang. And that's reflected in 51, thunder(electricity).

Changing lines 3 and 4, the man lines so there is a effect on deeper parts of your body. The third line is changing from yin into yang, so inside you are getting yanger, and the fourth line changes from yang to yin, so on the outside it's looks more relexed.

36 for me is saying that in the long term it takes away your light, your haerth energy.

So I would say, please take care.

Best Wishes Frank R

Trojina · Nov 17, 2006

bruce_g said:
My own take is that, it is effective to relieve the pain, but also that there are heart dangers involved with using the TENS. Do you concur with this, or do you see something I may be missing?

Thanks.

I agree with your interpretation. 51,3 especially being so literal, talking about the heart smothering, I would certainly see it as an indication to desist. Take care ! :hug:

luz · Nov 17, 2006

Hmmm... I don't see 51.3 talking about the heart, are we confusing it with 52.3? Or maybe there is a translation that does? I looked up Wilhelm and he talks about three kinds of shock and he says this line refers to the 'shock of fate'...

In any case, line 4 says to me that there are no bad consequences to this. I think you are being reassured that there is no damage done. And perhaps the fast heart beat was caused even by anxiety over having used this device.

I don't think there is a need to wonder about whether you should continue using this or not, since you already found references to it being dangerous for people ith heart conditions. So, you already know it will be best not to use it. The Yi knows that you know this..

As for the neck... stretch, stretch, stretch....

Take care.

bruce_g · Nov 17, 2006

Nicky, you're right, I didn't mention a question here. Sorry about that. The question was an open one, like: what about using the TENS?

Trojan, I think Angel's correct about smothering heart and 52.3, but thanks for your caring reply. :hug:

Frank, interesting on the yin/yang of the lines. Thanks for pointing that out.

Angel, I can’t say I knew for sure, even based on the warnings I’ve read. Every label has warnings these days, and the reaction could have simply been a minor affect, like an eye tick reaction. In any case I turned it off immediately at that point.

The questionable factor in the reading was in line 3. Brad translates this as:

“The shock awakens and revives. Be excited to movement instead of distress”

This actually made me wonder if the stimulus could possibly be a healthy thing, not only for the pain but for the heart.

Then there is the “mired” or “muddled-ness” of line 4. This could have referred to other factors mixing into the response such as anxiety. Confusion of factors, or such.

If there is/was real danger I’d think 28 or 29 would have been more direct answers to that.

I did chuckle at receiving 51 though. Can we say “best fit”?

“Take care” is pretty much my conclusion too, especially with 36 in the equation.

Thanks, gang.

autumn · Nov 17, 2006

If your question was somewhere along the lines of, “show me what’s happening when I get the treatment?”, then the answer looks like a description of what is going on physically.

51 is pretty obvious- a current of electricity. 36, on the other hand, reminds me of a description of CHF- Your heart as a center of light being covered by the ‘darkness’ of fluid that builds up in CHF.

When you get treatment, “minor inner shocks” (Line 3) or a small amount of current traveling through your body that is specifically qualified as not to the heart, (Line 3, Wilhelm- and you know that qualification is correct- the current is not directed toward you heart), are absorbed, probably by all of the tissue between the source of the current being directed toward the and the heart (Line 4).

Both lines speak of “something happening”, but the effects are not fatal.

bruce_g · Nov 17, 2006

autumn said:
If your question was somewhere along the lines of, “show me what’s happening when I get the treatment?”, then the answer looks like a description of what is going on physically.

51 is pretty obvious- a current of electricity. 36, on the other hand, reminds me of a description of CHF- Your heart as a center of light being covered by the ‘darkness’ of fluid that builds up in CHF.

When you get treatment, “minor inner shocks” (Line 3) or a small amount of current traveling through your body that is specifically qualified as not to the heart, (Line 3, Wilhelm- and you know that qualification is correct- the current is not directed toward you heart), are absorbed, probably by all of the tissue between the source of the current being directed toward the and the heart (Line 4).

Both lines speak of “something happening”, but the effects are not fatal.

Yes, good points, all. Your conclusion is very much as mine. Thanks.

willowfox · Nov 17, 2006

"what about using the TENS?"

Isn't this question about the machine itself?

Hex 51.3 the machine has the power to revive dormant energy, very good.

Hex 51.4 now its power is being wasted through non use, therefore time to try again.

Hex 36 the machine is hiding its light/brilliance because of adversity. You believe that the machine can cause health problems, so you are both afraid and annoyed with it. But the true value of this machine is hidden, the light/power to overcome the pain of the public. Its light will remain hidden until you take it out and try it again. It hides its light but it still shines for many people. Its reputation is hurt by its enemies.

bruce_g · Nov 17, 2006

Hi Willowfox,

I should have been more clear. The question was about the experience, the benefit or danger of using the unit, over all – pain relief and heart together. I’ve used professional electro-therapy in the past, and I’m already familiar with the TENS unit itself.

On 36, you make an interesting point though. The potential is there but hidden, something you can’t see working and yet it does, but only if it’s used. It really did an amazing job of relieving the pain.

“Releasing slush”, as LiSe says of line 4, really makes a lot of sense to me. Those acquainted with chronic pain know that it crosses a threshold, where it is no longer just pain, it steals all your energy, all your life force and mental clarity, things are dull and “slushy”.

The reading’s becoming clearer.

Thanks.

luz · Nov 17, 2006

Angel, I can’t say I knew for sure, even based on the warnings I’ve read. Every label has warnings these days, and the reaction could have simply been a minor affect, like an eye tick reaction. In any case I turned it off immediately at that point.

Ah, yes, I realize you didn't know it back then.. I just meant going forward... and, although WF presents an interesting point of view about a machine with great healing powers but reviled by its enemies, and even though I also experience 51 as not a real danger (I could label it the 'adrenaline' hexagram sometimes).... I think it will be best to not use the machine anymore?

What can I say, I'm a coward...

Maybe that is why I get 51 so much

I also loved the 'best fit' situation. I get that a lot and, even though most of the times I can't really figure out exactly what the Yi is saying, the answer still seems so appropiate, so to the point that it never ceases to amaze me. :bows:

bruce_g · Nov 17, 2006

lightangel said:
Ah, yes, I realize you didn't know it back then.. I just meant going forward... and, although WF presents an interesting point of view about a machine with great healing powers but reviled by its enemies, and even though I also experience 51 as not a real danger (I could label it the 'adrenaline' hexagram sometimes).... I think it will be best to not use the machine anymore?

What can I say, I'm a coward... Maybe that is why I get 51 so much

I also loved the 'best fit' situation. I get that a lot and, even though most of the times I can't really figure out exactly what the Yi is saying, the answer still seems so appropiate, so to the point that it never ceases to amaze me. :bows:

Yes, I meant moving forward too.

Decided to call the cardio-doc next week before buying one.

dobro p · Nov 17, 2006

"but I would appreciate your take directly related to the reading I received about this: 51, lines 3 and 4, changing to 36."

Globally: the Yi seems to saying something like 'this technique is a shock to your system that darkens the light' - ie, not such a great idea.

The individual lines: they're contradictory, aren't they? So, my take on that would be that the treatment's good for one condition but useless for the other condition.

However, it's almost always my view that the global situation takes precedence over the micro level.

RindaR · Nov 18, 2006

Bruce,

LiSe ends 36 by saying "Don't shoot your sun, just the surplus of brightness." I wonder if this means you need to turn down the current, and it will be ok. If your TENS unit sends current across your shoulders, it may cross the vagal nerve which stimulates/controls the heartbeat. It may just be that you need to be careful where you place the elecrodes so that you don't overstimulate that nerve. Of course, do see or talk with your cardio, he/she will be able to tell you more. I don't know that much about TENS units, I'm just shooting in the dark here, Bruce.

Rinda

bruce_g · Nov 18, 2006

Dobro, thanks. That was my first impression too.

Rinda, my friend cautioned against placing one contact on each side of center. And as for moderation, I believe that’s the key. Intensity setting was moderate. Frankly, after the first 15 minutes the pain didn’t continue getting any better, but I went another 15 just because it felt nice. Not a good idea. Thanks.

autumn · Nov 18, 2006

rinda said:
LiSe ends 36 by saying "Don't shoot your sun, just the surplus of brightness." I wonder if this means you need to turn down the current, and it will be ok. Rinda

Bruce, thought of this very same thing later, so wanted to add confirmation of the idea. 36 might represent a) the current is absorbed by the body, and is not harmful at the level you're using, or b) turn down the current. Either way, I certainly wish you well and hope you feel better.

bruce_g · Nov 18, 2006

autumn said:
Bruce, thought of this very same thing later, so wanted to add confirmation of the idea. 36 might represent a) the current is absorbed by the body, and is not harmful at the level you're using, or b) turn down the current. Either way, I certainly wish you well and hope you feel better.

So then, when hair stands straight up it's too high?

hilary · Nov 18, 2006

Joining in a little late - I would leave off the TENS, too. What about using it? Shock, harming brightness. 51 suggests a succession of shocks, a chain reaction. The two lines mirror what you experienced - therapeutic effect at first, not so much later. Not that Yi actually says whether the release of a bog is good or bad, but in the context of CHF it doesn't sound good. (I know there's another interpretation of 51.4 - that it frees you from the bog - but I've always seen it as releasing the bog itself.)

Which is what you'd already decided - just agreeing anyway.

frank_r · Nov 19, 2006

Hello Bruce,

I was thinking of the effect from the TENS, and I know that when you place the electrodes on the top of the shoulders you give electricity on the Nervus vagus which is the nerve who is having a connection with the heart. And between the shoulder blades there is segmentale influence on the heart. When you place them on the neck there is not a great influence on the heart.

But as a professional working with TENS I always see heart conditions as a contra indication. So Tai Qi excercises to give the breast more qi will have a far more greater effect on the heart and in the long term also on the neck. So if your interested I can always give you some.

Best wishes Frank

...life can be translucent

51-36 heart/electro-therapy

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