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Hex 24.2 to 19 Should I get pregnant at this time?

magdalena

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Hello there,

I'm reasonably new to I Ching, a friend of mine suggested to check out this site as it's full of people who know their stuff (& are v helpful) so here i am....

My partner and I decided to start trying for a baby (am soooo excited!) so I asked the Yi to let me know whether it was advantageous for me to fall pregnant at this time to which I got hexagram 24.2 changing to 19. I'm a bit worried about the 8th month and misfortune bit, how should I interpret it? It doesn't sound very optimistic... Does it predict a miscarriage or something towards the end of the pregnancy??? I think that overall the reading is positive so I hope it is something less dramatic but I need your help on this... please help...
 
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bruce

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Hi Magdalena,

While I wouldn?t take my (or anyone else?s) word on this for something so critical as you?re asking, 19 presents, in general, a hopeful outlook for pregnancy at this time. Expansion is implied (kind of cute, I think), and the overseeing aspect of 19 seems to say ?leave it to the gods? (or God, if you prefer) to determine the time to conceive. 24 is a turning point, which bearing a child surely is.

The 8th month misfortune could be saying that birthing a child isn?t all fun and joy, and that raising and overseeing a child (19) is a huge undertaking, with lots of ups and downs. Line 2 of 24 suggests remaining calm and connected, which is always the best place to be in to make life changing decisions such as this. The relating line of 19.2 speaks of joint approach, stressing that shared interest and responsibility are imperative to bring about success.
 

frank

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Hi Magdalena,

Welcome aboard! I think hexagram 24 in the first place can mean to get back to basics first. Is this something you both abselutely realy, realy, realy want (I guess you do, by the way :-D!)? But do you realy want it NOW... As 19 could mean not to wait to long (longer then 8 months...), but 24 means to get back at something first... before making another 'earthly citizen' :-D... Like the Yi is trying to tell you there is something to be done BEFORE getting this child... Is there something to be down first? Despite the wonderfull time you are going to have in creating another human being :-D, there should be litarly something else, which you could look over... And to be honest, I do not have a clue what so ever what that will be then... Do you?

Line 2 of 24 tells of resting in return... Are you both to eager? Are you trying TO MUCH? And not relaxing about it? Do you want it to badly and creates that some tension? There is something about 'aproaching' each other (19 is called 'aproaching' in I Ching literature..), so that's why I wander about the thing of a demand of some sort... Do you want it more then your partner wants it?

There is something that has to figured out first, before you do the job, but do not hasitate to long.

Have fun :-D

Hug,
Frank
 

magdalena

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Hi guys, thank you so much for the imput. Bruce's response is v positive I think and I do realise that it will not be easy at times, I hope I'm all prepared for that. Frank touched on some very interesting points, wow, I didn't realise you can pick up things like that from looking/reading the hexagram and so accurate! There are indeed things that need to be sorted out first like eg. deciding whether we are to stay where we are (a small-ish flat, I say small-ish as my partner already has two children who come and stay with us every other weekend and one day during the week so there is currently just about enough space for the two of us and them) or buying a house (financial restrictions).. On one hand it would be better to wait until we are better settled but on the other hand waiting for that perfect moment to have a child we might wait forever. I'm in my mid 30s so Im keen to get on with it which brings me to Frank's second point of me wanting this pregnancy definitely more than my partner who I think is doing it for me more than anything else. He said that ideally he would not have any more children but he loves me and thinks I should be given the chance of being a mother and if he wants to be with me he has to give me this chance. I can't believe you were able to pick this up!

Am I right to assume then that it is ok to go forward with the plan and hope that things will work themselves out or shall we wait for a more appropriate time? (I've stopped using any protection!)
 

frank

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Hi Magdalena,

Thank you for the credit. Most of the time I can be acurate, but because I'm on the other side of the computerline, I have no clue in what kind of situation the answer actualy is playing. I did not had the nerve to say that there should be done some work between you and your partner in 'aproaching' each other in what both sides want and especially WHEN you want it, so I brought it the way I brought it... :-D. Good to hear I hid some jackpot again...

I guess the Yi by answering 24.2 is telling you that you have to do some discipline in making deals with each other, before getting started, otherwise it can break you up later (the 8th month)... It has to do with YOUR aproach, as YOU asked the question and Returning to your inner self (24) is connected to YOU. After you thought the plan realy over and over and you and your partner ar both on speaking terms and agreements on this whole thing, then the Yi says... go for it... BUT NOT NOW... Talk first... Negociate, get both the noses in the same direction... :-D.

Another way of looking at it is to the shape of the hexagram... Usualy, and yes not all the time that is, but usualy the lower trigram is about YOU and the upper trigram about the other one, or the situation... Concerning to you the lower trigram is Thunder, excitement... Arousing... Well, I guess you should be in some kind of mood for it, so to speak... :-D... You already told us that you are aroused by the idea of becoming a mother... The upper trigram is Earth, Motherhood.... By stay relaxed and letting the time do it's job, you change Thunder (below) into Lake... Hapiness and Communication... So, here it is again... TALK BEFORE YOU WALK :-D...
On another level you could also say that your partner is Thunder (he is at schock first as he already has two children...), but has to wait, and GIVE TIME TO ACCEPT (Earth upper trigram) to the idea, and time will give him that space and acceptance... Give it a bit time for him... I think that is a good advice...

Hang in there...

Hug
Frank
 

magdalena

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There is a lot of truth in what you are saying Frank. My partner, poor thing, is trying his best to make sure we are all happy (me and his children) but perhaps it is all a bit overwhelming for him at the moment. Maybe I should give him more time to accept all the changes so that he can look forward to it as well. This "after 8th month misfortune" still worries me a bit though, it really does sound quite scary. It sounds like a prediction rather than a warning but I'm new to this whole thing so I don't really know. Isn't the second hexagram supposed to give a picture of the future to come (the 1st hexagram is the present, changing lines are the advice and 2nd Hexagram is the predicted future or is this a very "beginners" way of looking at it?). I guess I have a long way to go yet (there are also lines in other hexagrams that are puzzling me like "crossing the great river or something about an old ghost that's returned to take revenge for past mistreatment - very scary!) but I guess that's a topic for a new thread.

For the time being has anyone else got any experience with the "misfortune in 8th month" in Hexagram 19?
 
S

seeker

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Actually the resulting hex is often more difficult to interpret because it can mean different things. Sometimes it is represents the possible future, but it can also be the current situation, the overall tone, etc.

Looking at Lises interpretation 24 is about following your own Tao, your own road, the natural cycles of your life.

Line 2 is defined as follows:
Who has strength can return thus matter-of-course that nobody will contest his decision. Everybody will immediately accept it as the natural thing to do. One?s own ease makes ease with others. Everyone will have the freedom to be what he is, which is the base of good relations.

I think perhaps you are being told that this is your decision, follow the natural progression, whatever your inner voice tells you is best, and if you are at ease with your decision, everyone else will be also. There must, afterall, be a reason you asked the question in the first place.
 

magdalena

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Many thanks Seeker, I'm starting to get the concept, I guess one must work closely with ones intuition to get the right interpretation. Any thoughts on the "after 8th month misfortune"?
 
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micheline

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I think of Bradford when I see hex 19 because he wrote about that and the pending potential misfortune of the 8th month in a thread I remember. What follows is what I gleaned from his words and have thought of many times ( I am NOT quoting him, only expressing what it meant to me...)

My organic garden is the perfect example I use. 19 is about the time when you can smell spring in the air, but it is NOT the time when the buds are already breaking ground. 19 is the time when you need to get to work and start to prepare the soil (which is thawing). If , at the first scent of spring, you begin to prepare the ground and are willing to work hard, the seeds will go in at the right time and the way will be prepared for an abundant harvest.

If you neglect your early chance, and fail to do the preliminary ground work, by the eighth month you will have misfortune...as i did this year. My garden got out of control because I failed to really prepare, and by august I had given up and had weeds taller than me.Misfortune! NOt to mention a missed opportunity.

The first signs of spring are important. Lay the groundwork NOW. 24.2 is the turning point. It is time to plan and prepare. Be willing to get your "hands dirty". Spring is coming and by then you will plant. The misfortune of the 8th month need never happen if you have planned and tended to the soil. Instead of misfortune, you can have an abundant, well-thought-out harvest of new LIFE.

if not, there is always the next year!
 

bradford_h

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Hi Micheline-
Yeah, what you said.
I would add that the 8th month is also a reference to Hexagram 20, Guan, Observing, the Sovereign Gua of the Eighth Month and 19's Inverse. That's the same Guan, by the way, as in the Goddess name Kuan Yin (observes the cries).
The "prediction" of misfortune here may merely be a statement that now is the time to "get busy" (I hear this behavior leads to pregnancy somehow), but that it's an unfortunate time if it's only used to procrastinate by studying the problem further.
 

bradford_h

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I should add that Wilhelm's translation isn't very literal: When the eigth month comes there will be misfortune.
Word by word for Zhi Yu Ba Yue You Xiong:
To arrive in the eighth month would be unfortunate
(ie, too late to do anything useful, timing is no longer right).
 

hilary

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Does it have to be 'arrive in the eighth month'? Can't it be 'finishing' in the eighth month?
 

bradford_h

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Could be, if you mean taking eight months to finish the task. As long as it implies motion towards an end. These are the entries I have in my glossary for Zhi.

zhi4 _ 0982 413a 133+0 02.1
(to) attain, come, reach (to); arrive (at), accomplish, approach, become, come to be/pass, come up to, complete, result in, consummate, culminate, go as far as, succeed in, perfect (s, ed, ing); (to be) accomplished, approached, arrived at, attained, best, complete(d), consummate(d), extreme, farthest, finest, fulfilled, greatest, highest, most, perfect(ed), reached, realized, thorough, utmost, mature; adequate, suitable; (a, the) apex, attainment, completion, consummation, end (of), optimum, outcome, prime, ultimate, zentih; solstice, highest point, utmost; very, extremely, even, as far as, as much as, as long as, up to, at best, until; at, to; -est
 

auriel

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magdalena-
the "evil" of the 8th month is only the taking over of instincts before the baby comes, preparing the nest and all. evil only as in the sense of disrupting the status quo and fulfilling the "work" that was started. trust me on that.
its really good that you spend time now thinking through all the foundations of the life your creating. . .
we're talking about a geminii or cancer baby?
best wishes!
 

auriel

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everybody-

the 8 months was a convenient metaphor for all co-operative endeavors, (armies training for war, for example) these have 3 stages: incubation, violent re-ordering, going into battle. same thing writing a book, preparing a party, elections: someone'll get hurt at some level at stage 2 according to context. here its normal, life-affirming ;)
 
S

seeker

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hmmm, couple of thoughts after reading some of the posts. arrive or finishing in the 8th month, pregnancies are usually nine months, probably going out on a limb but could this indicate a premature baby?

and Auriels 3 states, incubation, violent reordering, battle, sounds like pregnancy and birth to me
happy.gif


All in all I dont think there is any warning here of misfortune in a bad sense, I think its more follow your heart and if this is really what you want then make the decision, but be prepared for the changes it will bring. I think if Yi wanted to warn you about any danger, it would be a lot less subtle.
 

cal val

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Auriel...

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

the 8 months was a convenient metaphor for all co-operative endeavors<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>And when was this?

I like Brad's translation of Zhi Yu Ba Yue You Xiong. I also like his translation of the lines of 19 but, of course, the lines are a moot point here.

Richard Rutt translates the entire hexagram statement for 19 as:

Supreme offering.
Favorable augury.
Until the eighth moon, disastrous.


And he notes:

<blockquote>Hexagrams 19 and 20 have an incremental structure in the line statements, and both deal with sacrifice.</blockquote>He translates the tag as 'keening', and says about the hexagram as a whole:
<blockquote>Wen Yiduo suggests that these are rain omens. This is attractive, especially in view of the calendar hint in the hexagram statement. Yet Richard Kunst's reading of lin in the well attested meaning of 'ceremonial wailing' or 'funeral keening' makes good sense. Chinese keening has always been dramatically noisy.</blockquote> I've been disappointed that he didn't present a theory about the eight moons. Is this keening for King Wen? Is the eight moons the point in the three-year mourning period when the keening is supposed to end? Or is it in reference to the timing of attacking the Shang capital and an issue King Wu had to consider when weighing between the choice of mourning his father or marching to war?

Also I understand that when the Yi was written (compiled) one meant one, two meant two and three meant three or several, but I haven't read anywhere about eight referring to all co-operative endeavors. I'd love to know your source.

Thanks.

Val
 

bradford_h

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Just in that one line, Rutt leaves out two of the six Chinese words, Yu and You.
 

cal val

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Thanks Brad...

I'm also still contemplating Kunst's choice of funeral keening and Wen Yiduo's suggestion of rain omens. One line makes me wonder. Rutt translates 19.5 "Controlling the keening. a great prince's sacrifice to the soil." Freeman translate the lines as "Wisely wailing the great ruler's funeral." Did Wu bury Wen (and then carry a tablet representing him into battle)? Or is this about the rain that the soil needs? I still have so much to learn. That's why I really appreciate it when people cite their sources.

Love,

Val
 

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