Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone had some thoughts on 39.6

The background to my question was about the age-old battle with the dragon of the personality and how we can learn to decentralise ourselves to become less self-obsessed and more expansive. I asked if this is largely a natural process rather than something actively "forced."

topal

Howdy Topal,

Only thing which comes to mind is, could it be that you are relying too much on how you are perceived (by yourself and others), rather than just being comfortable with who you are?

I was just talking to a friend of mine who volunteers for Habitat for Humanity. He's retired contractor and his buddies wonder why they don't see him on the golf course. He says he thinks golf is boring, and he gets no pleasure from the other activities one is supposed to go in for after retirement either. So...

39.6
Going leads to obstruction - Going off on a path of self indulgence holds no appeal.
Coming leads to great good fortune - Volunteering brings good fortune both to those we help and to ourselves.
It furthers one to see the great man - My friend has become best buddies with the supervisor on the job, who greatly values both my friend and his expertise. This is enough for my friend, but I can also see this as meaning that when we volunteer it can't help but look good on our resume, should we later want to ask "the great man" for a paying job.

topal said:

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone had some thoughts on 39.6

The background to my question was about the age-old battle with the dragon of the personality and how we can learn to decentralise ourselves to become less self-obsessed and more expansive. I asked if this is largely a natural process rather than something actively "forced."

topal

Click to expand...

Seems to be saying ''Don't force it.'' See the pit in front of you and stop. Don't try to plow on through regardless of the consequences. Maybe you fear what lies ahead and so it seems to be an unresolvable impasse. So you seek the help of others because you can't see the way right now. The background situation is one of gradual progress, so don't be unnerved by whatever obstacles might crop up along the way. Keep calm and your actions will spontaneously follow the Tao.

bruce_g said:

Howdy Topal,

Only thing which comes to mind is, could it be that you are relying too much on how you are perceived (by yourself and others), rather than just being comfortable with who you are?

Click to expand...

Hey Bruce,

Could be...Could be. But who am I? There's the rub...

topal

rosada said:

I was just talking to a friend of mine who volunteers for Habitat for Humanity. He's retired contractor and his buddies wonder why they don't see him on the golf course. He says he thinks golf is boring, and he gets no pleasure from the other activities one is supposed to go in for after retirement either. So...

39.6
Going leads to obstruction - Going off on a path of self indulgence holds no appeal.
Coming leads to great good fortune - Volunteering brings good fortune both to those we help and to ourselves.
It furthers one to see the great man - My friend has become best buddies with the supervisor on the job, who greatly values both my friend and his expertise. This is enough for my friend, but I can also see this as meaning that when we volunteer it can't help but look good on our resume, should we later want to ask "the great man" for a paying job.

Click to expand...

I like the way you give real life examples to illustrate the Hex's Rosada - it's an excellent way to convey meaning.

Incidentally, I've been thinking of volunteering for sometime now. Not to salve my conscience or to try and change the world but because I just want to give something back - really get my hands dirty again. God knows, there are enough who need a helping hand on the ground. One way of freeing things up a bit.

topal

getojack said:

Seems to be saying ''Don't force it.'' See the pit in front of you and stop. Don't try to plow on through regardless of the consequences. Maybe you fear what lies ahead and so it seems to be an unresolvable impasse. So you seek the help of others because you can't see the way right now. The background situation is one of gradual progress, so don't be unnerved by whatever obstacles might crop up along the way. Keep calm and your actions will spontaneously follow the Tao.

Click to expand...

Good summary there Jack and pretty much spot on.

So, I shall raise my glass to the Tao in order to find that "calm" and to do homage to the Great Wine Vat in the sky...

santé

topal

topal said:

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone had some thoughts on 39.6

The background to my question was about the age-old battle with the dragon of the personality and how we can learn to decentralise ourselves to become less self-obsessed and more expansive. I asked if this is largely a natural process rather than something actively "forced."

topal

Click to expand...

"CHIEN : Walk lamely, proceed haltingly; weak-legged, afflicted, crooked; feeble, weak; unfortunate, difficult. The ideogram: foot and cold, impeded circulation in the feet."ERANOS p435

The generic nature of 39 covers (a) going against the flow (standing up to it, obstructing as well as experiencing obstruction) and (b) utilising the flow (go with it to bypass some obstruction).

The really generic nature is of control (water in upper) in a context of self-restraint (block,stop. moutain in lower). The really really generic nature is of issues covering protective boundaries (water) in a context of sharing time with others (mountain).

Line position 6, from an XOR perspective, is ruled by hexagram 23 and the line position is also the source of difference between 39 and its binary sequence pair partner 53.

39 as such is an inconditional form of 'obstructing' whereas 53 is conditional. Both cover a sense of the use of obstructing to allow for development as they do the ability to bypass obstructions to allow for development. In the PAIR there is a sense of the use of blocking and releasing of energies (e.g. chi) for the management of development. The traditional text is a touch one-sided in interpretation ;-)

IC+ view of 39.6

Line 6
"Going leads to obstruction. Coming leads to maturity. Advantageous. Of benefit to see great people." [ Staying to help remove decay and corruption is better than leaving. If you leave, the obstructions go with you.]

The conversion of the top line to yang gives us 53 - gradual progress aka maturing. The controller of the line position, 23, covers the PRUNING nature of 23 and that is brought out in the line comments (remove decay - if you leave the obstructions continue and as such 'go with you' - they are on your mind)

lightofreason said:

The generic nature of 39 covers (a) going against the flow (standing up to it, obstructing as well as experiencing obstruction) and (b) utilising the flow (go with it to bypass some obstruction).

Click to expand...

I'm a little more familiar now with your IC work Chris having visited your web page regularly. The above is interesting in that it it's necessary to do both in this instance. i.e. stand up to it, recognise change and utilise the generic quality of going with the flow as a kind of 43 type situation - head-on attack is not wise. Slow gradual progress seems to be the key.

lightofreason said:

The really generic nature is of control (water in upper) in a context of self-restraint (block,stop. moutain in lower). The really really generic nature is of issues covering protective boundaries (water) in a context of sharing time with others (mountain).

Click to expand...

Again, this is very accurate, even though it is general. Self-restraint is very much part of my way ahead as is sharing with others as part of the natural "by-passing" process.

Line position 6, from an XOR perspective, is ruled by hexagram 23 and the line position is also the source of difference between 39 and its binary sequence pair partner 53.

lightofreason said:

39 as such is an inconditional form of 'obstructing' whereas 53 is conditional. Both cover a sense of the use of obstructing to allow for development as they do the ability to bypass obstructions to allow for development. In the PAIR there is a sense of the use of blocking and releasing of energies (e.g. chi) for the management of development. The traditional text is a touch one-sided in interpretation ;-)

Click to expand...

Ah, now that's very clear: "Both cover a sense of the use of obstructing to allow for development as they do the ability to bypass obstructions to allow for development." This is what I was picking up on recently but I couldn't explain it. Thank you.

lightofreason said:

IC+ view of 39.6

Line 6
"Going leads to obstruction. Coming leads to maturity. Advantageous. Of benefit to see great people." [ Staying to help remove decay and corruption is better than leaving. If you leave, the obstructions go with you.]

The conversion of the top line to yang gives us 53 - gradual progress aka maturing. The controller of the line position, 23, covers the PRUNING nature of 23 and that is brought out in the line comments (remove decay - if you leave the obstructions continue and as such 'go with you' - they are on your mind)

Click to expand...

So, in other words, if I ignore this, the obstructions will remain and thus repeating patterns. What is the reference "to see the great man" or "great people"? How do you see that? Is it symbolic for the higher emotions or real people that act as examples or guiding lights?

Thanks for that Chris, another take on it to enrich the different views.

topal

Hi Topal.


Hexagram 39, line 6

"What is needed here to overcome the obstruction is spiritual direction. Seek out and give honor to the sage, or an expert in the field."

topal said:

I asked if this is largely a natural process rather than something actively "forced."

topal

Click to expand...

No doubt, Cassius.

Love this reading a lot Topal. To me, it says, yes, it is a forced process, but in doing so, one encounters great blessings, great friends. It is very difficult , rare, to find great sages. But if you put yourself on this path, of gaining an expansive mind, they come to help you when you fall.

Love what Chris said, too. About the obstructions coming with you, that sure is true.

hollis said:

No doubt, Cassius.

Love this reading a lot Topal. To me, it says, yes, it is a forced process, but in doing so, one encounters great blessings, great friends. It is very difficult , rare, to find great sages. But if you put yourself on this path, of gaining an expansive mind, they come to help you when you fall.

Love what Chris said, too. About the obstructions coming with you, that sure is true.

Click to expand...

VERY rare to find a Sage. At least the ones that really do radiate something special. That can be the local road sweeper, librarian, post office clerk,etc. As has been said before, the real "sages or saints" are the ones in our midst doing the daily jobs and are there beind the scenes doing a higher "job."

But I think that we have to find our inner sage and then and only then does the person or event show itself to you and by then perhaps, you're ready to recognise it. Whereas before, one's head would, as part of the evolving lesson, be firmly planted up ones own...well, you get the idea

topal

cassius_clay said:

Hi Topal.


Hexagram 39, line 6

"What is needed here to overcome the obstruction is spiritual direction. Seek out and give honor to the sage, or an expert in the field."

Click to expand...

BINGO. Get thyself to a psychologist who is well known and respected. When one has inner conflict constantly demanding one's attention, it is difficult to focus on external things such as family, friends, excellence in one's field, etc.

topal said:

What is the reference "to see the great man" or "great people"? How do you see that? Is it symbolic for the higher emotions or real people that act as examples or guiding lights?

Click to expand...

Sometimes we get lucky and someone hands us a fish, but unless one plans to be a beggar, it's well to learn to catch them yourself. Any sage will point to the answers that already live within yourself. Perhaps he/she may help guide you toward the sage, but they'll never point to themselves. If they do, walk away quickly.

Going leads to obstructions,
coming (back to yourself) leads to great good fortune.
It furthers one to see the great man (in you).