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relationship question this time

esolo

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Enough of jobs, trips to hot places and youth hostels. (I got the job I was asking about btw) Now, I'm going to ask about a relationship of sorts. This is someone I care about and that I haven't seen in quite some time.

What do I need to know about my relationship with him?

58.2 to 17

Well, it doesn't look bad at least. I would like to know why I got a hex about exchange when I'm estranged from this person more or less.

How does he feel about contacting me?

24.5 to 3

He doesn't seem to have any problem with it.

Why hasn't he contacted me yet?

38.1.4.5 to 59

The 38 is obvious as it's about two things being out of contact. It seems that there has been some aversion to contacting me. However, the moving lines suggest that this can be overcome.

I have to confess that I was surprised at the positive answer. Perhaps I didn't believe the Yi. So, I asked about a relationship that I know for sure is dead. I got 62 to 36 which fit the situation perfectly.
 

magictortoise

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Esolo,

I would like to know why I got a hex about exchange when I'm estranged from this person more or less.


Well receiving #58 is, I think, a mixed blessing. One the one hand pleasure and joy, on the other hand the potential to drown in passion. But that is the general outlook. You received a very favorable line and I think that Wilhelm's commentary on p. 687 is apt: The good fortune of sincere joyousness consists in having faith in ones own will. That is, even if your will is to wait upon the initaitvie of the other, or Heaven's initiative ( a chance meeting, for example). He goes on to state that the line is relationship to the dark third line. Could this be the other? Despite all your position, imperative, if you will, is to to remain central and firm. "It trusts itself, is sincere toward others and meets with belief." Sincerity in the Chinese tradition means 'absense of falsehood'. So I think you might examine yourself on 'sincerity', trust in your will and remain firm.

As for why the oracle choose a reply that, to you, seemed odd, well who knows the designs of Tao. I gave up trying to guess years ago.

I think you have asked a good question and the oracle was quite forwith in its reply.

Your interpretation of the second question was very fine, to me. Seems like you have a handle on this.

I have a bit of a problem with the third question and if you have read any of my other posts you know how fanatical I am about framing questions. I generally don't have a good time of it when I ask 'why' questions. I might have asked: given he hasn't contacted me, what ought I to be doing about it?

BTW have you thought about contacting him? If you have doubts ask the oracle if it is time to contact him. Maybe it is best to abide in sincerity and trust as the reply to the first answer suggests.

Best regards,

KgW
 
B

bruce_g

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Hi MT,

I think you'll need to be doing a lot of kicking around here if you want or expect others to conform to your views of divination and Yi. Not that that's always a bad thing, but you might find it frustrating after awhile.

"Yi people" seem to be an independent lot, for the most part, and as Trojan has pointed out on another thread, over time (some their entire adult lifetime) folks find their own dialogue and methods with the Yi.

I don't disagree with you that framing lucid, answerable questions is a good idea, but I think one of the jobs of an interpreter is to be as flexible as the Yijing is, where communication is concerned.
 

magictortoise

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Bruce,
I think I gave a good interpretation here and I did not state that his framing was wrong. Only that I had a problem with it. I think that I can do that. It is, afterall, my take. I was gentle in the handling of it and told the inquirer how I might have framed it. I didn't chide him for not doing so. But if I think a question could be framed better I will always state that. It is my obligation. And framing it differently might actually serve the querant. I don't know that in advance so I suggest. It just might fall on open ears. Querant is free to accept or reject. Just like he is free to accept of reject the oracle's counsel.

I appreciate your input.

Best regards,

Ken Wanamaker
 
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magictortoise

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PS I don't expect anyone to conform to my views. Far from it. I hope I didn't give that impression. I am merely giving my take. That's all. My right as a responder.

Best reagrds,
Ken W
 

willowfox

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What do I need to know about my relationship with him?

58.2 to 17

Hex 58.2 suggests that this will be a very unfulfilling relationship which is to be avoided because there is no depth here, no emotional content.

Hex 17 suggests that if you push the matter then you will have him resist your advances, you should seriously sit back and think about this situation very carefully before making any move.

"How does he feel about contacting me?

24.5 to 3

Hex 24.5 he feels that he is in the wrong about something from the past, so his head is full of excuses why he should not contact you.

Hex 3 he has many problems on his plate at he moment and does not wish to make contact with you, he is in the dark and struggling.

"Why hasn't he contacted me yet?

38.1.4.5 to 59

Hex 38.1,4,5 says that he feels very isolated but he feels that it is up to you to make contact with him, as he is not going to take the first step.

Hex 59 Again, he just does not feel like contacting you.
 

esolo

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First of all, I don't have any problem with MagicTortoise's advice. However, I myself haven't had a problem with 'why' questions. In fact, I think some of my clearest answers have come from 'why' questions.

Now, I'm not sure what to believe about 58.2. One person sees it as positve and one person sees it as negative. I read Bradford's commentary and then read Karcher's view and I'm still confused. It isn't true that there's no emotional content here. I think the problem is that there's too much emotional content. I think he is feeling guilty about something from the past and that this is hindering him. In fact, I asked what I can expect from him within the next 6 months and I got 47.4, he comes 'oppressed in a golden carriage'. I also asked what he wanted to happen between us and I got 12.5.6.
 

willowfox

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In fact, I asked what I can expect from him within the next 6 months and I got 47.4, he comes 'oppressed in a golden carriage'. I also asked what he wanted to happen between us and I got 12.5.6.



Hex 47.4 It seems that he did have the idea to contact you before but some problems have cropped up and he is tangled up with someone for the a while at least.

Hex 29 It appears that he has lots of problems that are keeping him occupied so I would not expect too much from him in the next 6 months.

Hex 12.5 perhaps he would like the relationship to get back on track but he is being overly cautious and fearful of making a mistake.

Hex 12.6 the separation that now divides you can be end if he really wants it to end, basically he needs to do something about the situation because it won't end by itself.

Hex 16 says that he needs the desire and enthusiasm to bring about a reconciliation , if he feels that you are the one for him then he must make the effort, if he does nothing then nothing will become of this affair.
 

mudpie

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I have been enjoying Ken's posts and have been thinking about his method of framing questions. In some ways, I like the direct approach he suggests. I happened to find an old journal of mine where I had recorded the answers to a lot of vague questions and, in retrospect, it might have all been more meaningful and helpful if I had been asking his kind of direct questions, rather than vague ones.

However...

In a recent post, someone asked about starting a relationship with a younger man and got 11.1 > 46. To me that seemed direct and the response seemed favorable. In a follow-up, Peace reported that it hadnt worked out, that they'd decided to be true to other commitments and not pursue relationship with each other. SO, I wonder how magictortoise would have interpreted that direct response.

TO me, the follow-up indicated that the Yi's response was an overview of the situation and not necessarly a direct response to a direct question. The question might well have been "what is the overview of this situation" and the yi was saying "YOu are connected at the job only, move on" altho if one had been looking at it in a YES?NO? way, one might have thought the YI was saying, "good connection, go for it"

MY POINT is that it seems that even if you frame direct questions, you still have to understand that the yi speaks in ways that need to be understood beyond just yes/no.
 
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