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what is it like in the spirit world?

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sparkler

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Hi all...today I asked the I Ching..."What is it like in the spirit world?"...this is particularly uppermost in my mind as I am coming up to the two year anniversary of the sudden loss of my partner in July...and am finding it very difficult. The answer i received was hexagram 47 lines 2 and 5 becoming hexagram 16...any thoughts on this?
Many thanks,sparkler:)
 
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bruce_g

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I don’t know what happens when people die
Can’t seem to grasp it as hard as I try
It’s like a song I can hear playing right in my ear
That I can’t sing
I can’t help listening

Jackson Browne
 
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bruce_g

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This song is, imo, so beautiful, I'm going to post the entire lyrics, in case some here haven't heard it.

Keep a fire burning in your eye
Pay attention to the open sky
You never know what will be coming down
I don’t remember losing track of you
You were always dancing in and out of view
I must have thought you’d always be around
Always keeping things real by playing the clown
Now you’re nowhere to be found

I don’t know what happens when people die
Can’t seem to grasp it as hard as I try
It’s like a song I can hear playing right in my ear
That I can’t sing
I can’t help listening
And I can’t help feeling stupid standing ’round
Crying as they ease you down
’cause I know that you’d rather we were dancing
Dancing our sorrow away
(right on dancing)
No matter what fate chooses to play
(there’s nothing you can do about it anyway)

Just do the steps that you’ve been shown
By everyone you’ve ever known
Until the dance becomes your very own
No matter how close to yours
Another’s steps have grown
In the end there is one dance you’ll do alone

Keep a fire for the human race
Let your prayers go drifting into space
You never know what will be coming down
Perhaps a better world is drawing near
And just as easily it could all disappear
Along with whatever meaning you might have found
Don’t let the uncertainty turn you around
(the world keeps turning around and around)
Go on and make a joyful sound

Into a dancer you have grown
From a seed somebody else has thrown
Go on ahead and throw some seeds of your own
And somewhere between the time you arrive
And the time you go
May lie a reason you were alive
But you’ll never know
 
Tohpol

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sparkler said:
Hi all...today I asked the I Ching..."What is it like in the spirit world?"...this is particularly uppermost in my mind as I am coming up to the two year anniversary of the sudden loss of my partner in July...and am finding it very difficult. The answer i received was hexagram 47 lines 2 and 5 becoming hexagram 16...any thoughts on this?
Many thanks,sparkler:)
Click to expand...


Sparkler, I'm sorry for your loss.

The IC seems to be addressing your sadness behind the question saying that despite most things going ok in your life, you are still understandably oppressed by this loss. 5 seems to suggest this deep sadness will pass however.

I guess your partner would be very happy to think you will continue to live life to the full in celebration of your time together as well as truly living your own path before you too depart.

16 seems to say live life for two!! I'm sure you will in time.

Topal
 
willowfox

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""What is it like in the spirit world?".The answer i received was hexagram 47 lines 2 and 5 becoming hexagram 16"

Well, for a start, the Ic is not answering your question about the 'spirit world', it is answering you about your daily life.

Hex 47.2 this line says that externally your everyday life is normal but internally you are feeling depressed. It says that it would be a great idea for you to immerse yourself in some outside activity.

Hex 47.5 people around you don't understand why you are still in mourning but don't worry about them because your mood will improve, just have to be patient and stick to what you believe in.

Hex 16 suggests that you get your head into some external activity that will not only keep you busy but that will require you to work together with others in an atmosphere of friendship and goodwill. So, think carefully about your situation and how you can get help from others, all sorts of opportunities are in front of you so reach out and take one.
 
willowfox

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bruce_g said:
How do you know?
Click to expand...

Because I am very sure that most of the spirits in the spirit world are not depressed and neither are they running around looking for something to take their minds off their depression. Otherwise everybody that is living would be harassed by ghosts 24/7.

Hex 16 is saying to get involved in something, so I presume that if I was a ghost then it would mean for me to get out there and haunt a bunch of people, perhaps?

Or do you know how her answer relates to spirits and their home world? I would love to hear your take on this.
 
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bruce_g

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willowfox said:
Because I am very sure that most of the spirits in the spirit world are not depressed and neither are they running around looking for something to take their minds off their depression. Otherwise everybody that is living would be harassed by ghosts 24/7.

Hex 16 is saying to get involved in something, so I presume that if I was a ghost then it would mean for me to get out there and haunt a bunch of people, perhaps?

Or do you know how her answer relates to spirits and their home world? I would love to hear your take on this.
Click to expand...

Thanks for answering.

My take leans toward yours, but without such certainty. The song lyrics I posted pretty much sums up how I see it. I just don't know what happens when people die. However, if the Tibetan Book of the Dead’s account is accurate, 47.2,5-16 could quite easily fit. Another possibly is that the “enclosed tree” of 47 represents a casket, or the exhaustion of the body, and 16 could represent the visionary phenomena, experienced after leaving the organism one has inhabited, again as referenced in the TBotD.
 
frank_r

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sparkler said:
Hi all...today I asked the I Ching..."What is it like in the spirit world?"...The answer i received was hexagram 47 lines 2 and 5 becoming hexagram 16...any thoughts on this?
:)
Click to expand...


Hallo Sparkler,

First sorry for you loss!

47 is one of the quantum hexagrams, and describes the path between trigram lake to trigram lake.
Although it stays the same trigram, it is changing energy, it's going to a next level, there will a new perspective of something. A new view on something old.
This change is happening in trigram lake, the trigram that stands in the west, the spot of sunset, death. At the same time lake has to do with our heart, the house where our spirit is staying.
So the spirit has changed to a new and deeper level, and with the changing lines 2 and 5 the central spots, the men spot of the trigram there will be a change in perception.
With 16 the Yi tell us in a humorous way there these is a lot going on, on that other side!
 
Tohpol

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willowfox said:
Because I am very sure that most of the spirits in the spirit world are not depressed and neither are they running around looking for something to take their minds off their depression. Otherwise everybody that is living would be harassed by ghosts 24/7.
Click to expand...

Those are some big assumptions there WF.

I think the The spirit world interacts with the "earthly world" in ways that we haven't a hope of understanding right now. But there is a vast amount of reputable world literature with compelling data that the various "levels" or realities intersect with our own world in fascinating ways.

But maybe that's for another thread ;)

Topal
 
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philippa

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Hi Sparkler,

I very much like Frank's and Bruce's take on the chaning lines. Here's my slightly different take on them: I see line 2 in relation to line 5. Line 2 seems to refer to people are living: we are "trapped" by our bodies. After all, we depend on (the vitality) of our bodies (cf. the text: oppressed by meat and drink). Line 5 seems to refer to the condition when the vitality has left our body.

As per Frank, 16 is a very interesting hexagram in this case. You have thunder upon a (receptive) earth. Both thunder and earth are obviously symbolic. I see earth as the whole universe (including the "space" that is beyond our perceptual and intellectual understanding) that allows all things (self-aware or not) to exist. Thunder seems to symbolically refer to this energy force ("spirits" in your words).

I hope these images are useful to you. The hexagrams seem to show that the universe is filled with life forces or energy or vitality (whichever you want to express this notion), whether they are within the bodies that we have or "out there" in the "universe".
 
soshin

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Jackson Browne, Late For The Sky

maiajay said:
Bruce_g,
Can you tell me the title of that song?
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Im not Bruce, but I did a little research... ;)

But I wont tell!

:rofl:
 
soshin

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Hi, sparker,

Im sorry for your loss.

I would second Jackson Browns lyrics and Bruces take on that.

Soshin
 
soshin

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Thanks for the song!

Hi, Bruce,

Im allright, thank you, have been well! :)

Thank you very much for that wonderful song.


Namaste,

Soshin
 
Trojina

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47 stresses the uselessness of words and speaking - I don't think we can understand easily in words how it is in the spirit world - but it is my perception theres not nearly as much distance between us and them as we think.

Noone but you can understand what your answer means - we can only make suggestions.
One thing that comes to my mind is that i understand how much the departed do wish to communicate that they are okay to their loved ones here - and the difficulty of communication ! 47 ?

Those with mediumistic abilities are pretty much deluged when they are open to receive, it seems the spirit world is pretty keen often to give a message. Of course there are charlatans but there are genuine mediums too. I was very impressed with some I saw after the death of my partner as they knew things about us no one could have done - since then I realise theres not this great wide gulf we think between us here and 'them' .
 
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mudpie

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trojan said:
47 stresses the uselessness of words and speaking - I don't think we can understand easily in words how it is in the spirit world - but it is my perception theres not nearly as much distance between us and them as we think.

Noone but you can understand what your answer means - we can only make suggestions.
One thing that comes to my mind is that i understand how much the departed do wish to communicate that they are okay to their loved ones here - and the difficulty of communication ! 47 ?

Those with mediumistic abilities are pretty much deluged when they are open to receive, it seems the spirit world is pretty keen often to give a message. Of course there are charlatans but there are genuine mediums too. I was very impressed with some I saw after the death of my partner as they knew things about us no one could have done - since then I realise theres not this great wide gulf we think between us here and 'them' .
Click to expand...

ahhh, perfect, yes! 16 is inspiration they are dying to give us,pardon the pun, but their words are not believed. be encouraged, sparkler. I always see the visual image of a parade when I see 16.........lotsa horns and trumpets and lotsa youthful happy spirits riding on elephants (maybe trying to get our attention.........24/7!) There IS Life after 24.6, Hollis my dear.
 
mudpie

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BTW Bruce, your reply to willowfox's thoughts was brilliant. quite succinct...the visionary phenomenon after exhaustion of the physical vehicle.

wow, it is almost as if the Yi is speaking of the actual transition. losing the orientation of the 5 senses and the limbs for mobility,nose and feet cut off, the coming of the crimson sashes (ancestors perhaps), ceremonial offerings, and slowly the joy of a new awakening comes
 
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bruce_g

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Further, if it was possible to know (proof, not just circumstantial evidence or belief), would we be better off knowing? I think not knowing gives something important, possibly something essential.
 
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bruce_g

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listener said:
BTW Bruce, your reply to willowfox's thoughts was brilliant. quite succinct...the visionary phenomenon after exhaustion of the physical vehicle.

wow, it is almost as if the Yi is speaking of the actual transition. losing the orientation of the 5 senses and the limbs for mobility,nose and feet cut off, the coming of the crimson sashes (ancestors perhaps), ceremonial offerings, and slowly the joy of a new awakening comes
Click to expand...

Thanks.

I don't mean to harp on the TBD, but I found it a fascinating read. Read it a long time ago, and still occasionally buff up on it. Of all afterlife experiences reported, the TBD makes the most sense to me. Of course the images which appear to today's traveler wouldn't look like the deities/apparitions of that time and culture; they'd appear according to our current mythological images, but they'd represent the same ideas of wrath and benevolence, and they'd evoke the same 16-ish emotions of fear and love. But appearances are deceiving, and the traveler must see through all of these appearances, in order to transcend temporal existence. According to the Book, of course ;).
 
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bruce_g

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When my Dad passed on a few years ago, he came to me in dreams. One thing which struck me about him, besides that he looked as he did when in his prime of 35, was his excitement. That wasn't like him to be so excited, but he was like a kid in ways. Very 16. Do you know what he was most excited about? That he had his full head of jet black hair back, lol. Go figure.

I have beliefs. I've been playing the death scenario out in my head since I was a little kid, just as many here probably have. I just have no idea if my beliefs are correct or not.
 
mudpie

mudpie

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My dad also came to me in dreams...and looked radiantly young. In one dream, I was confounded and I said to him: "But Dad, I thought you were dead?" and he said to me, "Noooo! I've been here all along."
In another dream, he gave me the keys to a white Mercedes! In real life, he once gave me the keys to a really cool yellow Barracuda (chrysler) which I promptly wrecked. BUt in the spirit world, he upgraded the gift. I guess he was forgiving me :)
 
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