silly question to post ?

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so, what is that " I ching" thing about ?

Don't give me links to go and read. explain me please.

Supose I 'm a 5-year-old girl and I ask you "what is the IC" ?

Can somebody explain me ?

maria

Hi Maria,

Are you looking for a historical account or what we make of it?


L

Would a five-year-old be looking for a historical account?

lightangel said:

Would a five-year-old be looking for a historical account?

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Actually, when I was five, yes I would... But everybody knows I'm a tad weird...

If it isn't a historical account, then we enter into a swamp of opinions that not even a clueless to the Yi, with a hundred years on his back, would be able to untangle... I'm not sure what the Yi is either...

L

It's an old Chinese book, kid. Now go outside and play.

getojack said:

It's an old Chinese book, kid. Now go outside and play.

Click to expand...

That was pure Zen... LOL :bows:

L

maremaria said:

silly question to post ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so, what is that " I ching" thing about ?

Don't give me links to go and read. explain me please.

Click to expand...

An old chinese way to see what was always there

or

an old chinese way for making sure you know what you are entering into and let you make it anyway but convinced that you know what you are doing

maremaria said:

Supose I 'm a 5-year-old girl and I ask you "what is the IC" ?

Can somebody explain me ?

maria

Click to expand...

Is a book which tells you when you must cry loud or just put adorable faces depending what you want mommy and daddy make for you under your total control ?

maremaria said:

silly question to post ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so, what is that " I ching" thing about ?

Can somebody explain me ?

maria

Click to expand...

OK , in a more serious try...

An old chinese book which helps you to understand situations which have happened, are happening or may happen and their meaning in your life and the lives of others.

It assumes that all is connected in such way that if you toss or cast a group of objects or let any group of objects move at free will, they will organize themselves in a particular way or agrupation which will reflect the situation you are thinking about or connected with.

After study and comparison there were compiled a quantity of agrupations (hexagrams) which use to appear related with specific situations and cover most possible situations.

It is essentially a manual of reference

Well. this is my best explanation to a child of maybe 10 years old, I don't think I manage to a 5 years old though :bows:

You can ask it questions and when you do an angel will answer them.


May I ask a question daddy? pleeaaase?

The I Ching? Hey, sweetheart, it's a very old book that helps you slow down and think about things in a way that helps you understand things better. It's for grownups, not for kids. Like sex and wine and stuff like that. Now go play.

Hi to all of you.

Acctually this post was the last one in "forum rules ? " thread just before hilary close it.
I should explain it from the begining.
of course is a shilly, stupid question to ask or maybe not.

Dobro you said "It's for grownups, not for kids" hmmm I don't know.
sometimes kids give leassons to grownups and sometimes grownups act like kids
. I have two kids in my family (my brother's kids) and I admit that sometimes they teach me or remind me things that I have forgot.
Sometimes their wisdom amaze me.

Maria

I think it's an excellent question - look at the lovely answers you have. The Dazhuan would tell you it's not like having a teacher or a guide, it's like having your parents draw near. When I was 5 that would have put me right off the whole thing.

We're touching on another issue here I was meaning to blog about sometime. Is divination for children? If not, why not? I have a feeling that it isn't, but I'm not sure why.

hilary said:

I think it's an excellent question - look at the lovely answers you have. The Dazhuan would tell you it's not like having a teacher or a guide, it's like having your parents draw near. When I was 5 that would have put me right off the whole thing.

We're touching on another issue here I was meaning to blog about sometime. Is divination for children? If not, why not? I have a feeling that it isn't, but I'm not sure why.

Click to expand...

I feel that the world of children is not (usually) lead by intention (there is where I want to arrive) but by emotion (that is what I want to feel) neither is the world of children about the future (beyond the immediate one) therefore divination will be useless to them (mostly)

Adults (usually) hold to hopes and expectations, children hold to extend the moment and to create new ones on the go...

My thoughts...:bows:

laureet said:

I feel that the world of children is not (usually) lead by intention (there is where I want to arrive) but by emotion (that is what I want to feel) neither is the world of children about the future (beyond the immediate one) therefore divination will be useless to them (mostly)

Adults (usually) hold to hopes and expectations, children hold to extend the moment and to create new ones on the go...

My thoughts...:bows:

Click to expand...

Good thoughts, enjoyed them. But I think that depends on the individual child. I would have been much more interested in the IC at 5 than the stuff they taught in kindergarten or first grade, or the things my parents thought were so important. Perhaps the interest wouldn't be in the book, but if someone told stories from IC teachings, it would hold the attention of many kids, maybe even most kids. Delivery is the hard part.

I started a project once, I Ching for kids, but didn't get far with it. Adults have a way of making everything too complicated.

bruce_g said:

Adults have a way of making everything too complicated.

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hi,

agree, thats why sometimes we cannot see the obvious .
"the king is naked !!!"

maria

maremaria said:

hi,

agree, thats why sometimes we cannot see the obvious .
"the king is naked !!!"

maria

Click to expand...

There ya go. Great example of 23?

Grimm's fairy tales plus so many others teach the same lessons. According to the Yi, there's only 64 stories to tell, with the lines making the particular dynamics of the story line. How complicated can that be?

bruce_g said:

There ya go. Great example of 23?

Grimm's fairy tales plus so many others teach the same lessons. According to the Yi, there's only 64 stories to tell, with the lines making the particular dynamics of the story line. How complicated can that be?

Click to expand...

For me as everybody may have notice is not complicate at all !!! just joking here

English lesson bruce : What does "There ya go." means ? I google but i did't find an answer. So if you can ?

Maria, there ya (you) go is like "there it is!"

maremaria said:

English lesson bruce : What does "There ya go." means ? I google but i did't find an answer. So if you can ?

Click to expand...

Try this page: http://www.answers.com/topic/there and look for "there you go" under "Translations".

maremaria said:

For me as everybody may have notice is not complicate at all !!! just joking here

English lesson bruce : What does "There ya go." means ? I google but i did't find an answer. So if you can ?

Click to expand...

I suppose it would be: "aquí tienes!" or "¡ya está!" French is a language I'm more familiar with so guess it would be "Et voilà !" (ah...didn't see the above - crossed posts)


On the subject of I Ching for kids, what a great idea. I think Bruce's thoughts that it could be a broad based simplification of the themes is excellent. Even the Hex lines could illustrate a particular story as beginning, middle and end. Divination at that age I think wouldn't work as has been stated due to developmental stages of the child, but the motifs and archetypal messages within the IC certainly could be workable.

Topal

hI,
Thank you all for the english lesson !!!!

getojack : very useful link !! i think i am going to use it a lot !!!!!
topal : agreed. Image works sometimes better than words !!

Bruce : I wonder if you could tell us more about this project ( IC for kids)

to everyone in this thread :
thanks for your replies. !

maria

Hi Maria,

It didn't get very far before I realized that I'd have to make up stories. But Yi is what inspires stories, not the stories themselves. If I went in the other direction it would be too philosophical, and that would miss the mark of teaching kids the essence of Yi. So, I concluded, best to let kids be kids and teach us adults a few things.

Instead of us deciding whether or not to let a child learn divining, I think it would be far more appropriate to let the child decide without our interference. As far as I am concerned, the earlier people start learning how to divine, the better. With a five-year-old, however, it is not likely that he or she is going to know how to read. So, for practical reasons, one might have to wait until the child is a tad older.

Perhaps you could tell your hypothetical five-year-old that the I Ching is a form of divining that many people feel gives more comprehensive and detailed divinatory answers than other oracles are capable of.

Next, your five-year-old will probably ask you what divining means.

Most dictionaries I have consulted define divining as a methodology used for looking into the future. This definition falls way short of the mark, however. Divining can also be used to look into the past, and to look more deeply into the present. Divining is also frequently used to obtain guidance.

Scholars divide divining into two main categories. There is ecstatic divining and inductive divining. Ecstatic divining is done by shamans when they interact with entities from the Otherworld. Native American Indians also excelled at ecstatic divining which they accomplished through their visions. They used sweat lodges and other means to effect visions that informed them of what they wanted to know about their past, present, and future, and through those visions they were also given timely guidances that told them how to lead happier, more productive lives.

Inductive divining includes everything else.

There are two kinds of inductive divining: spontaneous, and deliberate. Spontaneous divining refers to making divinatory interpretations of naturally occuring phenomena, such as the flight of birds or cloud formations.

Deliberate inductive divining involves the interpretation of either spiritual or physical phenomena that has been purposefully brought into being by someone, usually the diviner.

Interpreting spiritual phenomena would include scrying (crystal ball gazing), interpreting dreams, and interpreting omens. In this category, the phenomenon being interpreted has been spiritually activated into existence.

Physical phenomona would include interpreting dice, marked stones, marked staves, seashells, coins, or other physical items that have been cast for divinatory purposes. This is also known as the casting of "lots," the word "lots" referring to the physical item being used. Physically activated inductive divining also includes interpreting tarot and playing cards that have been shuffled and dealt for divinatory purposes. Divining with the I Ching is another example of physically activated inductive divining.

Jim

Explaining a very difficult-to-explain thing to a kid can cause an insight which colors its world in a very special way. When I was about 7 I asked my mother why my friend got no little brothers like I did. Her father was away (everybody said "on the other side of the world", but actually he was in jail).

So my mother said, when a man and a woman, who loved each other, were very close together, a child grew in the woman. That made a lot of sense to me, and at the same time it gave me a beautiful feeling of what love was. Something so miraculous and strong that it could make 'real' things happen without having to touch or act. The power of the heart was obviously very big.

Later I knew what that 'close together' really meant, but the feeling of love stayed the way it was. And I am still grateful that the first time I was told about it, was so beautiful.

She said nothing which was not exactly right. But she gave me enough room to turn it into an insight I could grasp at that age. It was vague, if she had tried to explain more, she would have missed the mark. So I think explaining divination or the Yi should also be according to the truth, and yet vague.

I like Martin's answer.

LiSe

The information I provided above was for anyone interested. I think most of those who frequent this website are at the age where they would appreciate a little adult reality.

Jim

On second thoughts, I can imagine spending time with a five year old in divination - though we'd call it looking for pictures in the clouds, or 'What did you dream last night?' And perhaps we might find we saw tigers in the clouds and the dreams, and that today was a good day to be a tiger.

In other words, it's natural to live with images that present themselves, but I can't imagine - when I was 5 - wanting to form questions for an oracle. Laureet mentioned intention versus emotion, and there's also choice - not something you get much of as a child.

All very theoretical. Has anyone ever actually tried to interest a small child in divination?