3 to 61

hollis · Oct 15, 2007

Hi guys. Please help. I thought I should break apart with my :hug:

for a little while because he is good, and I am corrupt, consequently embarrassed. I thought I'll break apart for a while and then when I am better, get together. For council on this idea, I consulted , and got hexagram 3, lines 2 and 6, to 61. I got it twice, once a couple months ago, and now again. I thought i was being a little noble , this kind of idea, but the oracle does not seem to reflect this. I feel it reflects that this kind of attitude is

. dead end :brickwall:

That thinking like this, line 2, gets no fruit, and line 6, an endless bloody stalemate. That's what I am getting, if you have any different ideas, would :bows: to read them. thank you very much.

Trojina · Oct 15, 2007

"he is good and I am corrupt"

its hard to understand what you mean by that, seeing it this way could be the problem. How you mean this seems central to how one sees the answer to me. If you have been looking to him for help the line 2 suggests it is a good idea not to take it from him even if this makes you unhappy, line 6 and this decision seems to come from a sincere place, 61... but thats just an idea and anyway I'm sure you are not corrupt

and are just as 'good' as him ?

Tohpol · Oct 15, 2007

hollis said:
Hi guys. Please help. I thought I should break apart with my for a little while because he is good, and I am corrupt, consequently embarrassed. I thought I'll break apart for a while and then when I am better, get together. For council on this idea, I consulted , and got hexagram 3, lines 2 and 6, to 61. I got it twice, once a couple months ago, and now again. I thought i was being a little noble , this kind of idea, but the oracle does not seem to reflect this. I feel it reflects that this kind of attitude is . dead end That thinking like this, line 2, gets no fruit, and line 6, an endless bloody stalemate. That's what I am getting, if you have any different ideas, would :bows: to read them. thank you very much.

Hi Hollis,

Yes, you are a wicked woman - corrupt, bad and vewy, vewy naughty.

Sure you can fill your head with all kinds of noble aspirations. You can even go and wear horse hair pyjamas and sleep on a bad of nails if it will make you feel better...The truth is Hollis, while you haven't given many details, it's clear you need to get rid of what you ought to do and should do - forget all the programming and what others tell you. What is it you want? Deep down. Some choices are there.

Of course, the IC won't reflect your ideas of "Nobleness" and martyrdom if they are based on erroneous associations.

Line 2: Seems to confirm this and is saying don't go adding to the problem with ill thought out reasoning and spurious notions but try to address the core issue. Above all, don't run a "program" of "I'm not worthy" and "I'm not good enough" but be patient and see it through.

Line 6: Does seem like a period of change is on the way. But you have to allow it to happen. Otherwise stalemate can only be the inevitable result. This could underscore the idea that you are heavily invested in the idea of success or failure. If you fail it's the end of the world. If you succeed then you're not worth it...

This can all be worked out is the message that's coming through here I think, butcha gotta work at it.

Take care, and hang in there!

Topal

hollis · Oct 15, 2007

topal said:
Hi Hollis,

Yes, you are a wicked woman - corrupt, bad and vewy, vewy naughty.

somehow I like the sound of that. Lots to think about here, will be back to you, Trojan and Topal, in a few. Thank you very much, indeed.

auriel · Oct 16, 2007

wait a minute.
breaking up is noble. a test/ a purification -line2
forcing one's self to see the the real need for another and separation as hell, to feel that for one moment in your bones- but not to persist in it -line6
then a real union can be forged based on inner truth -61

its difficult to begin anything real and lasting.

corrupt is to avoid the pain, corrupt is to avoid the purification
when one wants to achieve an enduring relationship one shouldn't try to achieve it by comfortable half measures
see:
http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Fleetwood-Mac/Book-Of-Love.html

hollis · Oct 16, 2007

trojan said:
"he is good and I am corrupt" its hard to understand what you mean by that, seeing it this way could be the problem. How you mean this seems central to how one sees the answer to me.

yes, what i meant, is that, he is always alert and bright and kind, and i have struggles. doubts anger fear suspicions etc.

trojan said:
If you have been looking to him for help the line 2 suggests it is a good idea not to take it from him even if this makes you unhappy, line 6 and this decision seems to come from a sincere place, 61...

guess it would make me unhappy to not take help from him. thank you trojan. but what decision comes from a sincere place, to break apart? so you would say, in the context of the question at face value, that indeed, it is a sincere thought? or perhaps, that there is validity to it? thank you.

hollis · Oct 16, 2007

topal said:
Hi Hollis,

Of course, the IC won't reflect your ideas of "Nobleness" and martyrdom if they are based on erroneous associations.

going to tatoo that, right into the yellow cover of wilhelm.

topal said:
try to address the core issue. Above all, don't run a "program" of "I'm not worthy" and "I'm not good enough" but be patient and see it through.

ok. breathe. love. compassion. breathe. take a walk. be a tree. with feet. and moveable legs.

topal said:
This could underscore the idea that you are heavily invested in the idea of success or failure. If you fail it's the end of the world. If you succeed then you're not worth it...

another driving force of erroneous perception, thanks so much for this topal.

hollis · Oct 16, 2007

auriel said:
wait a minute.
breaking up is noble. a test/ a purification -line2
forcing one's self to see the the real need for another and separation as hell, to feel that for one moment in your bones- but not to persist in it -line6
then a real union can be forged based on inner truth -61

its difficult to begin anything real and lasting.

corrupt is to avoid the pain, corrupt is to avoid the purification
when one wants to achieve an enduring relationship one shouldn't try to achieve it by comfortable half measures

thanks so much for getting inside the stoicism on this auriel. i love your posts on clarity. feel lucky you came by to post on this one, bitter as it is. and love questions are a dime a dozen, but you always bring something precious to the table.

Trojina · Oct 16, 2007

hollis said:
hollis said:

yes, what i meant, is that, he is always alert and bright and kind, and i have struggles. doubts anger fear suspicions etc.

Click to expand...

That sounds very familiar to me, I've been there too. Ever entertained the possibility that he is able to alert ,bright and kind because you are are doubtful, angry and suspicious. That sounds weird I know but I have found when I have deliberately corrected these faults in myself the relationship crumbles hmmm. I don't think its anything at a conscious level but it seems to me sometimes one person carries all the doubt and stuff and this can make the other feel very secure - I mean they're not to leave if they are very entrenched in these emotions, it means they are very engaged.

guess it would make me unhappy to not take help from him. thank you trojan. but what decision comes from a sincere place, to break apart? so you would say, in the context of the question at face value, that indeed, it is a sincere thought? or perhaps, that there is validity to it? thank you

Well yes I think it seems sincere. This dynamic of you feeling all darkness and anger while he is the angel gabriel

isn't good for you and I really do recognise it as a pretty familiar insiduous relationship pattern. Not that its his fault, or yours, more like something thats cropped up between you. If he is acting as your helper or the healthy one in the relationship, that feeds him immensely but isn't good for you.
In this case I can see why you get line 2. This help you think he gives you you may be better off without for now - this doesn't mean totally ending it of course.

Of course I don't know all the circumstances and I wouldn't wish to encourage you to leave especially if it will make you unhappy, or stay thats your decision, just giving my perspective from what i see.

Hmm and maybe stand back with a cynical eye aswell (me not the Yi :mischief:

) are you really the baddie here ? What payoffs are there for that for him ?

auriel · Oct 16, 2007

hollis said:
feel lucky you came by to post on this one, bitter as it is.

thanks. . .for the thanks. just seconds after i wrote that i opened my e-mail, totally unprepared, to a dear auriel letter

enormous synchronicity. . . . threw the coins to 3.4. doesn't help much. but a little. . . are there any explicit actions implicit in that line I wonder. gee. but there doesnt seem to be any avenue at all for action. i feel like tearing up my vow of poverty. or should i burn it?

anyway don't be cruel

Tohpol · Oct 16, 2007

trojan said:
That sounds very familiar to me, I've been there too. Ever entertained the possibility that he is able to alert ,bright and kind because you are are doubtful, angry and suspicious.

Well yes I think it seems sincere. This dynamic of you feeling all darkness and anger while he is the angel gabriel isn't good for you and I really do recognise it as a pretty familiar insiduous relationship pattern. Not that its his fault, or yours, more like something thats cropped up between you. If he is acting as your helper or the healthy one in the relationship, that feeds him immensely but isn't good for you.
In this case I can see why you get line 2. This help you think he gives you you may be better off without for now - this doesn't mean totally ending it of course.

Yes. In some ways you could say that notions of who is the bad guy or gal here don't really apply, rather what kind of energy dynamic is operating?

I just want to say that the above is excellent advise about an issue that is often characterised by co-dependency, or in Jungian terms, the vampire archetype which we ALL embody at various points in our lives. When you see it often enough then that particular pattern can change.

Again, we do not have the benefit of having a full picture so obviously the disclaimer applies here. However,I have seen this again and again in my own life and others.

This line is important when you start to see things purely in terms of energy: "That feeds him immensely but isn't good for you." It is actually quite useful to think of it in these terms. Both of you - all of us - are seeking energy when our own resources, our own "Well" is not stable, or clear or we are unable to access it. Then imbalances occur and we end up literally feeing off others. You and he, in this particular "dance" may well be giving each other the fix each needs, but for entirely the wrong reasons.

As Trojan mentions, that doesn't mean you should split or that you should run screaming in the other direction nor does it preclude such an eventuality. It is all about SEEING things as they really are within a relationship in order to salvage it, or yes, in order to grow and change to something else. Once you see it and know it then you can decide how you want to proceed. Seeing it fully seems to be the first step.

Topal

hollis · Oct 17, 2007

Hi Trojan and Topal. It's perhaps impossible to get a clear divination when one has run ahead of the day with erroneous associations. I dont think any of those dynamics you have mentioned above are playing out here, really, but I am concerned that I cant, for some reason, be happy in a relationship. Is this the result of selfishness that has set in from being wounded in the past? Could be. In which case, I would be replaying an old scenario that, if I can, I would really like to put down for good. Just the same, I will take a little note, and chalk this up as a warning.

He makes me laugh, even about all this stuff. It seems impossible to break apart from him, because he has such a good sense of humor. sigh.:bag:

thank you, very much for listening and coming up with such insightful , er, insights, . :hug:

but I feel kind of crummy that he has come up in a bad light! Because of me! See!The corrupt one!

Auriel, hex 3 line 4, isnt that rather a good omen? The most favorable line in the gram! Hope it isnt being ironic. :mischief:

mudpie · Oct 17, 2007

Hollis, hexagram 3, methinks, screams for you to see it through. Esp line 2 and 6. MOst especially 6.
from the sounds of it, you have a relationship in which your partner is providing a clear pool in which to see the things in yourself that are holding you back from what you want....presumably the love relationship.

Sure, we are all selfish and wounded. That is no reason not to go deeper. Because ultimately, one is never really selfish, but self-ish....now you are fully arrayed to go forward and meet this darkness of little self and find the larger you, the beloved you, the most precious being. Leaving him behind leaves you right where you are, crying tears of blood.

The journey is within and the goal is JOY. Laughter is a river that takes you there....and he has a sense of humor. what more could you need. Ride on his river. Take the reigns of the horse and plunge forward into those doubts, suspicions and fears. Hexagram 6 asks " and what would you be waiting for?"

hollis · Oct 17, 2007

Thank you so much for your interpretation Listener. You have turned the images around in my head, "screams for you to see it through. Esp line 2 and 6. MOst especially 6." this feels quite right.:bows:

Trojina · Oct 17, 2007

hollis said:
I am concerned that I cant, for some reason, be happy in a relationship. Is this the result of selfishness that has set in from being wounded in the past? Could be.
QUOTE]

I think its perfectly okay not to be able to be in a relationship especially if you are trying to forge a better relationship with the self. I think its essential to be alone sometimes, really crucial, so its not selfishness as a negative thing but perhaps just the self asking to know itself first, better than it knows others. I think the self can yearn and hunger for its self as much as it can for another, but we are encouraged strongly never to give it any time. Infact its almost like its considered a dangerous act, to be happy alone, to prioritise your knowledge of self above others. I think if one has difficulty keeping a realtionship its because one is hungering for a good relationship with the self.

Love yourself first Hollis - repeat after me "I am not corrupt" BTW you didnt paint him in a bad light at all I was only speculating about what may be happening - just energy dynamics between people like Topal said .

my_key · Oct 17, 2007

Hi Hollis
3 Sprouting gives Hidden possibility - 23 Stripping
It sounds like some of the pain you are going through here is going to allow new ideas to develop giving you new ways of approaching relationships.
What you are feeling and experiencing is all part of the process of personal growth. Stay positive and all will come good in the end.

Love and Hugs

mike

hollis · Oct 17, 2007

trojan said:
repeat after me "I am not corrupt"

I am not corrupt.

hollis · Oct 17, 2007

my_key said:
Stay positive and all will come good in the end.

Love and Hugs

mike

I'll give it a try, as my tendancy to negativity has been honed to perfection!

Thanks for the love and hugs mike. :hug:

hollis · Oct 20, 2007

listener said:
Hollis, hexagram 3, methinks, screams for you to see it through. Esp line 2 and 6. MOst especially 6.
from the sounds of it, you have a relationship in which your partner is providing a clear pool in which to see the things in yourself that are holding you back from what you want....presumably the love relationship.

Sure, we are all selfish and wounded. That is no reason not to go deeper. Because ultimately, one is never really selfish, but self-ish....now you are fully arrayed to go forward and meet this darkness of little self and find the larger you, the beloved you, the most precious being. Leaving him behind leaves you right where you are, crying tears of blood.

The journey is within and the goal is JOY. Laughter is a river that takes you there....and he has a sense of humor. what more could you need. Ride on his river. Take the reigns of the horse and plunge forward into those doubts, suspicions and fears. Hexagram 6 asks " and what would you be waiting for?"

This is so beautiful Listener. :bows:

hollis · Oct 20, 2007

trojan;59929I said:
think its perfectly okay not to be able to be in a relationship especially if you are trying to forge a better relationship with the self. I think its essential to be alone sometimes, really crucial, so its not selfishness as a negative thing but perhaps just the self asking to know itself first, better than it knows others. I think the self can yearn and hunger for its self as much as it can for another, but we are encouraged strongly never to give it any time. Infact its almost like its considered a dangerous act, to be happy alone, to prioritise your knowledge of self above others. I think if one has difficulty keeping a realtionship its because one is hungering for a good relationship with the self.

How wise Trojan. Yes women are never encouraged to be happy alone. I was speaking with a scholar the other day, and she told me that at one time, a woman could walk , alone, on pilgrimmage, from Afganistan to Varanasi and not be molested or bothered. To me, this would be the ideal pilgrimmage. Thanks for all your help, Trojan, and everyone, thanks for listening :hug:

things look good right now, and I am indeed walking out of the spell that I am corrupt.:bows:

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