hexagram 50 no change

skipper · Nov 2, 2007

Hello,

I asked the Y this question: If my friend (someone I have known for a long time, and normally I would not take this approach to a relationship, but this has been complex) and I were to have sex, how would he feel about that?

The answer was #50, no change.

Any insights?

dobro p · Nov 3, 2007

He would feel that the relationship had transformed significantly.

willowfox · Nov 3, 2007

Make his day, he would feel quite happy with what you had given him, a man satisfied.

skipper · Nov 4, 2007

How would the relationship be transformed?

I asked how would the relationship be transformed? The answer was 52 no change. Does that mean it would end?

martin · Nov 4, 2007

Umm, I'm not sure about hex 50. It's not a sexual hexagram, although it doesn't exclude sex and sex can be a transformative agent.
But my hunch is that the Yi is saying that this is primarily a relationship on the level of the psyche. That is something you already know, I guess.
Hexagram 52, meditation? Going beyond, 'higher'?

Sex may be okay, I think, if it's embedded in a inner and wider, 'higher' perspective. Tantric sex?

Just my hunches, of course.

dobro p · Nov 4, 2007

Martin, *any* hexagram can be about sex. Even 33 lol.

Think about your first real and good sexual relationship with somebody. It was transformative, no? It was for me, anyway. I was a different person afterward.

I don't think it has to be the first time to be transformative either. It just has to be the right time. And if you're a woman, a sexual relationship can be pretty transformative if you get pregnant too (vessel of transformation and all that). Lots of possibilities.

martin · Nov 4, 2007

dobro said:
Martin, *any* hexagram can be about sex. Even 33 lol.

Think about your first real and good sexual relationship with somebody. It was transformative, no? It was for me, anyway. I was a different person afterward.

I was too.

I agree that 50 - like any other hexagram - can be about sex, and as I said "it doesn't exclude sex and sex can be a transformative agent".
But I associate 50 first of all with psyche, soul, an inner quality, something like that. It includes sex, but it isn't raw sex, sex because of the sex.
Well, our first real and good sexual relationship wouldn't have been as transformative if it had only been that.

That's why I wrote that sex is okay "if it's embedded in a inner and wider, 'higher' perspective."
Also because hex 52 seems to point in the same direction, and the combination of sex and 52 could well hint at 'meditative' or 'tantric' sex, I think.

Does that make it clearer?
Again, it's just my hunch.

willowfox · Nov 5, 2007

skipper said:
I asked how would the relationship be transformed? The answer was 52 no change. Does that mean it would end?

The striving and agitation would come to an end, you would both find peace and contentment. The relationship would go to a deeper level.

Trojina · Nov 5, 2007

I'm doubting the validity of answers to this kind of question. Think about the unknown variables with questions like 'If he had sex with me how would he feel after ?'. I mean i think it would depend on a lot of things none of which can't be known beforehand . What you really want to know here is whether its a good idea for you to have sex with him so why not ask about you. So you get 50 and people say its transforming and that then leads you to say 'how will it be transformed'

: See this is the line of thinking that that leads people into delusion, thinking big transformations are on their way and its all very big and of great import and stars will explode its all so misleading IMO. You may just as well ask 'if jim eats fish next friday how will he feel about that' and in answer to that I can see 50 would fit as well as any - he'll enjoy the dish which will fill him up and by transforming enrich his body - or you could start to think the fish will embark him on a journey of spiritual transformation if you don't remember to scale your answer to the size of the question.

If the Yi answered your question I think it just said something like 'hes full' or the sex leaves him satisfied - what else could it say ?

And 52 who knows but this line of questioning seems well set for the path to confusion and delusion if you ask me.

Ask about what you need to know and do in this situation. Second guessing others just isn't the best use of the Yi IMO.

Trojina · Nov 5, 2007

willowfox said:
Make his day, he would feel quite happy with what you had given him, a man satisfied.

IOW if you go further than this in your thinking of the import of this hypothetical event you get lost IMO, which is probably what 52 is saying to you, as 52 does say to be present in the now.

martin · Nov 5, 2007

It may already go too far to interpret 50 as meaning that he will be happy and satisfied.
My hunch was that the Yi didn't answer the question directly but said something like 'hexagram 50 applies here, think about that hexagram, it may help you to understand this better'.
And then the same with hexagram 52.

I don't know why I had that hunch (well, hunches are not rational

) but in general, if you receive an unchanging hexagram - two in this case - there is a fair chance that it is not a direct answer, I think.

And the answer may not be direct even if there are changing lines.
It amazes me sometimes that people who believe that the Yi connects them to a wise guide and teacher yet continue to treat this guide as if he or she is a robot that automatically answers their questions when they push the button.
Would you expect this of a human teacher or a wise friend?

Student: "I have huge problems. My house burnt down, I lost my job and my wife has an affair .."
Teacher: "Nice weather today, isn't it? A bit chilly but at least we have sun."

maremaria · Nov 5, 2007

martin said:
....
But my hunch is that the Yi is saying that this is primarily a relationship on the level of the psyche. .

Hi Martin,
Do you mean something like Jung said ' the meeting of two personalities ,is like the contact of two chemical substances . If there is any reaction, both are transformed" ?

Since 50 Is about the vessel and impliess sacrifice can we say that the two people like the chemical substances, are coming together and they been transformed ?

Had this thougth in my 50 notes but still not sure about the relevance with 50. My questions had nothing to do with a relationship of any kind , mostly about myself.

Maria

Trojina · Nov 5, 2007

martin said:
It amazes me sometimes that people who believe that the Yi connects them to a wise guide and teacher yet continue to treat this guide as if he or she is a robot that automatically answers their questions when they push the button.
Would you expect this of a human teacher or a wise friend?

Student: "I have huge problems. My house burnt down, I lost my job and my wife has an affair .."
Teacher: "Nice weather today, isn't it? A bit chilly but at least we have sun."

Your example doesn't seem to illustrate the point you are trying to make ? You mean you think the Yi wasn't answering how this man might feel after he had sex with her but a more general question about the relationship ?

So what, she still goes on to ask 'how will this be transforming' without knowing it will be except for what someone told her.

I can't see how my making the points i did mean I think the Yi is like a robot - (if you were adressing the comment to me that is )

People seem to treat it like a private spyware robot yes - but thats their problem i suppose

Trojina · Nov 5, 2007

I'm just looking at the line of questioning from Skipper and relating it to how sometimes people come here saying "the Yi promised me I'd marry this man and its promised me this for a year and he hasn't called for 9 months but the Yi still promises me he will marry me, how can this be ?" I've thought about that a great deal - how does this happen ? - and I do believe it may happen by people following trains of thought like Skipper. ie someone says if this guy has sex with her he will find it transforming - okay he may do, but then Skipper just takes that idea and runs with it asking 'how will it be transforming' What I'm on about here is not that anyone shares their idea about this being transforming, but that Skipper just picks up that idea as if it were a fact and asks another question on the basis of believing this 'transforming' idea were an actual fact. All I'm saying is I think this is how these trails of delusion form with regard to relationships - especially ones that aren't actual at the time.

This isn't personal to Skipper here, more of a general point that I see might be happening here. I guess its off topic but i find it frustrating to watch it in progress .

How is the querant, here Skipper, responding to the answers given here ? - seems to me with little thought, just firing off the next question. What I'm saying is making the next question up on the basis of the answer to last one when you haven't given it much thought, just believed a certain commentary or comment here could easily lead you down a trail of questions all based on a false idea. Here that false idea might be that sex would be transforming, it may be it may be not. Theres nothing wrong with people suggesting it may be, but I wish querants would be more aware of the dangers of following series of false assumptions about answers. It can lead to misery like "the yi said he'd marry me and he hasn't :hissy:

and all that for example that people are always doing around here

martin · Nov 5, 2007

trojan said:
So what, she still goes on to ask 'how will this be transforming' without knowing it will be except for what someone told her.

I can't see how my making the points i did mean I think the Yi is like a robot - (if you were adressing the comment to me that is )

It wasn't about your points, Trojan. I agree with them, because I also had the impression that the Yi perhaps didn't say that sex would be transforming.
And if it didn't say that the follow up question, based on the assumption that the Yi did say it, could lead to more confusion.

The teacher-student example that I gave was meant to illustrate that teachers (but not only teachers, friends too) don't always give direct answers. The Yi behaves the same, I think, sometimes the answers are direct, sometimes they aren't. So we have to be careful and not jump to conclusions ("the Yi said that I will get rich soon").

I should add that I don't want to criticize anyone here, btw, I also jump to conclusions sometimes.

martin · Nov 5, 2007

maremaria said:
Hi Martin,
Do you mean something like Jung said ' the meeting of two personalities ,is like the contact of two chemical substances . If there is any reaction, both are transformed" ?

Since 50 Is about the vessel and impliess sacrifice can we say that the two people like the chemical substances, are coming together and they been transformed ?

Yes, something like that. A chemical or alchemical process. Perhaps male and female elements mixing and integrating. On a physical/sexual level or on other levels (soul, psyche) or both.
It can happen in a relationship but also when we are alone, because we all have these elements or substances inside. And our inner alchemy can produce new inner substances, such as the 'gold' of the alchemists.

But, and that is what the discussion is about, I'm not sure that the Yi said "there will be a transformation if you make love".
I think the Yi only gave this hexagram to consider, as if it was saying "this is about transformation. Look at this hexagram. It may help you to understand better what it is all about."

maremaria · Nov 5, 2007

Skipper,
To avoid any misunderstanding, my post had nothing to do with your question. Martin mentioned something I had in my mind while I was trying to understand my 50’s answers. Just grap the chance to cLarify it. Still trying…

Till now I have connected 50 with opportunity cost :blush:

very shallow connection

Opportunity Cost : The cost of an alternative that must be forgone in order to pursue a certain action. Put another way, the benefits you could have received by taking an alternative action. Business term but one can find applications to everywhere(imo)
Some years ago I had to decided between spent time with my best friend (he broke up with her boyfriend and wanted to be with her ) and my boyfriend (we had to see each other for 10 days). I had to choose which relationship was more important for me . My best friend was my choice.
As for how my relationships were transformed . She is still my best friend, and he is ex-boyfriend. Of course things could be vice versa and the reason he is ex is not that choice of mine only. Again this is just an example from my personal experience and has nothing to do with your question and the answer you are looking for.

Maria

maremaria · Nov 5, 2007

martin said:
Yes, something like that. A chemical or alchemical process. Perhaps male and female elements mixing and integrating. On a physical/sexual level or on other levels (soul, psyche) or both.
It can happen in a relationship but also when we are alone, because we all have these elements or substances inside. And our inner alchemy can produce new inner substances, such as the 'gold' of the alchemists.

Yes, this is how I saw it then. It took me a while to find it ,and it was an alternative that make sence to me. But i always doubt... :mischief:

martin :Look at this hexagram. It may help you to understand better what it is all about."

I like that

Thank you,
Maria

skipper · Nov 5, 2007

Thank you for the interesting thread. I did want to mention that I was not going to make a decision based upon the results of one reading alone. Also, when I asked the question of how would the relationship be transformed, I was not asking from the perspective that it would be positive, even if that is what I would like to see. Hexagram 52 is neither positive nor negative in this response as i can see. I am in the process of learning about discernment, so I really don't want to be hurt, which is understandable I think, and if I can avoid it needlessly or keep from inviting it in needlessly, I think that would be smart.

dobro p · Nov 5, 2007

trojan said:
I'm doubting the validity of answers to this kind of question. Think about the unknown variables with questions like 'If he had sex with me how would he feel after ?'. I mean i think it would depend on a lot of things none of which can't be known beforehand . What you really want to know here is whether its a good idea for you to have sex with him so why not ask about you. So you get 50 and people say its transforming and that then leads you to say 'how will it be transformed' : See this is the line of thinking that that leads people into delusion, thinking big transformations are on their way and its all very big and of great import and stars will explode its all so misleading IMO. You may just as well ask 'if jim eats fish next friday how will he feel about that' and in answer to that I can see 50 would fit as well as any - he'll enjoy the dish which will fill him up and by transforming enrich his body - or you could start to think the fish will embark him on a journey of spiritual transformation if you don't remember to scale your answer to the size of the question.

If the Yi answered your question I think it just said something like 'hes full' or the sex leaves him satisfied - what else could it say ?

And 52 who knows but this line of questioning seems well set for the path to confusion and delusion if you ask me.

Ask about what you need to know and do in this situation. Second guessing others just isn't the best use of the Yi IMO.

hehehehehehehehhe

Heartwarming and heart-touching lol.

You're on my teeshirt list again.

Trojina · Nov 6, 2007

dobro said:
hehehehehehehehhe

Heartwarming and heart-touching lol.

You're on my teeshirt list again.

well i hope its pink

dobro p · Nov 6, 2007

trojan said:
well i hope its pink

What? The teeshirt? :flirt:

Trojina · Nov 7, 2007

dobro said:
What? The teeshirt?

yes the t-shirt

goddessliss · Jul 9, 2011

Did they have sex?

hexagram 50 no change

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