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Recurring Contemplation, Recurring Hexagram 20

elkoholik

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Hello!

I've got some interesting readings over the past 2 days. Mulling over the readings and I'm wondering if things can be viewed from another angle. Would greatly appreciate any other points of view or interpretation over the readings I've got!

1) What are X's thoughts about our relationship now?
20.4 --> 12

2) What does X wants from our relationship now?
20.2 --> 6

3) (Again on another day) What are X's thought on our relationship now?
20.6 --> 8

I personally have difficulty with Hexagram 20 because I find it hard to comprehend, with Contemplation being such a vague concept. But isn't it too much of a coincidence that Hexagram 20 Contemplation keeps popping up, even tho the changing line varies? I just somehow feel that the Iching is trying to tell me to reflect, contemplate about my relationship, or rather, X's contemplating about our relationship and wants me to do so as well.

Line 4 "Contemplation of the light of the kingdom, it furthurs one to exert influence as the guest of the king." seems to say to me that X is reflecting on the positive side of our relationship ("light of the kingdom") and he is pondering about his influence in this relationship. While Line 2 "Contemplation throught the crack of the door. Furthering for the perserverence of the woman." seems to tell me that X wishes for me to be like women in acient China, peering through the door crack, see all, hear all, know all, be quietly understanding and ask nothing? Lastly Line 6, revisiting the question of what are X's thought on our relationship on a different day, Line 6 "Contemplation of his life, the superior man is without blame." seems to imply to me that X progressed from Line 4 to Line 6, that he has as a "guest", contemplated and reflected deeply about our relationship and has somewhat attained peace and satisfaction, clearly understanding what he wants from our relationship and at peace with himself and detached from the situation given the position of line 6 being at the very top of the hexagram.

Hexagram 20 seems to be a recurring idea and that X is undergoing a period of evaluation of our relationship and that maybe that reflection has finally come to an end with Line 6 and he will finally knows what he wants as signified by Hexagram 8 instead of Hexagram 12? :confused:

Anyone else has any other views to why Hexagram 20 keeps appearing and how I can view this issue of recurring hexagram from another angle?
 

willowfox

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1) What are X's thoughts about our relationship now?
20.4 --> 12

He knows how to make this relationship go well, so let him get on with it and do his best for the both of you.

2) What does X wants from our relationship now?
20.2 --> 6

He wants to expand it.

3) (Again on another day) What are X's thought on our relationship now?
20.6 --> 8

His thoughts are focused on the greater good of the relationship and you.
 

elkoholik

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Hi Willowfox, thank you very much for your advice but, is there any significance behind the fact taht Hexagram 20 keeps appearing and not any other hexagrams? It seems too much of a coincidence isn't it?
 

hilary

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I'm normally all in favour of reading what Yi says as a direct answer to your question. On this occasion, though, I'd want to check out another possibility - whether these lines (especially 20.2) could be commenting on your approach - asking about X's feelings and thoughts from moment to moment, not about anything you can actually change or do yourself.

Maybe I'm just attributing my own response to Yi. Fortunately, it's easy for you to find out: you can ask what you need to know about how to approach the relationship.
 

bradford

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On this occasion, though, I'd want to check out another possibility - whether these lines (especially 20.2) could be commenting on your approach

Seconding that. The Yi might even be saying that the Yi isn't going to tell you as much about this other person as paying attention to this other person will tell you. Heck, one might even ask these questions directly to this other person and then observe how they answer.
 

hilary

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We're agreed... but we need to be a tad cautious here, not to confound the voice of our own experience with that of the oracle. Hence my suggestion of a new question to ask about this directly.
 

bradford

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not to confound the voice of our own experience with that of the oracle.

Now here's a question worth exploring on its own thread. Is the Yijing's answer going to be the same in each case? Or will it change to suit the level of experience or degree of comprehension? Does it respond according to who is listening in? Or according to who your friends are? Will it change response according to the resources you have at your disposal? Is the response specific to the querent as a person, with his own specific vocabulary of symbols, like dreams?

I realize that the model implied in this inquiry may be constructed backwards, and imply a willfulness or intelligence to the Yi that isn't there. In that case, and turning it existentially around: is it not fair to use all of the new resources and friends at our disposal?
 

elkoholik

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Thanks Hilary and Bradford for contributing. I did take you advise and did another reading: What do I need to know to approach my relationship with X?

All I can say about the answer I got was illuminating. I was given 27.1 --> 23.

It makes better sense to me now. I can see now that by being so focus and asking about X's views and what X wants, I have somehow lost myself, my sense of independence and forgot that sometimes, it doesn't take someone else to make me happy. I can make myself happy and do things I enjoy too, instead of being dependent and "losing the magic tortoise". :duh: Thank you very much Hilary for pointing this question out to me. I probably would still have been so focus on asking about X, X, X and forgot to take a step back to view things from another angle. :bows:

It gives me much more to think now to what I can do for myself to indirectly help myself and the relationship. But 1 more question, are the previous reading, to which all I got hexagram 20 but with varying lines redundant? As in, they do not throw light onto the situation at all?
 

elkoholik

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Hi Hilary and Bradford, another question which I hope you can help to enlighten me on. For the reading 20.4 --> 12 has a positive sounding line but a dismal relating hexagram. In such a case, doesn't it seems that no matter how much one contemplates or "honours the guest" as per line 4, the outcome will only lead to standstill and stagnation as per Hexagram 12?

Another example will be Hexagram 23 with line 4 changing. I have not gotten this hexgram in a reading but I was reading through the Iching in general, its hexagrams and lines, and just wondering, line 4 sounds horrible and hopeless and yet the changing line results in relating hexagram 35? Similarly, line 2 of hexagram 45 sounds hopeful, that all will be well, but it results in relating hexagram of 47? These 2 examples seems to be wildly leaping from despair to hope and hope to despair. I do understand that Iching is teaching us about how there is no constance in life, things are constantly in a flux of change and in times of good to be prepared for the bad, in times of bad to not lose hope and work to improve the situation. But isn't the above 2 examples a little too contradictory if one should happen to get them in a reading?

I don't quite seem to grasp how this works? Sometimes you get positive lines but end up with negative relating hexagrams or sometimes, it's the other way round where you get negative lines but positive relating hexagrams. It just doesn't seem to link or form a connecting scenario.
 
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bradford

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I think where you are going astray is shown in your referring to certain lines and gua as dismal, horrible, negative - or even positive. To me every Yijing text represents a choice between outcomes - the dismal texts are not predictions except of what you might go through if you make the wrong choice. Sometimes the right choice is not made explicit, but may be understood as being the opposite action or attitude of the one depicted in the text. You have not really understood any text of the Yi until you can see it from more sides than one. This is also one of the big dangers of taking the gua names or titles too seriously - these little gems should always be studied from lots of different angles.
Standstill, for instance, separating oneself from inferior people, getting away from the wrong crowd, can be a very positive and liberating experience.
 

elkoholik

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Sometimes the right choice is not made explicit, but may be understood as being the opposite action or attitude of the one depicted in the text.
Hi Bradford, thank you for your advise. I think I may have gotten what you are trying to say, still trying to grasp this sense of having "understood something but not quite sure what I understood exactly". Let me go think about it, but I'm not too sure that I understand your 1 sentence above.

In some way, am I right to say that it's exactly like wat the very last reading 27.1 is trying to convey: that I have taken words too literally, that I have become too involved, too dependent, trying to squeeze out more meaning out of every single word in the texts that I have lost sight of what my questions originally meant to find out and even, what the Iching is originally meant to do, it's not a matter of reading word for word, but rather a matter of intuition, that open-mindedness that one usually starts with, from various angles rather than get bounded strictly by the words? Hmmm, maybe I really should take a step back, meditate a little and and clear my mind, AND also get better reference books. I'm now only using Akira Rebalais Stephan Karcher.

Sigh.... Sometimes you tend to get so absorbed that you just lose sight of the original essence of things. It's like you see the jigsaw puzzle piece but fail to see the entire picture portrayed by the jigsaw. :( Thanks Bradford.
 

bradford

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By the way, I think your understanding of 27.1 is good.
We want to work for our insights, not be spoon fed.
 

elkoholik

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Thanks for the encouragement. Constantly reminding myself now of the advise given.
 

hilary

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More ammunition when considering 'contradictory' lines and hexagrams: the second hexagram isn't necessarily the future. It can also be (more often is, in my experience) an attitude/ stance/ agenda (etc...) with which you come to the question. Sometimes a perfectly 'positive' attitude just doesn't mesh well with the basic scenario of the first hexagram.

Have to rush out now, but there are plenty of people here who can say more. If you start a thread in 'divination discussion' with those examples you'll get some good responses.

On the subject of texts - www.hermetica.info :)
 

bradford

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The word Zhi in Zhi Gua (Mathews #0935) has dozens of possible meanings besides "Resultant" or "Destination" Gua. Hilary's suggestion here of the Zhi Gua positing something like a frame of reference or a context fits as well within accepted meanings for Zhi, as does LiSe's use of Zhi as a possessive.
Another image that I'll sometimes use is that of a gem or crystal, with several different facets, faces or sides. Each side presents something of a reflection that is a function of the direction it faces. That these are sometimes completely different colors or images is only a function of its multidimensionality, not of inherent self-contradiction. It would not be a three-dimensional gem if it didn't have opposite sides.
 

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