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Had "a talk" didn't go well

sunnygirl

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It has been well over a year since I have talked about where our relationship is going and today after another friend announces another engagement, I just broke down in tears. (not in front of them). That makes 4 in the last month.

My bf and I have been together for 3 years. I think it would be a good time to get engaged.

I texted him the news about the friend and asked if we were next.

He texted me back Nope with a smilie face. Then a joke.

I called him and brought up the relationship and it didn't go well at all. He's a Cancer and he clammed up like a clam. I was just trying to get any thoughts and he just kept saying he didn't know. I'm a Leo but didn't bring out the claws. I was purring and then just laid over like a wounded cat.

The was no answer and nothing was resolved.

I asked the Yi the following:

A. General Diagnosis of the relationship

12.1 to 25

B. Qualification of my position in the relationship

42

C. Qualification of bf's position in the relationship

40

D. Best path for me to follow in regards to this relationship

27.1.5.6 to 8

date and time of casts 25/11/2007 2.15 pm GMT +8
 

willowfox

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A. General Diagnosis of the relationship

12.1 to 25

The relationship is at a standstill especially regarding going to the next level, so all that you can do for the moment is to continue as you are.


D. Best path for me to follow in regards to this relationship

27.1.5.6 to 8

Hex 27.1 says do not concern yourself about what others have, so stop with the envy.

Hex 27.5 says to stay as you are for the moment and to just carry on but in the mean time you could ask advice about what to do from a friend.

Hex 27.6 Now could be the time to make your move on your boyfriend and try and get a deeper commitment out of him, it will probably be difficult but don't worry about it.

Hex 8 the need to unite for a common cause, to become engaged thus bringing the two of you together, so you will need to accomplish this task and make him commit to you.
 

mudpie

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Hi Sunnygirl.
First, off topic of yi, and strictly my opinion, what's a nice Leo girl like you doing with a Cancer man? He will put out your fire everytime.

that said.....3 years is a long time, and you have every right, and even MUST imo, find out where this relationship is going if you want marriage. and you obviously do.
12.1 to 25 stagnation and innocence(avoiding complications)...yup, it sounds like where this is right now.
You want more ......42
he wants the easy way out of making a commitment...40

27.6 is what hits me hardest. Sorrell's say to ask yourself: "are you the source of nourishment or the sacrificial lamb?" and 27 .1 says you can't complain if you let go of what nourishes you.
8 means stand your ground.

I think you should do what Leo does best. Be empowered and know that you deserve the best. Leos dont need claws. Don't ask this man if you guys are next. Tell him that it is what you want and then set a time frame. and then stand by it.

My niece did this after 3 years. At first, her heart was broken because the relationship went poof. Then she got herself together, found a great paying job in a new city, moved there and began loving her new life. Within one month, guess who showed up? NOt only did he ask his own company to transfer him to this city where she was, but he came with a big diamond.
 

sunnygirl

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Thanks willowfox and listener.

Standstill makes perfect sense at this point.

And I came here to ask for advice and am talking to a good friend of mine about this.

So it is time for him to poop or get off the pot!

The last time we had this talk he asked for more time and I gave it to him and plenty of it so the time is up!

You guys got my Leo Fire burning!

Seems like Dr. Phil's wife did this too after 3 years and he was being wishy washy so she left him just like that. Obviously he came back.:)

The bf will think he will give me the silent treatment and out silence me and then I will give in and things will go back to normal.

I'm angry and plan to just leave him be for awhile and then next time I see him tell him I want to be engaged by whatever date I decide on and then go on my way.
 

elizabeth

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Sunnygirl, Good luck. What you're about to do is very tough emotionally. Stick to your guns and don't give in. Come back here if you need support. Men will always take from women whatever we do not refuse them. He's been getting the milk for free, and now you're asking him to pay for it. If he says "no" or he's not ready to pay, you have your answer, and better to save time and make a clean break now than to wish you'd gotten out of it sooner. May the force be with you! :)
 

rosada

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Since we're talking astrology I think it's fair to mention that Mars is retrograde in Cancer just now. This suggests now is not the time for moving forward with new family arrangements in general and that in particular Cancerians will have a hard time forging ahead. It's much more supportive of moving "back home" - moving back with the parents, going back to an old game plan, going back to what is familiar. Furthermore Saturn, the planet of rules and commitments and the ruler of Cancer's house of Partners will be turning retrograde shortly, thus another indicator of putting off new vows. And finally Uranus, the planet of freedom and independance, just turned direct yesterday encouraging folks to quit waiting around to see what others are going to do and get on with their own lives.
All in all the astrology of the moment supports strengthening one's own position and does not support plunging into partner commitments. Thus, while it makes sence that the planets would be causing Sunnygirl to see she's waited around long enough, the planets are not promising that taking her stand will result in getting bf to propose. More likely he will let the relationship slip away. But that may be for the best anyway. Bottomline, Sunnygirl should know that if she gives an ultimatum, she better be prepared for it to be over.
 

Trojina

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Sunnygirl, Good luck. What you're about to do is very tough emotionally. Stick to your guns and don't give in. Come back here if you need support. Men will always take from women whatever we do not refuse them. He's been getting the milk for free, and now you're asking him to pay for it. If he says "no" or he's not ready to pay, you have your answer, and better to save time and make a clean break now than to wish you'd gotten out of it sooner. May the force be with you! :)

Not picking on Elizabeth specifically but i find the advice here, on this thread, quite strange.

Getting milk for free and now asking him to pay for it ? Is this the 1950s ? What is the 'milk' ? You can't mean sex surely ? Do you people really believe getting married changes things in a relationship ? Do you think marriage is 'paying ' ? Do you all think its a good idea to twist someones arm to marry you ? Whats the big deal about marriage anyway, it guarantees nothing. To say you'll stick with someone for ever has always seemed fairly unrealistic to me but still anyway if this guy doesn't want to marry why should he ? An ultimatum is hardly a great or romantic way to start married life cos basically its like forcing someones arm.

Anyway looking at the reading nowhere do I see the advice 'give him an ultimatum'. Look at the diagnosis for his position hex 40, hes quite likley to make a bid for freedom i reckon. And the 27 to 8 i think really advises Sunnygirl to consider what she finds or doesn't find nourishing about this relationship.



Would be nuts not to try living together first IMO if you don't already live together. Of course if he doesn't want to live together either thats another story.
 
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sunnygirl

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Thanks again everyone!

It is weighing heavy on my mind of course.

It's 3am so I hope I make some sense in what I type.

It does seem astrology is pointing to maybe enough is enough and maybe I should be ready to move on.

I do feel odd and sort of bad thinking I would have to push someone to marry me.

My point is and that of many women in this situation when referring to the cow and free milk thing is that why should a woman invest her time and efforts into a relationship where there is no chance of it moving forward when that is what she wants?

I really don't want to be the lifetime girlfriend or date. It is insulting. I don't want to see myself us living in separate places and living separate lives.

With marriage that means coming together to live and plan a life together. Of course there are no guarantees as there are no guarantees for anything in life but the commitment of marriage would make a formal commitment for that life plan.

So if I would like to be married and he doesn't, to continue on a relationship where he knows he is never going to do that is a bit deceptive. He gets my investment into an exclusive relationship where he does get the regular sex and he doesn't have to compete with other men for my time, in a sense without having to do anything.

I need to wake up more before I write anymore :)
 

elizabeth

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Hi Trojan,

Since you mentioned my post, I wanted to clarify. No, I do not think twisting someone's arm to marry you is a good idea. The issue here is what Sunnygirl wants. She said she wanted marriage and that she had asked her boyfriend about getting married. He told her he didnt want to. She has that answer. Her latest post said she is prepared to ask again and then disappear -- the ultimatum was not my suggestion, it is her plan.

I believe that after 3 years she has a right to know if the boyfriend in question shares her own longterm goals (which happen to be marriage). So far, we know he does not. But we also know that she asks, he saays no, and she sticks around. I didn't recommend the ultimatum, but i DO recommend sticking with one once it is offerred. The poitn is that by doing so, she will see where she stands. This was her plan anyway, far before my post. It weakens one's position to give any ultimatum and then backtrack and stick around; and in this case her heart and emotions are at stake.

There are reasons people do not want to commit and get married -- they're not ready, or they truly want the option of dating other people. If her goal is marriage, and this man doesn't share that goal, then she has a right to 1) know about it and 2) act on it as she sees fit.

Also, to address your point about living together, statistics show that couples who live together before marriage are less likely to remain married longterm. Not my opinion but what the numbers show.
 

Trojina

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Another reason people don't marry is simply because they don't believe in it, it doesn't have any relevance or purpose to them - it isn't just that they want to date other people.

Best of luck anyway Sunny :)
 
J

jesed

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Hi sunnygirl
Just in case the comment could be useful

A. General Diagnosis of the relationship
12.1 to 25
1.- Text-based method

The relation faced a long time of stagnation (started in february, 2007 and consolidated around June 2007); lack of intimacy and deep comunication. You need to re-view what happened between those dates, because in that PAST is the root of what you are facing in the PRESENT.

Line 1 of sign 12 points that between the first and the third weeks of February, 2007 there were clear signs pointing the posibilities of action for the relation faded away; but you missed the time to retreat as the line advice (see Whilelm's comment on this line)

Because you hasn't retreat from a relation with no more posibilities of action, now you are facing a time of un-certainities and unexpected development (Sign 25). This time started around middle of september, 2007 and would rule until next June, 2008. The Wings says sign 25 implies a lot of misfortune comming from external world... but this is atracted because inner weakness. (In 61, there is a inner truth that atracts and influcences good things in the external world; in 25 there is lack of inner clarity that atracts troubles from the external world)

2.- Mathematical-based method
a) 12 is a Total combine hex (good fortune and harmony), 25 is a Total clash hex (bad fortune, conflict and posibility to break a relation). This points a very good relation could face serious conflict in the near future
b) You are Rabbit, under aspect Wife. Produced by the water of day and month Pig. This points you are a strong woman facing a very fortunate period of luck. Your rol in the relation is Wife
c) He is Dog, under aspect Father. He is not produced nor destroyed by Water of day and month Pig. This points he is facing a regular period of luck. His rol in the relation seems to be more paternal-based than husband-based.
d) Rabbit and Dog are in a combination relation. This point there is a strong bound among you. A strong link.
e) The inner trigram represents you and your actions; the outer trigram represents him and his actions
f) The moving line 1 is Goat, under aspect Father. It moves to combine with line 4 wich is Horse (aspect Husband). This implies you moves to reinforce or intimate him to act like husband. The resultant element is Rat under aspect Children. Seems like you want to start the discussion about having child. But Rat (Children-water) destroys Horse (husband-fire). This implies your movement, instead of getting him acting like Husband, would scare him to become one.

B. Qualification of my position in the relationship
42
42 is a tricky hex.. many people tends to be misleaded by this hex, just like hex 55.
Under 42, you wants to improve the relation and lead it to a higher level, but the fact is that you already have reached the peak of the ascendent movement.. what you has reached right now is the MOST you can reach.
If you like what you have reached, then the task is to keep it save. If you are unsatisfy with what you have reached, then you need to decide to accept it or leave it.
But, as the Wings says: 42 is the start of decadence

C. Qualification of bf's position in the relationship
40
He wants a free-relation. No tensions, no bounderies, having-my-own-space.. etc.

This two answers points the root of the conflict and, therefore, the stagnation. You are moving in 2 oposite direction. You need to recognice this dynamic, and decide according to reality: to negociate the diference or to leave.

D. Best path for me to follow in regards to this relationship
27.1.5.6 to 8
27 is, among other things, about independency. How independent are you within the relation? maybe if you get more independent, the union (hex 8) could rise again.

It is important to remind that Yi's answers are only MODELS of reality: you has the job to confront the MODEL with the REAL LIFE and derivate your own conclusions from that.

Best wishes
 

sunnygirl

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Jesed,

what an awesome interpretation! :bows:

I am thinking back to what went on February 2007. I recall we had a major fight maybe the end of January. He had moved to his own place and I had asked him if he would mind me staying there until I found my own place and he said no and I was quite upset.

I posted here about how odd he was behaving on Valentine's Day.

I had a ticket to leave for there February but changed it as during that time major things were going on at work. My workmate was in the hospital and there were rumours that our jobs would be eliminated.

So I was supposed to return to the bf in February but didn't. I suppose from that time until June, I was feeling lonely and neglected.

There was a guy at work that we flirted back and forth. It was a nice fantasy but it never went any further than that and actually now that I think back I was projecting my feelings for the bf onto him as bf wasn't meeting my needs and we had been apart for so long.

It was actually about 2 weeks after the end of June that I arrived here downunder.

The bf did let me stay with him when I got here.

September is when I moved out and into my own house. He didn't really want me to leave.

So February 2007 is when I should have ended this relationship?

After thinking more about Hexes 42 and 40 and 27 maybe the real answer is not an ultimatum.

How independent am i in the relationship? Well I am tied to him right now so not independent at all.

I am seeing independence as meaning something besides me being too needy as that isn't the case. I have my own house and we live apart and I am busy with work and things during the week and we don't really talk much during the week but we spend most weekends together. I think I'm pretty independent in that way.

Where I not independent is where I am free to meet and talk to other men if I choose to.

I want more than just a casual relationship ie 42 and that is why I am exclusive with him as I thought this was leading to that.

He wants me but wants his freedom too ie 40 but I do think he wants me to be true to him.

Have his cake and eat it too so to speak.

So meditating and thinking more about the entire picture and thinking back to events that went on before and after i got here, I don't think an ultimatum is the right thing. Begging someone to marry me is insulting and hurts my pride and really why would I want to be with someone who doesn't really want me?

My solution is to do what is best for me. I don't feel ready to end this relationship yet but I am going to lean towards Hex 40 as in seeing this as a casual thing and allow myself to date others if i want to. This is my independence.
 

mudpie

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Sunnygirl,
Just to clarify....Saying what you want and need is NOT begging someone to marry you.... An *ultimatum* is not designed to lure the man home, it is the stating of a fact, a fork in the road. It's not a matter of looking at the astrological aspects and then saying that "well, at this time he might not 'take the bait' so I better wait."

Regardless of what he does, Sunny, it is simply in your best interests to stand by what you feel and what you need. There is absolutely nothing insulting about coming to this fork in the road after 3 years.....it is almost inevitable. I tend to think it is more insulting to roll over like a kitten and accept his non-committal stance.
But you need to come to this yourself. Of course you can wait, that is your option. Or you could decide to accept this relationship without marriage, like jesed says...the 42 signifying you have reached the best you can have with this man.

just know that by using a *velvet ultimatum* , you can be extremely gracious, kind, sweet and let him know you love him. If a man isnt going to marry you, it really hurts to let go, but you save time and a lot more heartache.
 

sunnygirl

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Listener, I see your point here.

Maybe it really isn't an ultimatum but a decision. Am I am going stay with him or not.

I'm just doing nothing and just thinking. I haven't contacted him or anything. I really don't want to talk to him at this point.

I'm thinking about just going over to his place later this week and give his key and stuff back and end it.

I just feel nauseated when I even think of him. I feel so used.
 

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