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Creative Wooing? Hex 1 to 31

openheartsf

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I asked the yi about an encounter I had last night with my friend. It was very confusing. It made me think this guy is a little not right in the head. It’s obvious he’s trying to stay in my orbit but cannot for the life of him do it in a direct way, which is very frustrating. He’s gotten in to the pattern of pulling me toward him and then pushing me away. The details of the encounter are too many but my assessment of last night is that he devised a plan to see me and then when he did see me he got too flustered to follow through with his plan (to give me a ride home).

I prefer to not take the lead in this situation and pursue him because he’s already pushed me away once when I attempted this.

He grew up in a dysfunctional alcoholic family. He’s told me he’s afraid of women and that when he likes someone he runs away from them. I also come from a dysfunctional alcoholic family and I see lots of red flags here. I’m drawn to him but I don’t want to get in to a co-dependent relationship so I’m pulling out.

Anyway, I asked the yi “what did he want from me last night”?

I received Hex 1 with moving lines 1,2 & 6 changing to Hex 31 “wooing”.

Hex 1 is the yang, masculine force. I’m wondering if he’s looking for me to be the leader here, or if he’s trying to be the leader and isn’t very good at it…or is he just trying to get creative with his “wooing” process since he’s afraid of doing it in a direct way.

I’m never sure how to make a story out of so many moving lines.

Does anybody have any thoughts?
 
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gahan

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Hi Openheartsf,

Some thoughts I would like to share with you first about what you describe: pushing away and pulling. What I've been taught about what you describe is what is called 'orbiting around", really wanting a connection or commitment but something is making the person go around it, returning to the same point again and again. This IMHO has to do with very early, maybe even at around birth, childhood. Especially this has to do with the mother. I won't get into details, but it will be very hard for this person to make a real commitment to someone, it is in his cells as it were. Do believe me, this man is true in his intentions, but he can't help orbitting around (push-pull). He's not a bad person, he is just not able at this time. This man would really benefit with a bonding session in a therapy setting. Okay, said that, now to the Yi answer.

About the question, I personally find it very difficult to interpret an answer about a question I ask about someone else. I always have the feeling the answer is not about the person, but about myself. And I have the same feeling here, it's about you. I would personally ask a question like: How do I handle this situation with this man? That's much easier to interpret.

So I would like to look at the answer as it where about you in this situation. Seems more fitting to me.

first line: do not act, as you wrote: don't take the initiative
second line: stay true to yourself, when I read what you wrote you are doing that!
sixth line: don't think you can experiment with this situation, it won't do you good.

Cheers,

Gahan
 
D

diamanda

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Or, if the answer refers to him, 1:6 is really alarming. This line can be
taken, of course, in a more general sense, but in this specific situation
i think it points to arrogance. This guy and his whole behaviour sounds
like what some people call 'passive-aggressive' (not as a 'disease', but as
a technique people use). He's hiding, he begins to appear, but once 'there'
he takes things too far and becomes isolated out of arrogance. And then
he behaves as 31, ie waiting for you to go after him. It sounds a bit like
a game of hide and seek, but because you're not 'seeking' him, he makes
a swift appearance, then tries a game of run and chase. Hmm... i can see
why you don't appear to be very interested! I've met quite a few people like
him, and they always tend to appear weak, cute, so that you feel sorry for
them and their 'nasty background' - however i must say that line 1:6 always
worries me when the question is about someone else. Arrogance can take
many forms, and passive aggression is just one of them - but at the end
of the day, it's still a form of aggression. As you said yourself, "this guy is
a little not right in the head". I agree, he sounds well dodgy, and when
something does not seem to be right, in most cases it really isn't. Glad to
hear you're being cautious!
 

openheartsf

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Gahan

I asked the follow up question:
Q: How do I handle this situation with C? 18.2,3 to 23
Hex 18 Healing/Arresting Decay / Repair
Line 2
Through weakness an imbalance has occurred. It is fixed quietly
Do not answer to demands which go against your sense of righteousness, beauty or love, even if they are commonly accepted as being good and nice. Many 'nice' gestures are demeaning for the recipient, taking away his strength or self-confidence.
Line 3
In righting the mistakes of the past, the heart can get too carried away. No harm done
Fighting decay and weakness will only succeed if one exaggerates a bit. Straightening something bent needs a little bending in the other direction.
Hex 23 Splitting Apart

NOTE: I've gotten hex 18 many times in regards to this rlsp
 

openheartsf

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Diamonda, maybe he (let’s call him C) is trying to manipulate me. I’ve never thought of him as “arrogant” but more like how Gahan described him (totally incapable of getting close to someone).

He’s never been in a relationship longer than a year.

But maybe you are right. He never advertised his messed up childhood. We’ve been friends for over a year and it just came out after I told him about my background. Then slowly I found out that he’d had an abusive past. He goes to 12-step meetings to try to deal with it.

So more details about last night. He showed up at a dance venue I frequent. I have not seen him there in MONTHS, but he was there last night. He called me a few times a few weeks ago and I never returned his calls and I stopped going to some of the other haunts I usually run in to him at. He came inside the building, circled around like a shark and then went back outside. I’m not sure if he saw me initially as I was just coming out of the restroom. When I left he was still outside. I asked him why he was hanging out outside and he told me he had planned to meet a “friend” there (a female) but that she didn’t show and so he decided not to go in.

He asked me if I needed a ride home. When I said sure, he then proceeded to insinuate that the FRIEND he was talking to (a man I didn’t know) could give me a ride home(not himself). It really felt like he was messing with my head. The friend who seemed as confused as I was changed the subject back to the Nurse friend C was supposed to meet. It was funny because he asked C “are you interested in her?” (referring to the nurse). Of course he said no (‘cos I was standing there). He said “no…someone else”. Then he started saying things about “girls…blah blah blah…they are too much trouble” or something I don’t know I lost interest at that point. WTF?
I told him I had another ride and said goodnight.

I don’t know if he’s intentionally messing with me…trying to make me jealous, or it’s pure fear and insecurity. Either way, I agree, it’s a dangerous situation to be attracted to a man like this and totally immature behavior for a man of his age (almost 40).

He's actually a very sweet guy and has been a good friendd...but when things shifted from "just friends" to "something more" the dynamic completely changed.

Thanks for helping shed some light on the situation.
 

gahan

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Gahan

I asked the follow up question:
Q: How do I handle this situation with C? 18.2,3 to 23
Hex 18 Healing/Arresting Decay / Repair
Line 2
Through weakness an imbalance has occurred. It is fixed quietly
Do not answer to demands which go against your sense of righteousness, beauty or love, even if they are commonly accepted as being good and nice. Many 'nice' gestures are demeaning for the recipient, taking away his strength or self-confidence.
Line 3
In righting the mistakes of the past, the heart can get too carried away. No harm done
Fighting decay and weakness will only succeed if one exaggerates a bit. Straightening something bent needs a little bending in the other direction.
Hex 23 Splitting Apart

NOTE: I've gotten hex 18 many times in regards to this rlsp

Hi Openheartsf,

I really like the text you wrote, very fitting and a lot of beaty in it. Is it yours or from a book? If from a book, which one, and if it's you can I hire you to help with the consulting I do for people?

Anyway, seems very clear to me.

What does rlsp mean?

Cheers, Gahan
 

openheartsf

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Gahan

I wish I knew the yi ching that well! No the text is a combination of stuff I compiled when I googled "hex 18". I think some of it is from LiSe's website.

"rlsp" is an abbreviation of "relationship".

Anyway, just to wrap up this story I saw C last night with another girl. He was clearly interested in her and it was clear that they were together, and he gave me the brush off. I'm hurt, but there you have it. Just goes to show there is always a good reason when a man is not pursuing you with gusto and if he's making excuses for why he doesn't want to be with you, we must believe him. I'm tired of this pattern in my life and would love to find a way to transcend it.

Be well,

Openheart
 
D

diamanda

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Oh dear, he sounds like a real piece of work this guy. Obviously you did the right thing
to stay away from him in the past, not return his calls (although this fact alone would
be something like an open declaration of war on such a type of individual). By messing
with your mind, he probably wants some kind of revenge, and/or proof to himself that
he 'has' you under his influence (31...?). However, it doesn't really matter why he does
this. What matters is that he does this!

Your 18>23 answer sounds to me as if saying, 'you have minimal fault here', 'the real
fault lies with him', and 23 could not be clearer. Steer well clear.

"there is always a good reason" - yes there always seem to be. And the reason is
99% of the time someone else, either in his life, or in his heart.
In the case of arrogant self-centered people, this someone is their own self, of who
they are so full, that nobody else can ever fit in, and nobody stands a chance.

One more thing on line 18:2, in combination with what you said, "I'm tired of this
pattern in my life". I'd say don't take this personally. It's not a pattern in your life.
It's just that this type of people are, unfortunately, very abundant, all around, and in
every country around the world. I think your only 'fault' is that you tend to see them
in a softer light, make excuses for them (eg 'he can't get close to other people'), take
it personally, take them seriously, etc. ("mistakes as a result of weakness"). It's a
very hard thing to stomach, but nasty manipulative people do exist, and in most cases
they appear to be the sweetest sad little puppies on earth.
 

gahan

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Gahan

I wish I knew the yi ching that well! No the text is a combination of stuff I compiled when I googled "hex 18". I think some of it is from LiSe's website.

LiSe is a person with high qualities, and it's also a high quality to choose high quality text.

"rlsp" is an abbreviation of "relationship".

Ah thanks, I've been to long from forums and chat sites I guess...

Anyway, just to wrap up this story I saw C last night with another girl. He was clearly interested in her and it was clear that they were together, and he gave me the brush off. I'm hurt, but there you have it.

Sorry that you have to go through this. But on the other hand, you have detected it beforehand before falling in to something not right for you. This seeing him with someone else is only a confirmation.

Just goes to show there is always a good reason when a man is not pursuing you with gusto and if he's making excuses for why he doesn't want to be with you, we must believe him.

Maybe he felt that you need some real commitment and he couldn't give it.

I'm tired of this pattern in my life and would love to find a way to transcend it.

Is it still a pattern or is there some development in it? I don't know your past experiences in rlsp (... I'm learning here:)), but there may be some growth in it. You are the one to know.

Cheers,

Gahan
 

openheartsf

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Gahan, you ask wise questions of me!

Is it still a pattern or is there some development in it? I don't know your past experiences in rlsp

Yes, it's a pattern. I tend to become attracted to men who won't commit. I don't know this initially, and it's often for different reasons (they have issues with committment or they are still in love with someone else).

I was married once, and I ended it. I often think I am the one who is afraid of the committment, so I attract a man who will eventually leave me, or I attract the nice guy who I will leave. I've been working on my "issues" in one way or another. I guess this is why I am a softie (as Diamonda said) in regards to other people's issues. I know I'm not perfect but I have good intentions and am working on myself. If I see that someone else is also aware of his issues (like C) I give him the benefit of the doubt. However, when HE was initially pursuing ME I told him I just wanted to be friends...why? I'm not exactly sure. I was drawn to him, but I saw some things that were red flags. But the closer we got, the more I trusted him. The truth is that we are both so similar it would be like looking in to a mirror of our own dysfunction.

I aske the Yi another question about it today...

"why didn't he choose me?"

I received Hex 35.4

35 clearly deals with attraction but line 4 is about danger and deviousness (Progress attracts thieves. Testing and dangerous times.)

If the yi is answering my question directly then I read it as him feeling threatened by me in some way. Which makes sense as he TOLD me that he thought I was looking for a rlsp and he wasn't...he just wanted to date lots of women. To this day I don't know why he thought that as I never once mentioned anything of the kind, but whatever, sixth sense I guess 'cos he's right :)

So maybe the better question is "why didn't I choose him" and if the yi is giving me insight in to my own psyche then it is saying this was a dead end because HE is dangerous in some way, which I think he is as a romantic partner...but as a friend he was great.

Well, much to mull over as I prepare to really let this door close. There is a part of me that does NOT want to accept this, but I know if I am to be happy that I have no choice but to do so.

I do truly appreciate you support and kind words. Even while I realize on an intellectual level that C is flawed I can't help but feel rejected. It helps to have a place to voice my feelings about it!

:hug:
 

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