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Attempted Contact from Without

exomani

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I have been consulting the I Ching, off and on again, for about twenty-five years. Until this post, I have only ever told one other person that I consult The Oracle.

Although I had not consulted the I Ching in well over a year, events recently transpired to cause me to seek out it’s wisdom and advice, once again, as follows:

I received an unexpected invitation to my 40th High School Reunion, earlier this summer, and it triggered a premonition about my possibly being contacted by my “old high school flame”.

I have asked a series of questions, and cast the coins, regarding my premonition, and have received some rather startling answers from The Oracle. The answers I received are so startling (At least to me.), I have been contemplating sharing them with someone.

Today, I asked the following question of The Oracle, and cast the coins:

“Should I, as the superior man, post this (Initial’s of Old Flame) contact sequence on the I Ching website?”

The answer I received was:

Hexagram 50 – Ting, with changing lines 2, 4, and 6, changing into Hexagram 15 - Modesty

I interpret this answer to be an affirmative, but with warnings, and have decided to begin sharing both my questions to, and my answers from, the I Ching concerning this event in my life.

Gary, a.k.a. ExoMani
 

willowfox

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“Should I, as the superior man, post this (Initial’s of Old Flame) contact sequence on the I Ching website?”

The answer I received was:

Hexagram 50 – Ting, with changing lines 2, 4, and 6, changing into Hexagram 15 - Modesty

All the lines that you received are part of your answer, no particular one is above another here.

So, it begins by telling you that when you post you will encounter people who plainly won't like you but don't let them distract you from your goal. It goes on to say that you need to be more prudent about your ideas and the way that you plan to set forth your questions and answers, think before you do something so as not to make a fool of yourself, and don't place to much importance on people who will answer but in reality know nothing, don't let them spoil your meal. And so to the final line, 6, it says that you know what you want to achieve so go for it.
 

Sparhawk

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popcorn_movie.gif
 

rosada

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..Ah, TEMPTATION!

Go ahead and post. Pluto is at the last degrees of Sagittarius this year. Perfect time for changing the course of human consciousness through a simple act of Revelation!!!
 

exomani

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Your interpretation is incorrect. The fourth line of hexagram 50 is the emphasised line. The cauldron has toppled over and spilled the meal. Think twice. Then decide against. Regard this posting as a moment of weakness and recoup your losses. Return to your private contemplation, it is by far the better way.

So, you don’t subscribe to the theory that an answer given by The Oracle is highly subjective to the person asking the question?

I was originally led to the I Ching through my extensive reading of the works of Carl Gustav Jung, the psychiatrist and founder of the school of analytical psychology, who wrote the forward to the Wilhelm/Baynes translation.

In his forward, C.G. Jung writes about asking the I Ching’s judgement about his “intention to present it (The I Ching) to the Western mind.” Jung writes that he received the following answer from The Oracle:

Hexagram 50 – Ting, with changing lines 2, and 3, changing into Hexagram 35 – Progress

Now, given how I was drawn to the I Ching in the first place, I found it significant that I, too, received an answer that revolves around Hexagram 50 – Ting, (Albeit with two (2) different changing lines.) to my question about presenting my personal experiences in using The Oracle to others.

ExoMani
 

exomani

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All the lines that you received are part of your answer, no particular one is above another here.

So, it begins by telling you that when you post you will encounter people who plainly won't like you....

I tend to agree. :rofl:
 

exomani

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..Ah, TEMPTATION!

Go ahead and post. Pluto is at the last degrees of Sagittarius this year. Perfect time for changing the course of human consciousness through a simple act of Revelation!!!

Believe it, or not, the temptation is really not all that great. In truth, I have gone to great lengths to avoid this person for many, many years.
 
D

diamanda

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50:2 - even if some people won't like you, they 'cannot harm you'.
50:4 - a difficult and very demanding task; you need all your energy chanelled
properly, and not wasted on anything inferior. If you do that, the task will not
succeed.
50:6 - advice as pure as jade.
And modesty.

The only danger i can see here is paying attention to anything inferior.
Perhaps the meaning is just concentrate on your reading and don't be distracted by
anything else.
 

willowfox

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I'm happy to let the superior man go ahead and find out for himself, if that's what he thinks.

He is probably very happy to hear that you have given your permission for him to post his readings. Very nice of you! Given the fact that no harm can come to this person because he is completely anonymous to us all, so what is your problem with him?
 

exomani

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It took me a little while, but I think I understand your “comment”.

I’m pretty sure that the ending to my “movie” is going to be more “Gone With the Wind” than “Casablanca”. I think, however, that the superior man is expected to say something classier than, “Frankly, Scarlet, I don’t give a damn.”
 

jilt

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Dear Exomani,

I think the fourth line is about officials (ministers, bureaucrats, if you like). They should welcome and facilitate your entry on this board as an experienced Yi- reader. That line is not about you, but you can deal with it in wisdom by taking the counsel of the 6th line.
 

exomani

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As I said, in my very first post, “I have asked a series of questions, and cast the coins, regarding my premonition, and have received some rather startling answers from The Oracle. The answers I received are so startling (At least to me.), I have been contemplating sharing them with someone.”

Now, it’s probably time for me to provide a little more background information regarding my recent premonition, as follows:

1. This is not the first time that I have had a premonition concerning my “old high school flame” attempting to contact me.

2. The last time this happened, around twelve (12) years ago, I asked The Oracle a series of questions regarding my first premonition, and the answers I received clearly indicated that my old flame would, indeed, attempt to contact me.

3. Sure enough, a little over eleven (11) years ago, my old flame did attempt to contact me.

4. When I asked The Oracle how I should respond to her attempted contact, I received a series of answers that told me, in no uncertain terms, to avoid all contact with this person.

5. I followed The Oracle’s advice and did not return my old flame’s telephone call.

6. To this day, I have not regretted following The Oracle’s advice.

When I had my recent premonition, about a month ago, I wrote down my first question to The Oracle and cast the coins. Here is my first question and the answer I received:

Question of 3-Jul-08

It is extremely unlikely that (Initial’s of Old Flame) will attempt to contact me again. However, in the unlikely event that she does attempt to contact me again, should I, as the superior man, permit contact?

Answer of 3-Jul-08

Hexagram 42 – Increase, with changing line 2; Changing into Hexagram 61 – Inner Truth
 

Sparhawk

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It took me a little while, but I think I understand your “comment”.

Not really but if it fits, somehow, in your view of the situation, all the better.

FWIW, it wasn't about your question, or you. :)
 

Sparhawk

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I hope you are not allergic to pea(nuts)... :D
 

Sparhawk

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:rofl:
 

willowfox

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I think he may realise, later, the degree to which he has misinterpreted the I Ching in other matters throughout his life as well. Such a realisation can indeed be damaging. Though it is inevitable and cannot be helped. The tripod breaks a leg and the meal spills out over the floor. This is an oracle of great loss. One of the biggest losses we face as people interested in interpreting oracles is the realisation of the sheer depth of our error. That is what is on the cards for this man.

Just like a dog with a bone, ain't you? Your psychic as well as a big headed, arrogant "???".
As for insulting people, you seem to be doing an excellent job of that with your stupid remarks.
 
D

diamanda

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42, change 2, to 61

Sounds like a 'yes' to me, as you can probably already see yourself. You're about to have
a bout of good luck, gifts and blessings are coming. All this either means that if this person
contacts you, and you respond, then all these good things will come from that quarter; or
it could also be, as is sometimes the case with the I Ching, it tells you what it wants to tell
you about your life at present, regardless of what you have just asked. It sounds to me that
you have nothing to worry about, and lots of goodness to look forward to.
 

exomani

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42, change 2, to 61

Sounds like a 'yes' to me, as you can probably already see yourself.

That is also my interruption of the answer to the first question I asked of The Oracle.

Over the next couple of days, I will post the answers to the additional questions I have already asked of The Oracle, concerning this same subject.

I, however, did not, and do not, anticipate any kind of a “happy ending” coming out of all of this. I currently view it simply as some unfinished business that I appear to be under some karmic obligation to clean up. But, time will tell, as this little cycle has yet to reach its final conclusion.
 
D

diamanda

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I know what you mean about unfinished business, especially lasting so long.
Perhaps this is where the good luck lies for you - in rounding up the issue. It
would be interesting to read the subsequent answers you got. And i'm sure
you're aware of this already, but the I Ching has covered itself in advance
("Ten pairs of tortoises cannot oppose it") :)
 

exomani

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On 4-Jul-08, I asked The Oracle my second question concerning the subject issue, as follow:

Question of 4-Jul-08:

I think I understand (The answer to my first question of 3-Jul-08.).

What is likely to be the end result of allowing contact with the superior man?

Answer of 4-Jul-08:

Hexagram 31 – Hsien/ Influence (Wooing), with changing lines, 1, 3, and 6; Changing into Hexagram Wu Wang/ Innocence (The Unexpected)
 

exomani

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On the afternoon of 4-Jul-08, I asked The Oracle my third question concerning the subject issue, as follows:

Question of Afternoon of 4-Jul-08:

What does (Initial’s of Old Flame) want from me, at this point in our lives?

Answer of Afternoon of 4-Jul-08:

Hexagram 28 – Ta Kuo/ Preponderance of the Great, with changing line 5;

Changing into Hexagram 32 – Heng/ Duration
 

exomani

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On 5-Jul-08, I asked The Oracle my fourth question concerning the subject issue, as follows:

Question of 5-Jul-08:

Future contact: What’s in if for me?

Answer of 5-Jul-08:

Hexagram 56 – Lu/ The Wanderer, with no changing lines.
 
D

diamanda

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This is how it sounds to me:

Should i permit contact?
42, line 2, to 61
This was a yes, permit contact. You will no doubt benefit, and this will have a
lot to do with your inner truth. What that inner truth is, only you know, and if
you don't, you will find out.

What is likely to be the end result of allowing contact?
31, lines 1,3,6, to 25
You will realise that sexual attraction is still there, either on her part, or on
yours, or on both. However nothing will come out of this attraction. Whoever
of the two of you feels it, will still not show it, will not follow this whim, and
will not speak about it either. The contact will be 'innocent'. Or 'it'd better be',
otherwise the result will be misfortune. All the lines of 31, and 25, both strongly
advise to not act upon this attraction.

What does she want from me?
28, line 5, to 32
28:5 sounds to me as if it sums up the 31>25 answer. There is still sexual
attraction, but it leads nowhere. There cannot be any renewal. 32 means
that both of you should continue on whatever direction in life you're already
going.

What's in it for me? 56
You will finally be able to move on. You will finally be free from her, she will
not influence your life anymore. You said in one of your posts that over the
years you have gone to great lengths to avoid her. Also, when she tried to
contact you a decade ago, the issue was so serious for you that you had to
consult the I Ching, and decided to stay well away. I can only guess that
she's either a seriously flawed person, if you're so intent on staying away,
or that you were very hurt by the whole thing. She definitely doesn't sound
like a stalker though, as a phonecall (or whatever) once every decade hardly
constitutes stalking. In any case, so many years have gone by. Chances are
that she has changed a lot. She might well be happily married, for all you know.
In any case, it will be a blessing for you (42:2) that you will be able to move on
from this old story, and put it well behind you.
 

exomani

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This is how it sounds to me:

Your interpretation is very insightful, meaning, of course, that I pretty much agree with it. :)

My actual relationship with this person lasted for over four years. She was a quiet, pretty, little Ice Princess, and I was, unfortunately, too young, foolish, and in love to consciously admit to myself that I was wasting my time with her. I’ve since come to realize that she had the classic Jungian Introverted-Feeling Type personality, and that there was no way I could ever have reached her.

I’ve also come to realize that my old flame really reveled in all of the attention that I showered upon her. She loved the fact that I continued to chase, pursue, and woo her, without her having had to put much effort into the relationship. And that’s what all of her earlier attempts to contact me have been about. Except for the one instance when she actually called my home, when it was very unlikely that anyone would be at home, of course, it had all been messages to me through third parties (other old classmates, friends, and members of my family).

Her call to me, of years ago, fit her MO perfectly, of course. She called in the early afternoon, when no one was likely to be home, and left a brief message without mentioning her maiden name. (Her first, middle, and married name are almost as common, in the USA, as “John Smith”.) In fact, the person that first came to mind, when I read the message my wife had written down, was another person with the exact same name. I’m a professional, who has done a lot of contact work over the years, and her message was so brief that my wife wasn’t sure if it was a personal call, or a business call from one of the various agencies that I worked with at the time. It flashed briefly thought my mind, a little while later, that it might have been my old flame, but, just as quickly, I laughed it off. After all, in our four year plus relationship, she had called me no more than four times, and then only when the reason for the call was extremely, extremely important to her personally.

I knew my caller wasn’t anyone I worked with, so I put her call down to a wrong number and didn’t even bother to listen to the answering machine’s message. But, I’m one of those people that remember phone numbers, and the area codes of the number the caller had left nagged at the back of my mind. I hadn’t thrown the note my wife had written away, so I looked at it again, about two weeks later. Sure enough, it was the area codes from the town where she had once had an apartment, and probably still lived. So, I got on the internet, did my reverse telephone searches, etc. and confirmed that it was indeed my old flame.

I also consulted The Oracle, and received a series of answers to my questions, about my old flame, that all revolved around the most sinister aspects of hexagram 44 – Kou/ Coming to Meet, and hexagram 54 – Kuei Mei/ The Marrying Maiden.

After a lot of thought, and insights from The Oracle, I concluded that my old flame just wanted me to “renew the chase” to satisfy her ego. After all, if she really wanted to talk to me, she could have called me at a time when I might have actually been at home to receive the call, or have used her maiden name, or have even called me again. No, I concluded; the point of her call was not really to talk to me, but rather to see if I would take the offered bait, as I had always done during our actual relationship, and call her back.

This time around, however, the answers I’m receiving from The Oracle to my questions about my old flame, are entirely different.

The other difference, at this point in time, is that I have little interest, at best, in talking to my old flame. Any unresolved issues that I still have concerning her are pretty minor. In fact, my own sense of detachment concerning this surprises even me. Dealing with this is more of an annoyance, like a fly buzzing around my head, than anything else. There is next to no emotional content to my thoughts concerning my old flame anymore. If I had to describe my feelings for her, today, in one word, that word would be “disappointment”. And, I can live with that.

I’m actually wondering if this has more to do with her, than it does with me.
 

exomani

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On 6-Jul-08, I asked The Oracle my fifth question concerning my premonition about “Attempted Contact from Without”, as follows:

Question of 6-Jul-08:

How should/must I, as the superior man, deal with (Initial’s of Old Flame)?

Answer of 6-Jul-08:

Hexagram 14 – Ta Yu/ Possession in Great Measure, with no changing lines.

My interpretation of The Oracle’s answer of 6-Jul-08:

Up to this point, for the most part, I have shared my questions to, and my answers from, The Oracle at face value. The Oracle’s answer to this question, however, has an explicit, unequivocal meaning for me.

I freely admit that my interpretation of The Oracle’s answer is highly subjective, but, as I said in my first post, I have a history with the I Ching. Over the years, I have found that many of the answers I receive from The Oracle fall into established patterns that have very specific meanings for me. Such is the case with this particular hexagram.

To me, Hexagram 14 – Ta Yu/ Possession in Great Measure, refers specifically, and unequivocally, to my innermost circle of friends. That is, the few close friends (I can count them on two fingers.) too whom I might, and even then only under very special circumstances, be willing to bare my soul. It is for this reason that I became very agitated when The Oracle provided me with this answer to my question.
 

exomani

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On 7-Jul-08, I asked The Oracle my sixth question concerning my premonition about “Attempted Contact from Without”.

In truth, I should not have asked this question, as it had already been answered when The Oracle answered my fourth question. It just goes to illustrate that even a person familiar with the ways of the I Ching can be easily tempted to misuse The Oracle.

My only excuse for asking this question, at the time, was my agitation over the answer I had received to my fifth question. That is, in the past, The Oracle had always clearly advised me to avoid all contact with my old flame. Now, years later, to my great surprise, it is advising me to treat her like my closest friend. (I am still puzzled by this advice, at the time of this posting. But, no doubt, the reason The Oracle has given me this advice will make itself know in time. Anyway, that is my experience with what I had thought to be strange advice from The Oracle, in the past.)

Anyway, here is my question of 7-Jul-08:

I understand (Meaning the answer to my fifth question. And, in my agitation, I thought I did, at the time. I was wrong.).

Is this likely to be a renewing, or an ending?

Answer of 7-Jul-08:

Hexagram – 39 Chien/ Obstruction, with no changing lines.

My interpretation of The Oracle’s answer of 7-Jul-08:

It will be an ending.

Here, The Oracle has given me that same answer to a redundant question, which in my personal experience, is a perfectly normal thing for the I Ching to do. (And, it didn’t rebuke me for asking the same question twice, which is not a perfectly normal response from The Oracle.)

Additional comments:

On 7-Jul-08, I was very agitated. The Oracle had given me advice, on the previous day, completely at odds with its past advice for handling the same situation. And yet, the situation is still the same! That is, no renewed relationship of any kind will develop out of this. So, what’s changed? What is different this time around?

It also occurred to me that I haven’t really explained why I am making this series of posts, so here goes:

In the past, I have always destroyed my questions, answers, and notes after a cycle in my life, where I have utilized The Oracle’s advice, has run its complete course. It occurred to me, with this particular repeating cycle, that my questions, answers, and notes may actually be of some use to a serious, fellow student of the I Ching. And so, here they are. As I expect this particular cycle to complete itself in, at most, two (2) more months, it will be over soon enough.

If you, the person reading this little living, ongoing “study” have no interest in it, that’s perfectly fine. You are under no obligation, from anyone, to continue reading it.
 
D

diamanda

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In the light of the two extra readings you got, and all you've now
explained about the situation, i'd like to add the following:

Should i permit contact?
42, line 2, to 61
This was a yes, permit contact. You will no doubt benefit, and
this will have everything to do with your inner truth. Your inner
truth will benefit immensely by this situation. I think the issue
here is not that she will actually contact you soon, but rather that
your internal 'stop-go' sign will switch from 'no way, im scared' to
'it's all ok now'.

What is likely to be the end result of allowing contact?
31, lines 1,3,6, to 25
The end result will be that any remaining unexpressed sexual
attraction will turn to innocence and a pure heart.

What does she want from me?
28, line 5, to 32
There's a lot of heaviness (28) about this whole situation. It could
well be that 32 here symbolises just how long this situation has
gone on for. 28:5 shows that you/she/or both are considering a
renewal as the only way out of the heaviness, but know very well
that it would do no good.

What's in it for me? 56
You will finally be able to move on. You will finally be free from her,
she will not influence your life anymore. 56 also means 'strangers',
and loneliness. Also, in the light of 39, it could well mean she is
not going to contact you. Or that if she contacts you, you'll realise
you're just two strangers. In any case, in some manner you'll be
able to detach yourself. Perhaps there's a hint here that once
this old persisting story goes away from your mind, you'll feel a
bit lonely inside you (as in, this has been 'with you' for so long,
and it would make you feel 'alone' to not have this issue 'with you'
anymore).

From what you're saying about this issue, it seems that it still
is an issue with you; it feels like a dark spot in your life, you still
feel disappointed and frustrated, perhaps you see it as your only
personal failure in your life? You gave so much, and she just took
advantage of it all. I can understand very well that in some cases
we just cannot either forgive, or forget. But there's another
way: detachment, indifference (as in, the opposite of love is not
hate, but indifference). If i think back to my first love, the behaviour
of who was unforgivable, for me, i don't feel disappointment, as you
do, or anything else. I have not forgiven him, and i don't like this
person, but i feel nothing, not even disappointment. I do see him
by chance sometimes when i visit my hometown, and i'm just polite,
and totally indifferent in my heart. If anything, i find him and his
(still silly) ways quite amusing. Perhaps this is the point you need
to reach with your old flame? Take her out of the category of the
hurtful ice princess, and re-classify her as just a silly girl?

When she called back then, all those years ago, she might very
well have been eager to make you chase her; as you said it would
fit the description of her character. The ideal reaction you could
have had back then would be to laugh it off and be amused; but
you couldn't. And so the I Ching advised you to stay well away,
and i can see why. If you had responded, she would definitely
spot your annoyance, and it would be a small victory for her. Your
current annoyance is, again, another small victory for her. You
asking the oracle, and being preoccupied with how to avoid her
or not to avoid her, again points to the same.

How should/must I, as the superior man, deal with her? 14
I know you said this hexagram usually refers to something specific
for you personally. However, if you think about how many ways a
reading can be read in, and always according to the situation,
and also the fact that the I Ching is the Book of Changes, as in
change is the only constant in life, (all of which i'm sure you're well
aware of already!) i really think you should reconsider your view of
14 in this case.

In this case i think 14 says to you something similar as 42:2. It
shows a state of opulence, someone who has a lot of good luck,
very many things he's blessed with. He occupies a 'high place',
others respect him, look up to him, and he's got everything one
could ever ask for. And yet, in the midst of all this great good
fortune, he still remains modest and kind. So, how should you deal
with her? The same way you deal with everything and everyone
else in your life: by being modest and kind. Be the better person.
Rise above all this, and just treat her the same way you would
anyone of her disposition. I bet there are other people in your life
who have disappointed you, i bet you've met lots of people in your
life who work through power and play mind-games. How do you treat
them? How do you deal with them? Do you go about being preoccupied
for a month plus, and asking the oracle on how to respond to them? I
really doubt it.

Is this likely to be a renewing, or an ending? 39
None. Neither a renewing, nor an ending. Perhaps she won't even
contact you at all. I do get the distinct feeling that this is all about
you, and how you respond to the whole issue. She does sound
seriously flawed, and her behaviour would have hurt just about
anyone, but this is what she wants. 'The inferior person works
through power'. When someone treats us like that, they know
(even subconsciously) what they are doing. By destroying our
self-esteem, they bring themselves to the position of the only
one who can restore that self-esteem again. And thus they gain
a hold over us. The solution to this is to know our own worth, and
if anyone tries to falsely undermine it, to just laugh them off.
Again, 14. Know your worth, acknowledge all you have and your
great good fortune. Then nothing will be able to shake you.

"The Oracle had given me advice, on the previous day, completely
at odds with its past advice for handling the same situation. And
yet, the situation is still the same! That is, no renewed relationship
of any kind will develop out of this. So, what’s changed? What is
different this time around?"

The advice the oracle gave you back then, was the best thing you
could do at that time. And the advice now, is the best thing you
can do now. The situation is not the same. You now have the
different element of having placed a whole decade in between you
two. You are now ready to go onto the next stage, which is 14.
Perhaps you couldn't have managed that back then, but since the
oracle tells you to now, it means you can definitely do it now.

I understand that this is perhaps not what you wanted to hear, and
that what i said does not agree with your own interpretation, but
i assure you i'm not trying to blame you for anything, and i do mean
well. I know only too well myself the immense value of inner freedom.
Wishing you a great 14 experience!
 

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