This seems a bit scary!

justa · Aug 6, 2008

So, I went out on sunday, with the new guy and met his kids who were very sweet and it's going great! He asked if he could call when he returned from holiday next week (they went last night) He texted me a couple of times yesyerday too! Really sweet stuff!

So I'm feeling hopeful and consult the oracle asking 'How will my relationship with ... change when he returns?' I recieved Hexagram 29 lines 2/4/6, changing to 12!!!

I'm a bit shocked at this answer, am I correct in 29 being about danger? I've read it as a kind of dark night of the soul situation, about mastering demons and there being a difficult situation looming. The lines seem to say a really testing situation is on the way and it has to be faced bit by bit (2) that wise moves need to be executed (4) but then it says something about a really serious past error needs to be addressed and it will take three years to put right (6) or am I utterly misreading?

So then I asked what role am I now playing in .... life? I recieved 7 lines 1/2/3/6 changing to 22, this is about an inner battle unless I am mistaken? and 22 is about attraction on the physical I think?
Be grateful for help
xxx

dobro p · Aug 6, 2008

justa said:
So I'm feeling hopeful and consult the oracle asking 'How will my relationship with ... change when he returns?' I recieved Hexagram 29 lines 2/4/6, changing to 12!!!

I'm a bit shocked at this answer, am I correct in 29 being about danger? I've read it as a kind of dark night of the soul situation, about mastering demons and there being a difficult situation looming.

Nothing as dramatic as a dark night of the soul. 29 means you have to pass through a risky or dangerous experience, but keep in mind it can be anywhere from 1 to 10 on the danger scale. In the case you've described, I'd say it means something like: "You have to pass through the danger of blocked communication with the guy for some reason." Okay, so let's say a friend of yours says that she's going through a dangerous time of blocked communication with a guy that she's just met and likes. What advice would you give her? Could you think of anything better than the advice the Yi gives people who draw 29? "Follow the path with the heart."

justa · Aug 6, 2008

Hi Dobro,

hadn't thought of it like that! Still not sure what it means exactly, maybe it is the way I'm reading it?
What does line 6 mean exactly, I keep coming back to punishment!
xxx

willowfox · Aug 6, 2008

'How will my relationship with ... change when he returns?' I received Hexagram 29 lines 2/4/6, changing to 12!!!

Line 29.2 suggests nothing will change between you, you may want more things to happen but don't get greedy, just let the romance unfold naturally.

Line 29.4 This line shows that your relationship with him will be ticking along nicely, both of you getting on fine together.

Line 29.6 To you this may appear bad but to me it suggests that there will be no changes in your relationship with ...... Perhaps you may consider that a misfortune if you want something deeper and more passionate from this guy but listen to line 29.2 and let the affair grow in its own good time.

Hex 12 is called stagnation but stagnation means that there will be no change in your relationship, so as your relationship was going so well then it will continue in the same way, so don't worry I very much doubt that he has meet another woman while on holiday with the kids.

So, no changes, everything will be as sweet as before.

dobro p · Aug 6, 2008

justa said:
Hi Dobro,

hadn't thought of it like that! Still not sure what it means exactly, maybe it is the way I'm reading it?
What does line 6 mean exactly, I keep coming back to punishment!
xxx

29.6 is about being trapped somewhere and unable to get out for a period of time. In the case you've described, it could well be a state of mind that you're trapped in for a time - a negative or painful state.

willowfox · Aug 6, 2008

dobro said:
29.6 is about being trapped somewhere and unable to get out for a period of time. In the case you've described, it could well be a state of mind that you're trapped in for a time - a negative or painful state.

The question is a very simple one about a change in the present relationship, and after just one week I see no changes. Line 29.6 says that she will be bound with cords and ropes, shut in for around 3 years, I find this truly excellent as it means the lovey relationship will not change, it will remain very stable for the foreseeable future. She will be bound with ropes to this man, how lovely, it means they will remain as a true pair, that there is a great and unbreakable bond between them.

The question was only about change and the simple answer was that there will be no change in this very nice relationship.

justa · Aug 6, 2008

Oh! So it is positive after all?
thank you x

hollis · Aug 6, 2008

I dunno justa. I dont really like the sounds of it. Why are *kids* mentioned all the time in your postings about him. Look I may be totally wrong but that red flags me.

justa · Aug 6, 2008

Hello Hollis,
I'm not sure I understand! He's a divorced father who sees his kids as much as he can. He seems to genuinely like kids very much and gets on extremely well with them. I actually thought he was a real natural when I saw him engage with my daughter and later with his own two. It's my instinct that he includes my little girl in the invitations because he is aware I am a single mother. Though my girl has a great relationship and bond with her own dad too!
Do you think the Yi is suggesting there is something sinister about him?
Should I consult about his intentions toward my child?

hollis · Aug 6, 2008

if everything seems fine to you that is reassuring. i dont know if you had met him on the internet, which is always a bit more difficult; you have been very worried aboutt this relation from day 1,... but i am gathering that may be due to your own past relationship wounds rather than signals you are picking up from him.

willowfox · Aug 6, 2008

justa said:
Do you think the Yi is suggesting there is something sinister about him?
Should I consult about his intentions toward my child?

Don't listen to Hollis or anyone else as they are just spooking you, making you see demons where there are none, be realistic and sensible otherwise you are going to get yourself in a complete mess, there is nothing wrong with the man at all, he seems like a really nice person. His only intention towards your daughter is to make her part of the family. Don't be so paranoid.

justa · Aug 6, 2008

Hi Willowfox

yes I believe him to be a really nice man too. I also agree that he simply wants to include my daughter in everything as he fully knows that there is no one without the other. Obviousley I AM aware that sometimes very sick people target single mothers! But not in this case.
xx

jesed · Aug 6, 2008

There is a long tradition wich understand 29 as danger, and 12 as ominous. You can trust that, o you can hear what you want to hear (aka..this is a positive answer)...

BTW isn't "not listen to reality but what you want to hear" always a risk in new relation? see 29.6 the chinese text ends with XIONG wich means unauspicious. You can trust the chinese text, or you can trust this line is not to be interpreted as "bad" one.

If you got previously an answer about the relation (I decided not to search for previous post from you on this), then the danger is about not listen to the original answer.

29 is risk, more inside our own minds than in external reality. Fear???? That's why the good fortune in 29 depends on inner sincerity.

Seems to me that, after some good experiences, something is happening INSIDE you (seems like fear) that could change the relation. The advise is to act slowly, caution is needed, and follow your inner truth. Don't rush, but also don't panic... walk the middle way guided by your inner sense of reality.

Best

diamanda · Aug 6, 2008

29 means danger, as we all know. 29:6 is a very strong alarm bell. I think the I Ching
is telling you to follow the advice of 29: and 29:4, or else you'll be in trouble and the
result will be stagnation and the end of progress. Everytime you've asked about his
feelings towards you, you got lots of changing lines. Which gives the impression that
he may be a person who gets enthusiastic too quickly and too easily. He does like you,
there's no doubt about that (both from what you said, and from the answers). I get
the impression that the warnings of 29:2 and 29:4 may be referring both to him (ie
his enthusiasm may not last and may not become something more solid) and to you
(ie take things slowly and keep your eyes open so that you observe what he's really
like).

If it was only a case of 'let things develop slowly and naturally' i'd have expected you to
get a more gentle hexagram (eg a 46, a 53, even a 57, or 15), but here there's some
sort of danger, and thus the warning to be happy with small and plain things only for
the time being. One of my favourite sayings is this:

"I used to listen to people and trust they would act upon their word. Now i listen to
people, and observe if they will act upon their word". Observing is the middle way
between trusting and distrusting. Perhaps something to do with the 20 that you got
when you first met him?

willowfox · Aug 7, 2008

If you don't read or understand the question properly then you will end up going in completely the wrong direction with your answer, as many people seem to be doing.

The question here was so simple to understand but so many people have misunderstood it, it was basically a yes/no type question but many people here have read things into the answer that are just not there, going off into the realms of fantasy and nonsense.

First lesson, read and understand the question.

Second lesson, only answer what the querant wants to know, do not add things that are just not there. Reread some of your answers given then hopefully you will see what I mean, some people have added things that were nothing to do with the answer and have therefore frightened the querant. If the querant had been a real nervous Sally, then you would have ended up destroying her relationship by your very pessimistic and doom heavy answers.

bamboo · Aug 8, 2008

willowfox said:
First lesson, read and understand the question.

Second lesson, only answer what the querant wants to know, do not add things that are just not there. Reread some of your answers given then hopefully you will see what I mean, some people have added things that were nothing to do with the answer ....

The question was how the relationship will change when he returns....That's pretty clear. BUt the response was 29.2.4.6 ........(not 32). I don't see how you get to "everything continues as sweet as before".....? I don't think you can see 29 and not suspect that there will be some kind of difficult or demanding dynamic to work through. It could mean that the relationship will intensify. The beginning has been like floating in a stream, when he returns, the emotions might tip over into the rapids. Have heart , as Dobro says.

The other possibility is that because this question is about a future that is not happening now, the 29 could be justa's apprehension about his return. It always feels rather dangerous to be "falling in love" and wondering if it will last, or will it stagnate? In re to a new love interest, it can be tempting to want to quell those fears with lots of questions about "whats gonna happen?" but, I think it is best approached on a day by day basis. Your Abyss right now might be just the navigating of your fears and letting yourself enjoy the sensation of falling into new emotional territory.

willowfox · Aug 8, 2008

bamboo said:
The question was how the relationship will change when he returns....That's pretty clear. BUt the response was 29.2.4.6 ........(not 32). I don't see how you get to "everything continues as sweet as before".....? I don't think you can see 29 and not suspect that there will be some kind of difficult or demanding dynamic to work through. It could mean that the relationship will intensify. The beginning has been like floating in a stream, when he returns, the emotions might tip over into the rapids

The question was, will there be any changes, and the answer was no.

Line 29.2 tells her to reign in her desires for something deeper, don't reach for the Moon just yet, take the relationship as it comes.

Line 29.4 now this is a favourable line, there is no problem here, it simply means that he will come back home and be the same old person that he was last week, friendly, chatty and down to earth.

Line 29.6 is about someone staying in a situation where there will be no change for the foreseeable future, now remember, Justa seems to be worried whether he will come back from his holiday a changed man who no longer desires to be with her, but this line says no, all will be the same as before. He will still want her.

Now, Hex 12 is about a situation that does not change, therefore, once again, the answer is that there will be no change in him after his holiday, he will still want to be with her.

There is nothing untoward in this answer to such a simple and straight forward question. Unless you all think that he is going to tie her up, and put her down in the cellar for the next 3 years?

willowfox · Aug 8, 2008

If you take Hex 29 on its lonesome, then read the "judgement" carefully.

She is worried that he will no longer want to be with her when he returns, she has doubts in her mind that are nagging away at her, constantly from what I see, so the danger here is that she is being too negative which is very dangerous for someone in her position, a budding new romance. But if she is strong and overcomes her fears of what the future holds, that she believes with her heart and not her doubting head, then all will go well.

And hopefully she will also stop listening to all the doom and gloom merchants who see devils in every hex.

jesed · Aug 8, 2008

justa said:
So I'm feeling hopeful and consult the oracle asking 'How will my relationship with ... change when he returns?'

willowfox said:
The question was, will there be any changes

willowfox said:
First lesson, read and understand the question.

Good lesson

willowfox · Aug 8, 2008

This seems a bit scary!

I see we have a lot of comedians on this forum.

Trojina · Aug 8, 2008

willowfox said:
If you don't read or understand the question properly then you will end up going in completely the wrong direction with your answer, as many people seem to be doing.

The question here was so simple to understand but so many people have misunderstood it, it was basically a yes/no type question but many people here have read things into the answer that are just not there, going off into the realms of fantasy and nonsense.

First lesson, read and understand the question.

Second lesson, only answer what the querant wants to know, do not add things that are just not there. Reread some of your answers given then hopefully you will see what I mean, some people have added things that were nothing to do with the answer and have therefore frightened the querant. If the querant had been a real nervous Sally, then you would have ended up destroying her relationship by your very pessimistic and doom heavy answers.

You seem to be very much in the dark about what this shared readings area is for ?
To my mind its a place to share ones perceptions about a reading with others . Inevitably this involves a degree of suggestion/prediction but you seem to be under the impression that we aren't here to share our views on readings but to tell the 'querant' "only what they want to know" ? We aren't here to tell people 'only what they want to know' are we ? I'm not at all interested in that anyway. Anyhow you do tell them in no uncertain terms and as you know I've always had a problem with this where most others here seem to think 'good old willowfox'
?? You tell people they will get back together, that they will part, that they will get sicker (and how much more doom laden can you get than that !!) that they will recover....and all that nonsense...and hey if you can use the word 'nonsense' as you have above why shouldn't i eh ??

Anyhow mostly you've been left in peace, many seeming to value your contributions greatly...fair enough. But lately you go one step further in actually telling querants as you did here and elsewhere not to listen to other posters here... you try to invalidate others contributions . Well even if you are not interested in others take on this reading I am and as far as I'm concerned thats the whole point of this part of the forum, sharing . It isn't your business to say to Justa "don't listen to Hollis" Hollis views are as valid as yours.

Its worrying you are really concerned that Justa listens to you above all others, that you want the power over her decision...

Having said that the 'querants' have to take some responsibilty i guess. Its frightening how many of come open mouthed and ready and willing to do what anybody tells them, utterly disempowered, over dosing on readings and getting more and more disempowered - all the opposite of what a consultaion should be i suppose. I think sometimes it would be better this area did not exist - it seems quite harmful sometimes

Justa if you want to know if this man is safe around your children I suggest you stay alert and use your powers of discrimination rather than helplessy gaining hope from the fact that someone says 29.6 is oh so good for relationships. Frankly that is what is scary.

willowfox · Aug 8, 2008

"You seem to be very much in the dark about what this shared readings area is for"

Not really, I share my knowledge with the querant.

"It isn't your business to say to Justa "don't listen to Hollis" Hollis views are as valid as yours."

Yes indeed you are right, but when someone suggests that this man may have unhealthy leanings toward her daughter then I thought it was all getting a bit out of hand because if you look back then you will see that Justa wanted to do another reading to see if this man was a sicko. She started to believe what Hollis was suggesting.

"it seems quite harmful sometimes" Yes indeed this shared readings area can be extremely dangerous when people suggest that a happy family man, with children of his own, is possibly a closet sex predator.

"Justa if you want to know if this man is safe around your children I suggest you stay alert and use your powers of discrimination rather than helplessly gaining hope from the fact that someone says 29.6 is oh so good for relationships. Frankly that is what is scary.

Okay, you have criticized me, saying I should not do this and that, fair enough but then you go on to say my interpretation is wrong, okay, so tell us all what your take is on this particular line? I suppose that you must agree with my take on Hex 29 and then on lines 29.2 and 29.4 as you have not commented on them.

hollis · Aug 8, 2008

hollis said:
if everything seems fine to you that is reassuring.

hollis said:
i dont know if you had met him on the internet, which is always a bit more difficult;

hollis said:
you have been very worried aboutt this relation from day 1,

hollis said:
... but i am gathering that may be due to your own past relationship wounds rather than signals you are picking up from him.

I wasn't bothered by WF snip, i will be happy if this is a good relationship , & works out for Justa. I was wrong, the man is decent, fine.

hollis · Aug 8, 2008

Trojan I admire your perspicacity.

willowfox · Aug 8, 2008

hollis said:
I wasn't bothered by WF snip, i will be happy if this is a good relationship , & works out for Justa. I was wrong, the man is decent, fine.

Willowfox I thought Jesed was sincere to you about the points he quoted, and you brushed him off.

It was not meant to be a snip or snap against you at all, but unfortunately your original statement planted seeds of discomfort and doubt in Justa's mind and she started to take what you said on board, so her fears and doubts needed to be quelled straight away, that's all. So, no big issue or anything to get our knickers all twisted out of shape.

Jesed and I go back along way, and anyway he is just a joker.

hollis · Aug 8, 2008

well i adjusted my statement while you were posting yours so my quote isnt there but i can put it back.

after posting i re read the statement jesed made and then couldnt figure out the humor but then i did and i am quite tone deaf on the internet and hesitate to get overly involved in discussions as i frequently dont get the tenor of something till later.

trojan made good points to you

i think she is quite admirable in her willingness to get into the nano tangle that comes with internet distortion and comb thru it for something fair and representative for some kind of sanity.

bottom line i hope justa fares well.

Trojina · Aug 8, 2008

willowfox said:
"

Okay, you have criticized me, saying I should not do this and that, fair enough but then you go on to say my interpretation is wrong, okay, so tell us all what your take is on this particular line? I suppose that you must agree with my take on Hex 29 and then on lines 29.2 and 29.4 as you have not commented on them.

Wfox i don't think i'd get involved in this reading as i think Justa would be way better off putting away the I Ching and using her common sense - since she seems to have no idea what its about and that puts her in a very vulnerable position in regards to others advice - which is her choice i suppose. But 29,6 meaning all will be well between them ? The danger of 29 could be her repeating old patterns etc i wouldn't know - i just can't see how you'd get to such a clear conclusion that it was a good omen for her.

Anyway now you explained i see more where you were coming from. You are right in your reply to Hollis it isn't something we should "get our knickers all twisted out of shape for" :rofl:

still who knows Hollis could be right, its another view for Justa to take into account and so on.

Trojina · Aug 8, 2008

Hollis i wasn't posting to defend your honour it was just an accumulation of things in how Wfox was dealing with the thread and possibly other threads. I know you can take care of yourself

hollis · Aug 8, 2008

jesed · Aug 8, 2008

Hollis

It wasn't a joke.

Justa didn't ask IF THERE WOULD BE CHANGES; Justa asked "HOW WOULD BE THE CHANGES".
Therefore, the question wasn't a yes/no question, as WF said it was.

29.6 is not "nothing would change; if the situation is good now, it will remain good after"; the text is clear when it includes the omen "misfortune". Therefore, 29.6 is a warning, as Justa interpreted.

It is not not a joke when someone needs to twist both the querent's question and the text, in order to avoid recognize an error.

This seems a bit scary!

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