Hello,

My last post on the subject of my living situation was definite - I was going to look for somewhere else and leave the damaging influence of my current housemates. But now once again my head is floating in the middle and I don't know what the right way is, what is good and true in the situation. Diamanda and Willowfox - you have represented the opposing voices in my head which are back again.

Basically things came to a head tonight. I told my housemate for definite that I was looking for somewhere else (giving a practical rather than personal reason) and went for a house viewing (the place wasn't suitable).

When I returned home, they had all been drinking, and were asking me why etc etc. One was being quite pushy about something which pushed me over the edge and on came the water-works - full force. Something I really didn't want to happen as once I start they can keep coming.... so it all came out. All the hurt I have been feeling over the past weeks (and discussed in detail here) came out and yes, I pointed fingers.

But they said they were completely unawares, that the face pulling meant nothing. They said they thought I hadn't been making enough effort to go out etc but that they wanted to live with me and counted me as a friend etc.. I admitted that I had been keeping to myself recently which hasn't helped any sort of bonding, but that was because I felt they didn't want me around and that I didn't belong to, what I have come to see, as an already formed group, since they treated me badly (at least that's how I perceived things when they ignored me and pulled faces behind my back and generally put me down etc.. though maybe that was All jest and I just don't operate like they do...)

Anyway, they were mainly comforting me etc, and I felt bad for bringing down their night as they were going out. So I went to my room. Perhaps I wasn't willing to accept their assurances but one guy, who is well meaning but not good when drunk, shouted (so I could hear) thanks for ruining the night! So I came out siting that as an example of their nastiness, then another got angry that I'd brought in a dark cloud. Believe me I did not want it to happen this way... anyway it ended up with one of them saying that tomorrow, when sober we will talk about the whole thing and sort it out.... they seemed to want to salvage the situation and make it better and re-assure me (which I feel bad about making them feel they need to do...)

Now, from their words I should trust them. But I feel like they've twisted everything, made it out to be my fault for not going out etc (though we haven't been here long and I have been working anti-social hours! - and should I really have to keep proving myself a worthy housemate/ friend by going where they want all the time?? and they didn't admit to doing anything wrong.. perhaps in their minds they didn't. I'll admit that I haven't made it easy for them, perhaps my over-sensitivity has meant I now shut off their perhaps genuine advances. I mean, I was shocked that it happened, because I really thought they'd be relieved to hear I was going but they seemed to take it as a personal attack or rejection.. Perhaps I have been intolerant and underestimated their regard for me.. everyone's different. I feel very confused. What I believed about them keeps going in and out the window.

I asked the Yi, (once I'd calmed down) After this showdown what do I do? Can it recover?

I received 39 Obstruction unchanging.

I think, it appears to be saying, that I should re-unite with them (though are they the 'friends of like mind'? (perhaps they could be on some level.. but after all this?) and also, admit that some of the blame of what's happened lies within me and my insecurities - perhaps it was a sel'f-fulfilling prophecy as I was worried about this from the word go.. but then I can't imagine this happening with people I am close to...

But I also am afraid that perhaps they are twisting it, to make themselves look good and feel better? Because I know how I felt, and that they were being bitchy, it seemed to me... but perhaps it is misunderstanding? I know they are well meaning overall - but I'm sure what happened counts as bullying, though of course they won't admit it. And Diamanda, I must bear in mind your advice on knowing when to walk away from hurtful people... but maybe they really do care and I ballooned it into a personal attack when it was just play.... So confused, and wondering if the relations can recover, again, perhaps this has cleared the air? But leopards don't change their spots, and perhaps it's a simple case of incompatibility? And perhaps I have now made it me against them?



Thanks

Wow! This saga is just like Coronation street or Eastenders as it never seems to end.

Like I said before, much of the problem is actually you, so it is no good to put all the blame on the others, you need to back off, change your attitude, stop making yourself into the fall guy. Once you understand that you are the flea on the dog, then you will be able to discuss the situation in a sensible matter of fact way with the others with no more emotional outbursts. But I also sense a general lack of maturity in your household.

Ahem - flea on the dog means what exactly? That I am worse than them? Or my insecurities are feeding off their characters? Or at least being exasperated... I asked for none of this - I didn't think it would happen. I knew they were the type of people that tease etc, if you're weird or different but not nasty. What I have experienced has been nasty but now they are turning it around. You're saying I should ignore my feelings? Perhaps if I was a different character this wouldn't have happened.. Does Obstruction then say to you, to plough on here, (and hope it doesn't happen again ) or that the road is now in fact blocked and irrepairable because of the uproar? I do think Willowfox, that we are quite different and I am less inclined to want to listen to you as you seem on the offensive alot, and irritated by this whole thing which has had a deep effect on me.. If that means you think me ungrateful then fine, I'm not, I just don't want to follow the advice of someone who is suggesting I brought this all on myself, just because I haven't sacrificed myself for the crowd here... I feel like I haven't been accepted as myself, and didn't they confirm that last night, though disguised by -' it's all in your head'.. I don't want it to be the case but I can't help but feel it's mind games.

What I meant by flea on the dog, is that when you move, they scratch or come to life.

Also, if you think that I am on the offensive, then you are both right and wrong. First I am giving you answers and advice which you don't really listen to anyway, then I was trying to push you to be independent and to stand up for yourself in a non paranoid, mature fashion but obviously that seems to be beyond your capabilities. You say that you don't want to listen to me but as far as I can see you have never listened anyway. So, really nothing much for to say anyway, is there, as this will go on for ages.

Ah, but you did bring it down upon yourself by freewill, you chose to live in this home for juveniles, didn't you?

Yes, indeed we are quite different people.

As for Hex 39, the situation is salvageable if you make the effort. Don't you understand you can learn something important from this if you could only see it but you are like a mole, scrambling around in your hole blind because you don't want to see or listen. You can run but you can't hide from life.

Ok - so you're saying they are pushing me to toughen up - stand up for myself - feel and express my anger in a healthier way? But it's just not me - why should I fight when there is Nothing to fight about?

I read this - Lise's interpretation of 39 which got me thinking that I should leave this negativity (there is also a line in there about wasting time, even a lifetime, on not taking a chance on the good, when you are so habitualised by things being bad, but then maybe as you say I should face it, as this is our world and there's no escaping it for anyone...

Anyway what I read of 39 which struck me was this:

'Leaving them is frightening; you will be alone, without protection, shelter or comfort.
But if you do leave them, you will find protection, shelter and comfort within yourself, and after a while also around yourself. Make your own shelter and you will find shelter. Make place for friends and you will find friends.
Life is not what life is; life is what you make it.'

But it's going to require conviction which I sorely lack. I just don't want to do this if I will be offending people who didn't mean to hurt me... but maybe they're just making it out that it's me - to protect their own consciences. I just can't identify them as people I should be with, to learn to get along, or that I should protect myself by cutting ties. You think I should stay others think I should go. And I know what you're going to say - Make up your own mind! You're the one that it's going to affect.. maybe I'm creating drama, making enemies unneccessarily..or maybe this is just a product of choosing to pursue the wrong friends, juveniles as you said - so shouldn't I leave them then? Maybe I too much want to get along with, and see the good in everyone. A definite flaw, as is my lack of talent in expressing anger or hurt productively...

Were you born in Bristol? I have been there quite a few times, never liked the place.

Well, basically I have reached a dead end here, what else is there to say.

Now, it is entirely down to you what you are going to do, you can leave today, when you finally get another place, you can hang in there, I don't know.

See you, I'm off to another forum.

No I wasn't.

Was that supposed to be an insult?

(I don't expect a reply)

Em Ching I'm wondering if you have spoken about all this to others ? To your parents, friends or your counselor ? I think you said you had a counsellor. Its just theres been so many threads on this already i can't see what more there is to say. It comes down to 2 choices which noone can make for you as you know. So your problem really isn't the folks you live with, annoying as they are but your inability to make a decision or your discomfort with making a decision. Thats not a criticism by the way it can be just a symtom of not being in such a good place mentally, you know depression and so on. Seems to me whats driving you nuts is the fact you can't make a decision.

Anyhow to recap I think the vast majority of reading advice and opinions on all the threads about this were if you want to leave do so in your own time so you can get somewhere better,no rush, no rash moves and while you look around take the temperature of the situation and if it feels okay maybe you'll stay. And I think all thats mainly common sense isn't it. (I expect I'll be corrected if the majority of answers weren't like that )

Anyway just wondering if real live talking this out might help you more than posting readings ? If you have talked about to others what was their advice...you don't have to say of course I'm just interested (call it nosey if you like ). All this going on in your head sounds a bit like slow torture to me, not fun at all. Anyhow i think the torture is now about the decision process itself rather than the people in the house

em ching said:

No I wasn't.

Was that supposed to be an insult?

(I don't expect a reply)

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You will get a reply.

No not insult, I was just wondering why a sensitive soul like yourself would chose to live in a dump like Bristol, that's all. As I meet some really (I will leave this word blank as to not offend anyone) people when I passed through there.

But enough of the chit chat, have you finally come to a decision as to what you are going to do?

I forgot, I remember that we advised you to keep your mouth closed about leaving, certainly until you found a better place.
But what did you do, you went straight and blurted it out to the others, so what is the point of giving you any advice when you simply ignore it.

This is an interesting one. Where does the "Bristol" thing comes from? First mention was by WFox and it appears completely out of the blue... Curious.

Em Ching wrote it in her 'location' where you have put New Jersey but shes now deleted it. No mystery there

Ah... Thanks for clarifying.:bows:

willowfox said:

You will get a reply.

No not insult, I was just wondering why a sensitive soul like yourself would chose to live in a dump like Bristol, that's all. As I meet some really (I will leave this word blank as to not offend anyone) people when I passed through there.

But enough of the chit chat, have you finally come to a decision as to what you are going to do?

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You really are an idiot sometimes. Infact sometimes I really wish you would go play with peoples lives on some other forum like you keep threatening.

willowfox said:

I forgot, I remember that we advised you to keep your mouth closed about leaving, certainly until you found a better place.
But what did you do, you went straight and blurted it out to the others, so what is the point of giving you any advice when you simply ignore it.

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You make it sound like we are a bunch of thugs. Why be so nasty anyway. She already worries over doing the wrong thing all the time and you just make it worse. Just ignore it if it drives you so nuts.

trojan said:

You really are an idiot sometimes. Infact sometimes I really wish you would go play with peoples lives on some other forum like you keep threatening.

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How else are we going to make this girl get her act together, she has been rambling on about this issue for what seems like months and still there is no end in sight. I am just trying to get her to make a decision and actually stick by it, and not go back to flip flopping yet again. This situation is really very unimportant in the bigger scheme of things, if she can't sort this out then what is going to happen when she is faced with a major life decision?

And for the record I do stuff on another forum, so it is not a treat but a fact.

trojan said:

You make it sound like we are a bunch of thugs. Why be so nasty anyway. She already worries over doing the wrong thing all the time and you just make it worse. Just ignore it if it drives you so nuts.

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I am not being nasty, she is acting like some kid in school, and really needs to be shown where she is going wrong. Sometimes buttons have to be pushed if you want to see results.

Willowfox may have her tactics, but please...in this thread, this young girl is pulling all of our chains.

and you are NOT, EmChing ,looking at yourself, as you have been advised....... you see yourself as a victim of "mean people" - both here and in your living situation- and this wont end until you take some responsibility for what you create in your life. The way you continually justify your self-centered victim state is appalling.......no insight seems to seep through. sorry for you.

Hi EC,

This is also from LiSe's site. Maybe it help you to understand hex 39 .

Hexagram 39, Limping:
If you are struggling on, not making much progress and not feeling good about it, then ask yourself if you are following the right trail. Often it is very hard to admit it, or even to see it, that one pursues the wrong goal. One is victim of one's wishes, convictions, ideals or maybe even someone else's ideas.
Make yourself free again by having the guts to take a good look at your situation. Send your greedy inner child for a while to play in the backyard, for usually it is him who makes you hold on to the wrong things. And send your family background and your acquaintances with him, because they do often the same thing. Try to realize yourself why you cannot let go.
Everybody who has ever had a depression will know the feeling which is depicted by this hexagram's name: an overwhelming desire to creep away from everything, in a hole, in his bed, or deep in his own mind. The depression can be caused by an outward adversity or by an inner lack of life-energy. The most notable symptoms are cold feet and powerless limbs.

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Maybe i'm wrong but i see a correlation of your home situation and "friends" with your "home" and how you treat yourself. Maybe this is why you hestitate to move.
Maria

Hi em_ching.

I like reading your paragraphs, and you cover all the bases, pro and con. The argument in your head is made quite audible to whomever is listening. I like it. You have an analytical mind, but one which argues with itself a lot. 39 isn't about beating yourself up, but it does reverse the thrust back upon yourself. Apparently the Yi doesn't have an opinion of whether you should stay or move. It is more concerned that you stay connected to what is good for you, first within yourself. But you are your own best judge for that.

If you don't mind me asking, are you a gemini/sagittarius?

Bruce

id bet my bottom dollar she has LOTS of scorpio in her chart. feeling persecuted, feeling vindictive, feeling like the world is out to get her

Thank you Bamboo for seeing what I am seeing this girl to be, I tried to tell her when she pulled Hex 39 but would she listen, oh no.

But Trojan has to act like a blind white knight.

I see she has got us all out of our caves now, and we seem to be actually taking sides against each other, how utterly incredible.

meng said:

If you don't mind me asking, are you a gemini/sagittarius?

Bruce

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It appears she's "Bristolian"...

Okay time for defence

willowfox said:

As I meet some really (I will leave this word blank as to not offend anyone) people when I passed through there.

Funny you should say that someone else recently said the same sort of thing to me. Though it is a fantastically creative place too, it does seem to attract the unbalanced.

Ps I am not Bristolian by birth...

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Its my personal opinion that both Bamboo and Wfox miss the point. Its clear now its not the situation thats the problem but the decision making process itself. When a decsion becomes almost obsessive like it has here then I tend to see it as symptomatic of being in not such a good place mentally,maybe depression or something.

Labelling it 'victim mentality' only goes so far and has blame attached to it. All the new agers love to accuse anyone ill or suffering of having 'victim mentality' its their way of keeping seperate and safe from it . I'm not saying you,Bamboo are one of these extreme types but i come accross those ideas so often...boy they get to the stage where they say anyone suffering has 'victim mentality'.

I do understand the exasperation. I don't think theres any point in Em Ching asking for further interpretations of this issue here. I think it might help her more just to talk to someone about it. To be blunt I think she may be getting ill with depression or something so I can't see how being really disparaging abouth her will help. And I'm not meaning to be patronising saying you may be getting depression Em Ching I just hope you recognise when you need help as opposed to thinking changing the situation will change everything for you.

Doesn't everyone know that extreme difficulty and anxiety over reaching fairly simple decisions may be a symptom of depressive illness ??? I'm not saying that is the case, how would I know, I'm just aware of it as a possibility.

.

Trojan don't go into "victim mentally" about anything I say to others. When you have been to that particular city and interacted with the locals as I have done then you will understand what I am rambling on about here.

I see that you have just edited out your remarks about me insulting others and that you were fed up with it and me.

Caused a bit of a row here

If you'd like to comment on your encounters here in this City that'd be interesting but no need to get into it, I can imagine.

To defend myself here: 'I forgot, I remember that we advised you to keep your mouth closed about leaving, certainly until you found a better place.'

I was, but it turned out one of the housemates friends was interested in living here, but they woudn't ask him unless I was sure and as this would make things easier for them and me to have a friend in, so I thought I should be clear. I also thought they'd appreciate a relief from the tense atmosphere and I maintained my reasons were practical, but they pushed me, and it all came out unfortunately.

Bamboo, I am taking the insight on board. I find it very interesting the way the Iching can spark so much debate and input of wisdom from everyone here, but yeah I guess I am not in a strong enough mental state to grasp the advice that's best for me and true to the situation.

Nope - How did you not guess I'm a Libra!!! (for my sins) which perhaps explains trying to balance everything out, staying middle ground until it's too late... then I also have aries ascendant and moon, which means I cannot pick my moments to be impulsive, and when I am fiery it becomes overshadowed by emotion (moon influence perhaps) and I.. cry

em ching said:

Nope - How did you not guess I'm a Libra!!!

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Aha!! "Libra" and "Bristol" share four letters. No wonder...