Are some people a little too flakey to mess with occult things?

joezoe · Jan 9, 2009

It seems to me allot of people are kind of living in a controlled state of insanity.These people wont be able to avoid "magical thinking" and they believe anything you tell them as long as you seduce them with orientalism wear an orange robe and tell them from the top of a mountain or something using really nice words like harmony and of course it helps if one is a cute wise looking old brown person.You know the kind of **** people like tom cruise go in for

.Pretty much they are the type to fall for "argumentum ad verecundiam"the appeal to authority. Since these people usually make good targets for mind slayers and cult leaders in general :rant:

Do you think it is wise for them to temp delusion :rofl:

by going around like seekers of something they can be true believers in:bows:?And dose the internet make it too easy for them to get sucked into a fantasy world in general?
To top it off these types gay everything up

turning spirituality in general into some sort of a self help massage.
I wonder if there are any serious students anywhere went it comes to things that have been deemed Pseudoscience,and if there are even actual places of knowledge that do not represent some sort of cult technology.: :brickwall:

javalava · Jan 9, 2009

That post had quite lot of colour, joezoe, and it touches on some interesting issues. However, there seem to be undercurrents to your thinking that I don't really follow.

Was there anything in particular that prompted what you said?

joezoe · Jan 9, 2009

javalava said:
That post had quite lot of colour, joezoe, and it touches on some interesting issues. However, there seem to be undercurrents to your thinking that I don't really follow.

Was there anything in particular that prompted what you said?

Well I was just throwing something out there kind of taking the pulse of the room.

Sparhawk · Jan 9, 2009

joezoe said:
Well I was just throwing something out there kind of taking the pulse of the room.

I think the Dr. is in need of a check-up...

joezoe · Jan 9, 2009

Maybe a good question would be has anyone noticed any of these type of vibes around the subject of the I Ching on the net?

joezoe · Jan 9, 2009

sparhawk said:
I think the Dr. is in need of a check-up...

what does that mean spar hawk, that is a little cryptic could you be more specific? I might get the impression that it is some kind of passive aggressive call to a gang up job.And that would be the kind of merntality I would be trying to avoid in something I take seriously like yi research.

joezoe · Jan 9, 2009

people in a group like that I wouldn't peg as serious

Sparhawk · Jan 9, 2009

joezoe said:
what does that mean spar hawk, that is a little cryptic could you be more specific? I might get the impression that it is some kind of passive aggressive call to a gang up job.And that would be the kind of merntality I would be trying to avoid in something I take seriously like yi research.

See, there you are wrong. I'm a gang of ONE; no need to call for help and there's nothing passive about my approach.

Now, I've encountered very, very few people that "takes Yi research," as you put it, as seriously as I do. Because of that, I can tell you that some of your premises and "tests" are right down hilarious and denotes a complete and basic misunderstanding of what the Yijing is. If anyone is tested in "testing" the Yi, it is the tester.

As for ridiculing and belittling other's peoples beliefs, as you have done above, regardless of how foreign and strange they look to others outside of their circle, it only shows the kind of intolerance that is at the root of most conflicts, from the individual level to the level of nations. So, don't take my "pulse" as I haven't lent you my arm to do so.

joezoe · Jan 9, 2009

sparhawk said:
See, there you are wrong. I'm a gang of ONE; no need to call for help and there's nothing passive about my approach.

Now, I've encountered very, very few people that "takes Yi research," as you put it, as seriously as I do. Because of that, I can tell you that some of your premises and "tests" are right down hilarious and denotes a complete and basic misunderstanding of what the Yijing is. If anyone is tested in "testing" the Yi, it is the tester. (Do you have an example or are you just talking out your ass?)

As for ridiculing and belittling other's peoples beliefs, as you have done above, regardless of how foreign and strange they look to others outside of their circle, it only shows the kind of intolerance that is at the root of most conflicts, from the individual level to the level of nations. So, don't take my "pulse" as I haven't lent you my arm to do so.(who] have I belittled that you take such exception too????Cult victims?

Now, I've encountered very, very few people that "takes Yi research," as you put it, as seriously as I do. Because of that, I can tell you that some of your premises and "tests" are right down hilarious and denotes a complete and basic misunderstanding of what the Yijing is. If anyone is tested in "testing" the Yi, it is the tester. (Do you have an example or are you just talking out your ass?)

As for ridiculing and belittling other's peoples beliefs, as you have done above, regardless of how foreign and strange they look to others outside of their circle, it only shows the kind of intolerance that is at the root of most conflicts, from the individual level to the level of nations. So, don't take my "pulse" as I haven't lent you my arm to do so.(who have I belittled that you take such exception about????Cult victims?

joezoe · Jan 9, 2009

You have lent me your arm.I am getting very typical internet ****wad coven readings from the pulse in this room.:bows:

Sparhawk · Jan 9, 2009

joezoe said:
who have I belittled that you take such exception too????Cult victims?

Your words, not mine:

You know the kind of **** people like tom cruise go in for.Pretty much they are the type to fall for "argumentum ad verecundiam"the appeal to authority. Since these people usually make good targets for mind slayers and cult leaders in general Do you think it is wise for them to temp delusion by going around like seekers of something they can be true believers in?And dose the internet make it too easy for them to get sucked into a fantasy world in general?

Calling others S***, regardless of their notoriety and fame, only because they have a belief that's foreign to you, is, in my book, right down intolerant. And mind you, I've no sympathy for Scientology nor Tom Cruise himself. I do, however, take exception when third parties criticize other's paths in life when those paths, right or wrong, are taken in the name of spiritual evolution and, perhaps, enlightenment.

Sparhawk · Jan 9, 2009

joezoe said:
(Do you have an example or are you just talking out your ass?)

Here, this was your fart, not mine.

joezoe · Jan 9, 2009

I like this part it is interesting to me,the rest is worthless.You say"regardless of how foreign and strange they look to others outside of their circle, it only shows the kind of intolerance ......ect ect yadda yadda"You seem to be defending little outsider circles of strange activity I guess.Are you attracted to that kind of interaction in general?

joezoe · Jan 9, 2009

sparhawk said:
Your words, not mine:

You know the kind of **** people like tom cruise go in for.Pretty much they are the type to fall for "argumentum ad verecundiam"the appeal to authority. Since these people usually make good targets for mind slayers and cult leaders in general Do you think it is wise for them to temp delusion by going around like seekers of something they can be true believers in?And dose the internet make it too easy for them to get sucked into a fantasy world in general?

Calling others S***, regardless of their notoriety and fame, only because they have a belief that's foreign to you, is, in my book, right down intolerant. And mind you, I've no sympathy for Scientology nor Tom Cruise himself. I do, however, take exception when third parties criticize other's paths in life when those paths, right or wrong, are taken in the name of spiritual evolution and, perhaps, enlightenment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9jqD_8IQpM

joezoe · Jan 9, 2009

here check this one out the full tom cruise rant by itself,I just think its funny you would attack me because I said the kind of **** tom cruise goes in for in hind sight to this display http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O2_rZIgrQI

Sparhawk · Jan 9, 2009

joezoe said:
You seem to be defending little outsider circles of strange activity I guess.Are you attracted to that kind of interaction in general?

Are you consciously obtuse or is it a genetic predisposition? I think that "all" circles, large or small, are worth defending if they are taken, rightly or wrongly by their subjects, in the hope of spiritually advancing oneself. That goes for anybody that takes such paths. I'm not to judge them nor belittle them.

joezoe · Jan 10, 2009

sparhawk said:
Here, this was your fart, not mine.

"Can anyone help me to refine this query,or instruct me in a more sound method of utilizing the ching?"I didn't see you chiming in with any brilliant insights smart ass.

joezoe · Jan 10, 2009

sparhawk said:
Are you consciously obtuse or is it a genetic predisposition? I think that "all" circles, large or small, are worth defending if they are taken, rightly or wrongly by their subjects, in the hope of spiritually advancing oneself. That goes for anybody that takes such paths. I'm not to judge them nor belittle them.

Really well you think nothing of consistently answering me with personal attacks instead of just talking.Would you call that intolerant or spiritually advanced?

Sparhawk · Jan 10, 2009

joezoe said:
"Can anyone help me to refine this query,or instruct me in a more sound method of utilizing the ching?"I didn't see you chiming in with any brilliant insights smart ass.

Here, spend some change and get this book. It is a translation of something Zhu xi wrote back in the Song Dynasty. After you get some basic education, even if you don't agree with it, come back and we might have some common ground. In the meantime, I suggest you cease to play with things that are still beyond your comprehension.

joezoe · Jan 10, 2009

thanks for the book although I don't agree with the attitude your giving me or your point in general you may have something useful in any case.:bows:

joezoe · Jan 10, 2009

I guess the problem your seeing with this is that I designated yin and yang as probable no and possible yes but there is no actual prescribed theory that I have ever heard of for getting a straight yes or no answer nor is there an outlined theory concerning what the correct parameters of chance odds need to be according to the design of the king wen arrangement.So It is an appeal to tradition your using as an argument and that is a logical fallacy sparhawk.I was merely trying an experimental/exploratory technique which is what this room happens to be about anyway and you come at me with such intolerance. :rant:

I just want you to know that there are allot of decaffeinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing.

lucia · Jan 10, 2009

joezoe said:
rant:I just want you to know that there are allot of decaffeinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing.

yeah and decaffeinated anythings are riddled with highly toxic chemicals in the process.

me, I prefer the so-called real thing whether it's people or products......

Lucia

martin · Jan 10, 2009

sparhawk said:
Now, I've encountered very, very few people that "takes Yi research," as you put it, as seriously as I do. Because of that, I can tell you that some of your premises and "tests" are right down hilarious and denotes a complete and basic misunderstanding of what the Yijing is. If anyone is tested in "testing" the Yi, it is the tester.

That might be true, but I don't see any harm in a test like the one that Joezoe performed (http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=7235).
In fact such tests are valuable. Depending on the result we learn something about the Yi, how it works, and how and when (for wich questions) to use it.

As far as I know nobody ever won a big prize in a lottery with the help of the Yi, so okay, perhaps it's better not to use it for that purpose then.

As for ridiculing and belittling other's peoples beliefs, as you have done above, regardless of how foreign and strange they look to others outside of their circle, it only shows the kind of intolerance that is at the root of most conflicts, from the individual level to the level of nations. So, don't take my "pulse" as I haven't lent you my arm to do so.

Are you not a little bit exaggerating now?

I mean, we all know that there is a lot of superficial low quality stuff that is called "spiritual" but really doesn't deserve to be called that.
Is it intolerant to point that out? I think it needs to be said.

meng · Jan 10, 2009

Hi joezoe,

Flaky is wonderful in a pie crust and dinner biscuits.

By occult I assume you refer to secret or hidden knowledge? Way I see it, fervent members of main stream religions are potentially no less flaky than the cyber-witch-reiki healers. I've found that in any group, big or small, there are some who are well grounded (i.e. not flaky) and some who tend to flit about with wherever the wind is blowing them. But these are never absolutes, because to be 100% grounded would make one a stick in the mud, or sword in a rock. It would take intervention to save that soul! Being too grounded isn't a good thing. Being only flaky isn't a good thing either. But being grounded and flaky, I think that's good in any case.

kdedeaux4 · Jan 10, 2009

"Being only flaky isn't a good thing either. But being grounded and flaky, I think that's good in any case.[/QUOTE]

Meng...I like the way you think

mary f · Jan 10, 2009

Hope I`ll never see so much intolerance, choler, ethnocentrism all together again.

arableparable · Jan 10, 2009

UNEQUIVETABLY.........................YES,YES AND YES AGAIN.BUT, AS YOU KNOW.....The way has no signs or dividing lines with very few rules to guide.Mental illness does not mean one can not learn with care.The credo of the Tao'ist nun or munk is,"ride the tiger until it can no longer ride you".

Sparhawk · Jan 10, 2009

Come on, Martin, you should know me better than that. Not ony from Clarity but from being a former fellow Premie of the 70's vintage. Is there an age threshold we cross when we start seeing more faults in others' convictions and spiritual explorations than in our own and find it OK, or ignore it, when others degrade or belittle them in public?

martin said:
That might be true, but I don't see any harm in a test like the one that Joezoe performed (http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=7235).
In fact such tests are valuable. Depending on the result we learn something about the Yi, how it works, and how and when (for wich questions) to use it.

I doubt you, Martin, where I think your are in your studies of the Yi, would find anything valuable in such games. But, hey, if you do find value in it, it is your path to take. I only pointed to that thread because Joezoe, colorfully, asked me "(Do you have an example or are you just talking out your ass?)" So, garbage in/garbage out. Still, that thread is buried in the Shared Readings section with no takers. If you found it useful, perhaps you would like to add to it and revive it. Who knows, maybe it becomes really interesting and meaningful.

As far as I know nobody ever won a big prize in a lottery with the help of the Yi, so okay, perhaps it's better not to use it for that purpose then.

Good disclaimer! On that regard, I would say that, perhaps, it is because lottery games depend on chance and randomness almost entirely and the Yi answers aren't really "chance or random," at least not in the sense the other is. Have you followed those that use the Yijing to time the market and DO WELL at it? Not lottery but real moneymakers.

Are you not a little bit exaggerating now? I mean, we all know that there is a lot of superficial low quality stuff that is called "spiritual" but really doesn't deserve to be called that.
Is it intolerant to point that out? I think it needs to be said.

Martin, re-read the first post in this thread. One thing is to discuss the merits--or lack thereof--of this or that belief. We all do it, consciously and otherwise. My issue is with calling them "****" from the very get-go and expect others to fall right behind, in single line, and gang-bash them. That's no way to start a serious conversation about any belief.

Sparhawk · Jan 10, 2009

As for Joezoe, out of respect for the forum and for the hostess, I'll stop addressing you in this thread. If want to continue your colorful language and discuss "fallacies," I am readily available outside Clarity.

martin · Jan 10, 2009

sparhawk said:
Martin, re-read the first post in this thread. One thing is to discuss the merits--or lack thereof--of this or that belief. We all do it, consciously and otherwise. My issue is with calling them "****" from the very get-go and expect others to fall right behind, in single line, and gang-bash them. That's no way to start a serious conversation about any belief.

Gang-bashing?!

Are we reading the same post?
Well, I guess I'm too much used to the "colorful" language on some other fora?
Compared to that Joezoe's post is very mild!

Are some people a little too flakey to mess with occult things?

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