Hi all

I keep getting hex 14 a lot lately (with various changing lines and unchanging). I've browsed the threads in this forum and I've noticed that people have been saying that they tend to get it at times when they don't feel "rich" in any way. Precisely my feeling. If I have any "great possessions", I'm not aware of them. Quite the contrary I'd say.

So, what's the deal with hex 14? Is the hexagram meant to act on the enquirer as an insight or something like that? Is it something like, "See the bigger picture" or "see beneath the surface of things", you possess something great (whatever that may be in each particular case)?

And, finally, has anyone found out in the end that the Yi was right about it? I'm sure the Yi is right, no doubts about this. Still, I wonder...

el_2

P.S. I'm particularly intrigued by Chris Lofting's "direction-setting from the centre" explanation. I think it helps me better understand what the hexagram is about.

We have more than we think we have - not because we "own" it (or it owns us!) - but because we are part of the All, of the One - we are connected to all things: this realisation allows us to reach that centre from which to discover the right direction to take at any one time in order to fulfil our daily needs - physical and spiritual needs considered as one. It's not unlike the "consider the lilies in the field" philosophy - except that quote always makes me think of Monty Python

The difference between owning and having what we need is the same difference as between the man who counted stars all day because he thought he owned them, and The Little Prince who simply accepted all, and though he owned nothing, found out that he was infinitely rich in the love of his rose and of the friends he met on the way.

Yes, I've seen that this hexagram is not so much (or not necessarily) about material possessions (although this can't be excluded).

But why get this hexagram when not already feeling this way. Actually, when feeling anything but... Perhaps this is a way for the Yi to recommend a change of perspective. That what you don't actually see is your "great possession" (whatever that may be).

I like it, Sophie, when people in this forum write in such an inspiring way as you have done here, it aids my imagination since this kind of writing is so evocative. I feel that hexagrams are not only about ideas for the rational mind to process but also about images. There's a lot of creative and intuitive work that has to go into understanding and interpreting. This makes interpretation hard but also fascinating.

Still, the "abundance" the hexagram is referring to seems so elusive.

el_2

Thank you

I also think 14 concerns both spiritual and material wealth - but not separated from each other and not seen from the perspective of accumulation, competition or want.

As for why we receive it when we are feeling poor (I also have that experience!) - yes, I agree that the Yi is giving us advice. Sometimes it is telling us that better times are on their way and we can help them along by appreciating what we already have today - and trust that what else we need and value will return.

Probably because it's not that easy to do the Yi gives us a nudge now and then

Totally agree with everything said here. It does seem illusive. Most of the time it feels to me like I've been given an arm around the shoulder pep talk by a wealthy and wise uncle.

Yes, I get this feeling too with this hexagram

Usually spend my time lurking around the reading circle so apologies for randomly butting in here . I just thought it might be helpful to contribute because I had an experience around 14 last year.

I was feeling exactly as you describe - that you have anything but the possession in great measure at the time. It was in relation to something I had been giving a lot of consideration to, but was unsure about going through with doing it. I felt like this gesture was a shot to nothing, and then to get 14 in relation to it was at first very exciting.

However, after the initial feeling that success was guaranteed 14 caused me to really soul search. It pointed out that a great person can give somewhat unconditionally, whereas a smaller person is just not able to. It caused me to reflect on whether I really could do what I planned to do unconditionally. I guess the possession in great measure was not just a green light to go for it and act on what I had been planning. It was more of a question, like 'can you really do this as unconditionally as you're making out?'. It caused me to ask myself if I had the possession in great measure, if I was that superior person. That stopped me in my tracks .

So I think what I'm saying is that in my experience, 14 is a wonderful hexagram to receive. However, it's not of the 'go for it, all systems go' kind. Not that I think there are any of them. But I think that the success promised by it are ones that are achievable through that soul-searching, that desire to be the greater person and to act from there.

Hope that helps

Applegirl

you can only give from the stockpile of what you have. so what have you been giving? if you can think of nothing start with the fact that you are giving CO2 everytime you exhale. plants need that to survive and in thanks give back oxygen. so what else are you giving?

Glad to hear it's not only me who receives 14 when i'm feeling anything but.
I've noticed time and time again how it feels like a 'consolation' hexagram,
as in, 'you're still fine', 'you still have many great qualities, despite whatever
feels so bad now'. It's a really funny thing, only the other day i received a 14,
and i asked straight after, for the first time, 'is this meant as consolation?',
and i got a straight 6, which (for me at least) means no!

"So I think what I'm saying is that in my experience, 14 is a wonderful hexagram to receive. However, it's not of the 'go for it, all systems go' kind. Not that I think there are any of them. But I think that the success promised by it are ones that are achievable through that soul-searching, that desire to be the greater person and to act from there."


Although I've been meddling with the Yi more seriously for only about a year, I already know better than to get a positive answer and not try to examine things beneath the surface. So I didn't immetiately think that the 14s I've been getting were necessarily saying "go for it". That's why this hexagram seems puzzling to me. It is a wonderful hexagram, it is positive - I don't think we have to distort it and see it in a negative light. But perhaps there are preconditions in order for it to manifest something positive in the real world. Plus, I've found out that sometimes positive answers/advice require a lot more work than negative answers/advice. Or, it may be that you get lazy when you get a positive answer and don't look further to actually understand the advice.

Right now I'm at a point in my learning of the Yi where I'm wondering about this sort of thing, namely the advice behind the truly positive answers (hexagrams, lines) some of us might be missing. Are there any really good lines, for instance, that don't require any action or work on the part of the enquirer? Perhaps 42.5 is one of them. Then maybe not.

el_2

I'm inclined to think that way too - because the Yi is an instrument of growth, not a good luck fortune cookie kind of oracle.

42.5 would also be an illustration of what you talk about: since it has, as a precondition, the kindness of our heart, sincerity and benevolent attitude - so it puts us on notice that happy increase will come from developing such attitudes. And of course, the catch is that a kind heart, sincerity and benevolence are, by their very nature, untied to outcome - so 42.5 is not advice to manipulate someone else with cupboard love!

I have a few ideas about this.

I have received this hexagram without changing lines (and with) when the oracle wants me to deal with my self-worth.

Agreeing with a few others: I've not received it as consolation.
In fact, I've received it from the oracle when it seems exasperated with my inferiority complex and pity parties. I seem to read it in the same tough love tones my mother uses.

Abundance is a state of being from which, when one operates from it Changes the Situation to Favorable.
Abundance is an attitude of gratitude.
Abundance is a feeling of security and not a feeling of neediness. (When one is not needy, one cannot be taken advantage of or injured by giving to the unworthy.)
When one gives from a position of Abundance, it does not create an obligation with another person.
When one gives from a position of Abundance, the giving from yourself is done from compassion and kindness and true charity.
When one operates from a position of Abundance, one does not sell one's self out and later regret casting pearls before swine.
When one walks with the attitude of Abundance, one is so confident that others are certain that you are rich and powerful.

I was raised in a judeo-christian home. I remember a story about a lame man asking Saint Peter to heal him. He responded to that man, "Silver and gold have I none, but such as I have give I thee. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk."

Another thing that I connect with this is the Beatles lyrics, "Money can't by me love."

This is great power of healing that we have within ourselves to affect the world around us. When we operate from an inferiority complex of poor self-image, of feeling less than: we not only lose the power to influence those around us in a positive way - we diminish our own stature in a debasing manner rather than being modest. And that is false humility.

I just received this hexagram with no changing lines when asking the oracle to assist me in setting rules and boundaries for a very difficult situation I am facing, where my virtue has been compromised over and over again, my dignity is at stake. I have failed time and again, because I have allowed pride and the need to be recognised to guard my dignity. These have failed me.

So this self-rule for entering and getting through the situation (which will be an ordeal of several weeks), I have derived from this hexagram with no changing lines thusly:

SELF RULE #3: STOP. SILVER AND GOLD HAVE YOU NONE, BUT SUCH AS YOU HAVE IS WORTH MORE THAN MONEY CAN BUY. THIS IS YOUR IDENTITY. GUARD IT. ONLY GIVE FROM IT TO OTHERS FROM AN ATTITUDE OF GRATITUDE BECAUSE IT WAS GIVEN TO YOU (YOU DID NOT EARN IT) & REVERENCE FOR HOW VALUABLE IT REALLY IS - DO NOT SELL IT OR EXCHANGE IT FOR GAIN. ACT ONLY IN KEEPING WITH YOUR TRUE IDENTITY. MEDITATE ON THIS, KEEP IT EVER BEFORE YOU, AND YOU WILL BEHAVE APPROPRIATELY. DON'T ANNOUNCE WHO YOU ARE: BE WHO YOU ARE.

I hope this helps. :bows:

"From the Sun did I learn this, when it goeth down, the exuberant one: gold doth it then pour into the sea, out of inexhaustible riches, so that even the poorest fisherman roweth even with golden oars! For this did I once see, and did not tire of weeping in beholding it."
Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra *56-3

"Valuing is creating: hear it ye creating ones! Valuation itself is the treasure and jewel of the valued things."
ib.,#15

I always wondered with this hexagram that maybe the possession in great measure the Iching is referring to, especially when we are not feeling wealthy, are our negative thoughts and limiting beliefs?
We tend to be as wealthy as we feel deep down that we deserve to be. Maybe in moments were we are financially a little tight come because during that time we are "rich" in negative and limiting thoughts

People tend to assume that Possession in Great Measure means they HAVE or will have money or success but if we actually read the Judgement and the Image and the lines we see 14 is a meditation on WHAT IS NEEDED to have possession in great measure, and also advice on what possession in great measure really is.

POSSESSION IN GREAT MEASURE.
Supreme success.
Thus the superior man curbs evil and furthers the good,
And thereby obeys the benevolent will of heaven.

This hexagram is made up of the trigrams for strength and for clarity. So first of all one needs strength and clarity to manifest possession in great measure. Unless one has clarity and knows what their goal is, how will they be able to tell what to curb and what to further? What to discard, what to promote? It's easy to stockpile a bunch of stuff but it's not supreme good fortune unless it's the right stuff!

So the first line, the situation BEFORE one accumulates, reads
"No relationship with what is harmful. there is no blame in this.
If one remains conscious of the difficulty,
One remains without blame."

So BEFORE accumulating a bunch of stuff the first thing to realize is that you need to be selective. You must have discernment. There is no blame in this. It is tricky however to know what to take and what to leave behind. Line 1 warns that it's easy to slip, to be tempted and to forget, so one must make a point of being conscious of difficulties.

2. A big wagon for loading.
Line 2 is one of the best positions for practical here and now advice.
Possessions aren't really our possessions if we don't have them with us. And what's the use of having stuff if you can't take it with you? So "A big wagon for loading" is a very strong symbol of being prepared and luck and opportunity favors the prepared!
This line can also indicate friends who help with your enterprise. Interesting that hex 14 follows 13. Fellowship with Men. Perhaps IC is saying that our friends are our greatest possession.

3. A prince offers it to the sun of heaven. A petty man cannot do this.
A Prince shares his gifts. A poor man cannot do this.

4.He makes a difference between himself and his neighbor. No blame.
The first three lines talk about personal wealth, being selective in what you acquire, not taking on more than what you can handle, and donating the rest to help the general good. Now line four addresses the situation where you are surrounded by others who have more than you. This is a tricky situation because even when you know you have enough, that your needs are met, it is still easy to become envious and think somehow you need the latest thing to keep up with the Joneses. As in line 1, the person needs to be clear.

5. He whose truth is accessible, yet dignified, has good fortune.
This line says IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO HAVE POSSESSION IN GREAT MEASURE!
Even the rich neighbors of line 4 will be won over if the person is simply sincere.
I think this could be called the Dali Llama line.

6.He is blessed by heaven. Good fortune. Nothing that does not further.

So to sum it up, we see that Possession in Great Measure comes when we
1. Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff.
2. Possessions have value when they have use. The best possessions are helpful friends.
3. If you have more than you need give to others.
4. Don't be envious of those who appear to have more.
5. No matter if you are rich or poor, act with dignity and you will be welcome.
6. As we give to others (line 3) likewise God gives to us.

Most of these terms get some degree of abuse in modern economics,
but all have deeper meanings when it comes to living a richer life:
value
appreciation
interest
trust
economy
claim
right
resource
means
proceeds
reward
realize
purchase
treasure
endowment
premium
credit
equity
settlement
legacy
inheritance
liquidity
appropriate
redeem
solvency
enterprise
bargain
speculate
venture
option
assessment
reserve
enrichment
fortune
balance
indebtedness
pledge
precious
security
richness

For me Hexagram 14 is a Cornucopia Basket full of stuff.

Here's one. It's up to you to fill it with great possessions.

cornucopia63 said:

For me Hexagram 14 is a Cornucopia Basket full of stuff.
Here's one. It's up to you to fill it with great possessions.

Click to expand...

大車以載。有攸往。

bradford said:

大車以載。有攸往。

Click to expand...

Translation pls?

The great wagon is for loading
Have somewhere to go

Not that the wagon is useful both empty and full.
When it's empty you can pick up new jobs.