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Oh ego why'd you do it?

em ching

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Hello,

Just needing clarification. I'm afraid in this situation I'm the main one to blame... it's about a misunderstanding (I think), which I've tried to explain (but I'm not clear on it myself).. I'm trying to be detached.

Have I been understood?
33.3,4,6 > 39

Does this say that the misunderstanding demands retreat and that is the only way to resolve it? or that one person wants to forget it and let it go but the other is obstructing that? 33.3 talks about the inferior refusing to let go the superior and thus degenerating through deprivation from the superior (33.4)...

So I then asked is my friend the superior man described in hex 33?
7.1,3,4,6 > 14

:eek: I'm thinking they are because it was my impulsiveness that caused the problem.
Is it saying that yes - they possess self discipline?
And in the first reading, does it suggest a retreat from someone because of not wanting to deal with the difficulties that have come up, even if there is an understanding of the others motives/perspective?

Oh dear.
I wish the voice of the ego/ emotions didn't override sometimes!!! (and usually at critical moments).

So I also asked:
Why does the voice of the ego dominate and cripple self-improvement so easily?
38.1,3 > 50

I think this is saying you shouldn't allow certain negative voices to influence you and not chase after what you think you should have or have lost in life (38.1) and that sometimes you feel like the world is against you (38.3) but this isn't true and/or is necessary to self-development. And hex 50 could be saying that the mind is like a cauldron containing opposing elements ie. the ego and the 'higher' self, and that ordeals that chasten and are not ideal will ultimately nourish you as you transform inferior characteristics or tendencies.

Hmm.
Grateful for any input on these especially the first two!

:):bows:
 

gene

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Hi em ching

I'm just taking a guess here that perhaps there haven't been many responses because the overall circumstances here seem a little confusing. I will say this though, that I would consider the one that recognizes his mistake, understands it is an ego thing, is willing to make amends, as you seem to be, is the superior man. Now that may not hold true in every aspect of the interpretation, but in regards to what I have to say right now, it does. The commentary in line three says, "...no longer has the freedom of action." Do you feel that what you have done has restricted you to a certain extent from the group? In that case you are the one that no longer has freedom of action? But is that necessarily a bad thing? The text further says, "even with this expedient the situation is far from satisfactory." So, are they retreating or are you? Perhaps it hurts if they are. But then if they retreat out of anger, is it not the superior man who retreats in all friendliness? Is there a way out, so that relationships can be normalized? I don't know, but we can accept the situation, and retreat cheerfully from those who have retreated from us.

Probably doesn't help, or maybe it does. I will have to look at the other aspects later.

Gene
 

tigerintheboat

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Retreat

Just needing clarification. I'm afraid in this situation I'm the main one to blame... it's about a misunderstanding (I think), which I've tried to explain (but I'm not clear on it myself).. I'm trying to be detached.

Have I been understood?
33.3,4,6 > 39

Retreat, even though you are attacked (Line 3), be graceful (Line 4) and cheerful (line 6). There is Obstruction (H39) and your only choice is to Retreat. Do not focus on who is the superior man, just take the advice of the reading.

So I then asked is my friend the superior man described in hex 33?
7.1,3,4,6 > 14

Since Yi can't answer yes or no, the reading describes the superior man, as the single firm line among all the yielding lines. The reading says the superior man is a strong leader (Line 1), certain about the right course (Line 3), able to retreat (Line 4), and generous after victory (Line 6).

So is that you, or is that your friend? My vote is on you if you can follow the orders of the first reading and retreat! Then you are the firm leading the yielding.
So I also asked:
Why does the voice of the ego dominate and cripple self-improvement so easily?
38.1,3 > 50

... And hex 50 could be saying that the mind is like a cauldron containing opposing elements ie. the ego and the 'higher' self, and that ordeals that chasten and are not ideal will ultimately nourish you as you transform inferior characteristics or tendencies.

Yes, another translation of meaning of H38 is "creative tension" or "different points of view" . Both of the moving lines describe difficult situations (the loss of a horse (Line 1) and the loss of a nose (Line 3)), yet they have good endings! Out of these different points of view/tensions/difficulties you get The Cauldron, the valuable and important sacrificial vessel. This shows a different scale, one in which you realize that you can't have transformation without these opposing elements and difficult experiences.


Tiger
 

Trojina

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Hello,

Just needing clarification. I'm afraid in this situation I'm the main one to blame... it's about a misunderstanding (I think), which I've tried to explain (but I'm not clear on it myself).. I'm trying to be detached.

Have I been understood?
33.3,4,6 > 39

Does this say that the misunderstanding demands retreat and that is the only way to resolve it? or that one person wants to forget it and let it go but the other is obstructing that? 33.3 talks about the inferior refusing to let go the superior and thus degenerating through deprivation from the superior (33.4)...

So I then asked is my friend the superior man described in hex 33?
7.1,3,4,6 > 14

:eek: I'm thinking they are because it was my impulsiveness that caused the problem.
Is it saying that yes - they possess self discipline?
And in the first reading, does it suggest a retreat from someone because of not wanting to deal with the difficulties that have come up, even if there is an understanding of the others motives/perspective?




:):bows:

It can't always be our fault if other people misunderstand us. i see the 33 to 39 as counsel to withdraw from this (obviously lol) don't try to rectify or to make ammends and I think 33.3 is often about giving too much power to supporters ( friends associates etc) where really you'd be better holding you own authority in the matter. If any line in the Yi means they are gonna be worse off without you its 33.4...and 33.6 shows coming to terms, finding peace with withdrawal...and of course also i think the 39 doesn't suggest trying to plough on and rectify things, theres something in the way.

From what you said, even without the Yis answers, if someone misunderstood you and you tried to explain and they still don't let it go then theres nothing more you can do and you shouldn't run around after them trying to convince them you are a good guy ;) Thats what i take your answer as saying also...

I don't think 'the superior man' means your friend, i think its a model for your own actions like the ideal way to act in this situation, ie in 33 the best way to act is withdraw from this, don't try to change anything, protect yourself.. That answer is so clear i don't think you need the others really.

Editing to add i think theres an element of needing the other in 33.3 and 33.4 so i guess in order to figure out whos who for yourself in the reading you might consider who needs who most and who is going to be better off from withdrawing from the the other one, or withdrawing from explaining /making ammends. I have seen it as you are better to withdraw from whole issue but you might think it possible this is the perspective from the others POV. Hmm when it comes to whose POV i think it gets complicated which is why its best to always ask from self based perspective as this is how you are generally answered IMO. I mean the Yi isn't going to be advising the one who hasn't consulted it is so I think your question would have been much clearer along the lines of 'what do i need to do about this' then you wouldn't be lost as to who the answer is about...anyway only you will know who this applies to really noone else is going to be able to say as the ambiguity in the answer was set up by how you phrased the question, though as i say i think it much more likley it applies to you.
 
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em ching

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From what you said, even without the Yis answers, if someone misunderstood you and you tried to explain and they still don't let it go then theres nothing more you can do and you shouldn't run around after them trying to convince them you are a good guy ;) Thats what i take your answer as saying also...

Hello,

Thanks all! Yes I did do that a little Trojan - too apologetic for fear of losing their trust or regard - but to no avail.
And yes gene that is how I feel - that I no longer have freedom of action in this at all.
I think the other is retreating because there's nothing in it for them to remain on particularly friendly terms which hurts. But there is a big 39 in the way and I've done all I can (and too much probably!)
Misunderstandings are difficult when you are not able to speak to the person face to face, or if they don't feel that close to you to want things back on a better track.
But maybe it shouldn't matter as I am not in daily contact with them.

I asked what should I do about this now? (I want to continue with this person I really bloody do (I wish I didn't)
Hex 38 - Differences is right!

Is the friendship null and void?
19.1,3,4,6 > 50

How weird a hex 38 and 50 combo again!
Could this be saying I need to approach the idea that the opposition in the relationship has been necessary for the development of my (bruised) ego in my cauldron? (Through unpleasant but necessary encounters for growth and learning?)
Or that the relationship could 'cook' in some way?

Thanks!
:bows:
 

em ching

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I think hex 38 was reminding me to respect differences. Including respecting when the other doesn't want to compromise. There's nothing that I could do if I am not being heard in the first place.

I think hex 19 to 50 was saying approach the encounter as another thing that goes into my cauldron as a lesson. And as tigerintheboat says here :

Yes, another translation of meaning of H38 is "creative tension" or "different points of view" . Both of the moving lines describe difficult situations (the loss of a horse (Line 1) and the loss of a nose (Line 3)), yet they have good endings! Out of these different points of view/tensions/difficulties you get The Cauldron, the valuable and important sacrificial vessel. This shows a different scale, one in which you realize that you can't have transformation without these opposing elements and difficult experiences.

So expressing again how I should consider such chastening experiences - such as conflicts or misunderstandings and the resulting sense of alienation from others when I feel there needn't be - as just another aspect of life which cannot be modified to suit your ego's needs... and make your pot more interesting and informed perhaps - so that you become a more rounded person? Everyone is different so that every individual pot can learn from the other.. which adds it to their own inner 'masterpiece' perhaps (Lise has a good explanation of hex 50 which has until now been unclear to me). I think it's about experiences which yield transformations or a new way of looking at the world..

:bows:
 

tigerintheboat

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Approach the Cauldron

Hello,
(I want to continue with this person I really bloody do (I wish I didn't)
Hex 38 - Differences is right!

Is the friendship null and void?
19.1,3,4,6 > 50

How weird a hex 38 and 50 combo again!
Could this be saying I need to approach the idea that the opposition in the relationship has been necessary for the development of my (bruised) ego in my cauldron? (Through unpleasant but necessary encounters for growth and learning?)
Or that the relationship could 'cook' in some way?

Yes, very thrilling to see H50 again, connected to Spring/Approach/Cooperation, a period of new possibilities, Overseeing . The lines are a complex story, but they lead again to The Cauldron, so I don't see the friendship as null and void. It sounds like it might get picked up and worked on until you have accumulated wisdom and are beyond personal ambition (Balkin on Line 6).

Just a thought...(aren't they all?). H19 overall is about the harmonious working relationships of superiors and subordinates. So maybe "friendship" of equals is not what you have going forward.

Tiger
 

em ching

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Thanks tiger :)
Yes that does make sense - It sounds like it might get picked up and worked on until you have accumulated wisdom and are beyond personal ambition (Balkin on Line 6).

Perhaps the only way there'd be a relationship now after the problem is if it was necessary for undertakings, such as work... rather than being a personal relationship.

I thought perhaps it could mean the approach would be transformed.. but then I guess that makes sense with the above!

I have also received 28.4 > 48 recently in relation to relationships.
I asked: 1. Is the meaning of life to forge connections with others or is it more about following your own path? (I usually don't ask 'or' Q's but I just wanted an indication of what was important)
And 2. whether to share something with someone who is being distant (so probs best not to but can't think of anyone else that would be interested! But then maybe the ulterior motive there is that I'm trying to impress this person... which would lead to humiliation somehow and is thus not conducive to keeping the ridgepole in tact...)

And it seems to fully echo what you said! That as long as there are no ulterior motives, then working with others is important and can hep strengthen you (as the ridgepole) but that it must be for the 'greater good' somehow...

:rolleyes::bows:
 

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