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lynx

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Greetings All,

I'm VERY new to this and I have a question...
Would anyone here happen to know if there are certain attributes attached to the hexagrams and lines that a novice wouldn't be able to ferret out?
For instance, can one tell by reading a certain line of any given hexagram,that it pertains to someone with spiritual gifts such psychicism,clairvoyance or that the person is maybe a good diviner?

I asked a question about myself regarding
spiritual gifts and received Hexagram 17 no lines...And,I don't see the connection :\

Any comments on this would be appreciated.
Lynx
 

heylise

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Sure makes sense..
Hex.17 is 'following', not especially running after something/someone, but rather in the meaning of resonating.

Seems very fundamental for any psychic ability.

LiSe
 

gene

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Yes, I agree with Heylise, and also, below is the trigram of thunder which has the additional meaning of gaining sudden awareness. A shocking event that makes us suddenly aware, somewhat like the Tarot trump, the tower, and above, the trigram lake, which has the additional meaning of reflection. Enlightenment within from reflection without. Following often has the additional meaning of being receptive. The lake would have the additional meaning of calmness. (On a clear day the lake would likely be very still. A calm mind that is receptive can be acted upon. The lower trigram thunder can also mean powerful action. It seems like a very good answer to me. Perhaps not only telling you you have the ability, but how to augment it.

Gene
 

lightofdarkness

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I would say that getting 17 for that question focuses attention on the need to believe. Only then will the trust be strong and so a building of self-confidence.

17 shares meaning space with 25. Both focus on asserting 'something' without fear, without consideration of consequences. 17 is unconditional, 25 is conditional where the focus is on asserting a particular.

17 gets its nourishment from 34 - being invigorated by 'someone', even if it is yourself in the form of some 'insight' or idea etc.

You can map out all of the aspects of 17 using the method described in the threads:

"Roots of I Ching Meanings - Line Position Archetypes"

and

"Theoretical relationship question, hex 38 and 40"

Chris.
 

jte

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Hi, Lynx -

I think that perhaps another aspect of this answer is that if you're genuinely interested in this facet of life, the I-Ching itself may be willing to help guide you in this area.

So, it may be saying that since/if you are sincere about this, it can or will help you to experience and grow in your personal spirituality.

Good luck, have fun, and be careful. MHO, there are indeed truths out there to be revealed.

- Jeff
 

jerryd

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Lynx; Gooday to you and for what it is worth, you may feel you need to ask if you possess a quality for devination. I feel you need to ask the Yi how much of this quality you have.
We all possess an intellectual ability to intuit but mostly fail to use it or our society talks us away from such strong natures. It seems to oppose any belief system which does not possess proof by quantification. I am finding the YI is governed by many of these same rules of verifycation and leads one to de-value natural feelings of right and natural wrong. Just by your nature you will find you can be for your self 95% correct, for others you may need to involve your self in maturity and developement of your given abilities. The practice and understanding of what is said here in these forms will be of great help in this area.

A quote here from Fritjo Capra in his book "The Tao of Physics" he quotes Chuang-tuz as saying
" In the transformation and growth of all things,every bud and feature has its proper form. In this we have their gradual maturing and decay, the contrast flow of transformation and change."
If you and I are allowed to do what is natural without human contridiction we are following the Tao and will find our own way without harming nature or its surroundings.
 

luz

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I was just reading this thread and I found the answer to Lynx's question very interesting, because about a week ago I asked:
"How can I develop my intuition?"
and the response was:

17.1.2.3.4 -> 50

I've been working on this reading and have been trying to get a practical application for it. Line 1, for instance sounds to me like I live too much in my mind. But when it says 'mingle' (Karcher) I'm not sure what it means. Should I literally talk to people more?
17.2 and 17.3 about the son and the responsible adult seems baffling too.
17.4 seems on the money. What reason do I have to want to develop my intuition? If I dig deep I'll find selfish reasons, I'm sure. On the other hand I want to be more connected my center, so to speak and I also want to develop spiritually...

I would LOVE to hear any comments and advice any of you might have.

thanks,
 

hilary

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Oh what a fascinating reading...

Starting at line 1, renouncing 'office'... maybe thinking a long way outside the box as regards how you relate to things and to people. Instead of thinking you have to be intuitive about that thing or person 'out there', feeling that you and they are already part of the same stuff.

Lines 2 and 3: are you child-like, spontaneously imagining possibilities, playing freely with every possibility wide open? Are you the responsible adult who needs intuitive guidance in order to go after your chosen goals? Sounds as though you might have to get to know both of these roles, learn to move between them. Line 4 warns against trying to use your intuition to grab at certain knowledge, turning following the currents into a hunt. (Which might be a matter of being too much the responsible adult.)

Having said all that, though... changing lines 1,2,3,4 of 17 doesn't bring you to hexagram 50, but to 48. Was that the reading?
 

luz

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You are right, that was a typo. It turns to 48.
Thanks for your input.
 

luz

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Hilary,
I've digested your response a little bit more... it seems to make a lot of sense. Regarding lines 2 and 3, I'd say that I'm neither. I tend to be like the child more than the adult but I have really lost a lot of that child-like quality through the years. So you're probably right in that I have to try both roles and move between them...
The resulting hexagram 48 means I will attain what I want if I follow this advice?
I still have a problem understand line 4. I mean, why do we want to be more intuitive? I'm unclear if the problem is with WANTING it per se... in other words the hunting is for intuition or if it has to do with WHAT we want to do with the intuition... having an advantage over other people since you can 'read' the situation better?
Also, on a practical level, what would you suggest i could actually DO to move in the right direction?

Thanks a lot for your help.
 

hilary

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So since it really is 48... you're 'following the Well', which sounds to me like trying to trace the flow of underground currents. It's the age-old question of the Well: what you are looking for is always there; the issue is how you can reach it. If you think of it as developing the skill to access what you already know, rather than 'finding stuff out', does that help?

About line 4 - I think the problem is with 'wanting' in a narrow, directed kind of way. Maybe the difference between wanting to develop intuition for the sake of being more aware and more connected, as against 'I need to intuit what this man feels about me right now!'
wink.gif


In practical terms... well, being who I am and doing what I do, I'd suggest using Yi as a means of being more awake. You could ask 'what do I need to be aware of now?' - or you could ask for the message behind some event that caught your attention.

Sorry, this isn't a translation of your reading into suggestions line-by-line, but I think it is in the spirit of Following.

Umm... perhaps one way to use line 1 (often a good place to start
happy.gif
) would be to experiment with stepping outside your own role in any given situation? Projecting yourself out imaginatively, 'how would this feel if I were the bus driver/ the boss/ the cat/ the tree?'
 

hilary

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By the way -


<CENTER><SUB><FONT COLOR="808080">where is everybody???</FONT></SUB></CENTER>
 

hilary

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In this case, anybody interested in the reading is everybody. If you see what I mean.
 

Sparhawk

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<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

In this case, anybody interested in the reading is everybody. If you see what I mean.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Darn! I am here and can't be counted...
biggrin.gif
 

luz

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Thanks Hilary, I appreciate the interpretation. And yes, where is everybody????
 

luz

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I always reply hastily and then realize I had more to say.
At least in this case, it's not that I have more questions. I just want to express my appreciation a bit more.
I really like the way you approach your readings, they are so imaginative and so fresh. I can see your enthusiasm that seems so new even though you've been dealing with these hexes and these lines for God knows how long.
 
C

candid

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Whadeyemiss?

Actually, I was going to respond to Lynx's interesting question/reading, but then after reading LiSe's response I thought - yeah, that sums it up alright. Then Gene's "Enlightenment within from reflection without", and then with the following (no pun intended) responses from the rest, I really had nothing to add. So rather than add I'll just offer my two bits, since it is a topic which interests me.

Based on my observations, there are two elements to clairvoyance, psychicism and divination. The first is grounding. By this I mean that a reading has roots in some enduring historical base and/or process. The second is imagination, which scans numerable possibilities. What unites the two is cognition. My mind always visualizes this as sewing two pieces of fabric together.

On Lightangel?s lines:

1. There is a shift that takes places when you intuit. Typically, it is our conscious construct which directs our thought process. Now we operate outside our construct. ?Going beyond (his own) gate to find associates, he will achieve merit.? Legge

2. A similar idea can be expressed here. You obtain the boy (insight) by losing the man (logic). I think more correctly it is increasing the boy and decreasing the man, not losing the man entirely.

3. This, I believe, is the grounding. To have a root, a tradition or a school to hold on to. This could be I Ching, Tarot, Native American or other Native Shamanistic practice, which has been tried and proven true for at least a few centuries. Without this grounding the imagination drifts and usually bypasses the mark: the aim, purpose and practical application of the intuitive reading.

4. This is where the egotistical motivation sullies the reading, and thereby its effect; not to mention its divinity. It?s sad to witness psychics brag about their success rate. It totally loses the young boy: the innocence. ?To go one's way with sincerity brings clarity. How could there be blame in this?? WB

48: The Well is where all insight comes from: past, present and future.

Another question that is frequently asked is, ?can intuition and psychic ability be learned and developed, or is it just something you?re born with??

I think every one processes some measure of psychic ability. But I also know that desire doesn?t always equal aptitude. I think most people stand in the way of their own psychic abilities ? that strong man not wanting or allowing that small boy to get out of the yard; and with good reason. A kid could get lost out there or run over. Using the man as a father and the young boy as the son, the son fares best when under the guidance of the father, but is not afraid to ride his bike without training wheels or venture down the block into the unknown.

C
 

luz

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Candid,

I think that's true. Everybody must have some psychic, intuitive ability. But not everybody develops it, maybe you can even say that not everybody is able to develop it in their lifetime. But the potential must be there.

I don't know how everybody else works, but what I feel is I have is a lot of ambivalence in me. I question my motives a lot. (No, I'm not trying to find out 'what that guy thinks about me', although I have found, when I do my readings which are for other people more often than not, that the LOVE issue is probably the most compelling one when it comes to people wanting to 'know'.) I do want to be more 'connected', more 'put together'. I deal with anxiety issues (Candid I think I read somewhere that you were once unable to leave the house, agoraphobia?). I have panic attacks from time to time. And truly, the best reason I have for wanting to be more 'connected' to my center, etc. is to get rid of that. But now that I've been using the I ching, it seems that I also want 'intuition'. And I think it might be because I want to be able to 'see' what the I ching tells me about any of the questions I ask. This might not seem like a bad reason altogether, except that I feel I can get a message from the text that will be useful for my growth, without knowing exactly what's going on in the real world. So I wonder if I should be happy with just that.

I'm sorry, I do tend to ramble a lot. I can see how that migh dis-interest people in the thread...

Anyway, if you're out there, Candid, just one question, about line #3. How do I use the I Ching as a grounding? Thanks for your response. I don't know if you guys often do searches in this forum but I do and it's such a great help. I think it's a great community job to try to post as many readings as we can. The results are an incredible source of information for anyone out there.
 

jerryd

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This is very intresting Lightangel, as I am studing this in my search for a truth which I a can "hang a hat on" so to speak. Wilhelm in his translation with Barnes makes it very clear very early on, he states; " All individuals are not equally fitted to consult the Oracle. It requires a clear mind, receptive to the influence of cosmic influences which dwell hidden in the divineing stalks" then procedes to explain the nature of the stalks.

Something els I find important,paraphrasing Wilhelm,"in reading Hexagrams (is he states) we must remember the Book of Change is to be explained in the light of it's own content and of the era to which it belongs."

I have to make a decision at some point, if I am to do readings, wheather I am in control of my intuitive facilities,atuned to the question in it's proper context, and can I ballance what the Oricle gives me with all this human stuff I carry around?

Well anyway this is where I am at, sorry for carrying on so.
 
C

candid

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Lightangel,

Lots of people talk and know from their head. Until you go through a Job experience it never reaches a gut level. It wasn't just agoraphobia, it was a complete break down, mentally, physically and spiritually. But for me it was perhaps the most important experience of my life. I'm thankful for it all now.

What I was referring to in line 3 is, many people with psychic ability have nothing solid to guide them in their readings They tend to 'float' in and out of true perceptions, or they 'follow' their intuition and receive numerable impressions, many which have no correlation to the reading or to the person they're reading for, the sitter. Or they will fixate on the minor details and miss the whole point. I Ching provides a more solid base which grounds the reading, making it relatable and more applicable to the crux of the sitter?s needs.
 

luz

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I see what you mean. You could have all this flow of information coming into your head and not know what to do with it.

I'm not sure yet that my experience with anxiety and panic is a good thing. I've been dealing with it for about 14 years, I think. Specially in the first few years the only thing that stopped me from being agoraphobic was the NEED to go out to work every day. That I'm thankful for. I read somewhere or somebody told me that panic attacks might mean an inner desire of a 'religious experience'. I think that's one way to look at it. Your body takes you in this little trip and it's so damn scary but maybe if you follow the flow (which is what they advice anyway) you would find something of value at the other end.

About Jerry's comment on not everybody being able to consult, I'm not sure about that. Sometimes I ask questions and I know I don't have the right frame of mind and I do get uncanny answers. Just now, I asked whether it would be a good idea to buy a new house and I got 37.4 -> 13. It looks like a very positive answer, but even if I'm missing the half of it, the fact that I drew this hexagram with this line for this particular question, it's just amazing. And I think that can happen for anyone. So maybe it's not that not everybody can consult but not everybody can read it with accuracy. But I still think that there are many different levels to an answer and if you understand only up to some level, well that's what you get. You might find out more if you're more intuitive and know how to go deeper, heck you might be able to divine the future of the universe off one reading, perhaps. But if you at least find out the basics, you got something out of it. I think.
 
C

candid

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Lightangel,

I'm 'iffy' when it comes to offering this kind of input or advise, for concern of being an armchair shrink. What I can offer is just my own impression and personal experience. But that's all it is.

I believe the key to overcoming any fear is to confront it. In my case, dreams have been especially important in accomplishing this. And for what it's worth, the dreams were especially spiritual in nature, though it took awhile for me to recognize them as such.

I agree that a routine, such as job, helps to keep order in life, not to mention providing food and shelter! But for solving something such as panic attacks, that requires some exploring, whether through professional help or just following your own inner guide. There's that "f" word again.

Oh, before I forget, I believe that ambivalence and even out-and-out skepticism is healthy, even for a psychic or clairvoyant. That too acts as a grounding influence. Wilhelm's 47.6 says "If one feels remorse over this and makes a start, good fortune comes." Oppression can also apply to oppressing our more intuitive senses.
 

lynx

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Hi All

Sorry for not replying sooner, but I lost my sign in information and I'm just now finding it :\

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for all the feedback,your comments were all very helpful.And I can truly say that I have achieved clarity concerning my question.

Thanks a bunch
Lynx
 

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