Hello all,

A very happy, prosperous Tiger new year to all who celebrate the Chinese New Year according to the lunar calender.

The new year didn't start off right at all for me. As posted in another thread, I still haven't found a job after 6months, love life isn't going too fabulously and in fact teetering on the brink of breakdown, and then just on the 2nd day of the new year, came down with stomach flu. And I am still wincing from stomach cramps as I type. So right, when everyone is greeting everyone else happy new year, my new year apparently is not as happy as I hope for it to be.

In the midst of all these negativity, I did a reading with the question "What should I do to feel peaceful and calm now?" Well, the rationale was in hope that I can do something to feel better about my dismal job search, my abysmal love life and convince myself that the rest of the year won't suck even if I'm terribly sick right at the very beginning. (Thought to myself "This is not a bad omen, this is not a bad omen...")

I won't say I'm an expert like many of the senior member like Trojan and and Lise, just to name a few here. But I reckon I've manage to improve my reading skills a little over the years and am able to interpret most of the hexagrams Iching gives me. But this... Damn, on top of having a bad start to a new year, I get a hexgram I totally don't get. I really need help.

So "What should I do to feel peaceful and calm now?"
Hexagram 44.2.4.6 to 39
Fish?? What has fish got to do with feel peaceful and calm now? Or do the fishes represent something else?

So, HELPPPPPPPPPPPP... I jsut feel so unhappy, I want my mojo back.

hey elkoholik

sorry to hear about your troubles
I was reading about the new year too . . the sense I got was that it calls for decisive action at the right moment -although that might inspire fear . . this is a tiger after all . . but I think your reading says that you need to go out and meet this damn jungle . .

. . have no idea what this 'fish' is in your case . . if you read back in previous treads people describe it as a symbol of fertility (you have a good thing going but it's not ready yet?) and that you should not neglect it (line 4) but get out of your cloud and meet it head on . . but I wonder if the 'fish' in this case is your worries and fears . . well, you know they are there, these shadowy creatures, no need to feed on them, which is not the same as pretending they don't exist (line 4) you know they can actually be quite fruitful if you are gentle towards them and yourself . . and still meet them head on (yes, I don't think that part can be any different, you need to do something no matter if you feel that this is a bit too much for you )

hmm . . this doesn't seem like the time to be calm and peaceful I guess

take good care -and don't be too shy to get a little fierce you know, fear and worries just need to be roared at sometimes

elkoholik said:

I won't say I'm an expert like many of the senior member like Trojan and and Lise, just to name a few here. But I reckon I've manage to improve my reading skills a little over the years and am able to interpret most of the hexagrams Iching gives me. But this... Damn, on top of having a bad start to a new year, I get a hexgram I totally don't get. I really need help.

So "What should I do to feel peaceful and calm now?"
Hexagram 44.2.4.6 to 39
Fish?? What has fish got to do with feel peaceful and calm now? Or do the fishes represent something else?

So, HELPPPPPPPPPPPP... I jsut feel so unhappy, I want my mojo back.

Click to expand...

i better say I'm no expert before someone else does

your name troubles me 'elkoholick'/alcoholic....you aren't drinking like a fish are you ?

Hey Rodaki,

Thanks for your thoughts.

I was pondering over your bit about how fish can be seen as a symbol of fertility. Yes, do seem to recall reading about that somewhere else now. And on the same track, fish was seen as a symbol in Chinese history. Although... My life overall suck now, not just love life. So I'd go with your take that those fishes represents my fears, worries and sleepless nights.

I suddenly thought 44.2 might go something like: You have lots of worries and anxieties and fears now, but don't let it go near your hopes and optimism (the guests mentioned in the line??) for the new year.

And then 44.4 would be as you said, don't feed the fears, keep faith.

And then 44.6. I'm lost. "He comes to meet with his horns. Humiliation. No blame." If there is humiliation, how can there be no blame? And what's with the horns? Somehow, the horns reminds me of hexagram 26 and 34 where horns are mentioned. But in both cases, those lines that carries "horns" are talking about restraint and cautiousness. So... Can someone help me out here? Is my inference correct when I read 44.6 as saying that if I am rash and run into my problems now heads down, with horns like a young bull, I'm gonna meet humiliation. But I'll be ok??

Right, still lost, coz Rodaki, I'm with you. This doesn't sound very peaceful and calm to me at all.

your name troubles me 'elkoholick'/alcoholic....you aren't drinking like a fish are you ?

Click to expand...

I might very well soon take to the bottle if things don't start looking up. Or maybe, that's what the fishes meant in hexagram 44. Drinking like a fish. Warning me to stay off the bottle?

Hey Trojan!!

Sorta real glad to see you somehow after how you pointed out 16.6 may not be as exuberant as I originally painted it out to be in another thread about my job interview. Not to mention your cheerfulness. Can do with a bucketful now. You're always so cheerful in all your posts. See, I've been this closet-Clarity-forum posts-reader. I don't feel confident enough to interpret other's posts, but I read them to self-improve. So I've been coming across alot of your posts but please don't see me as a stalker!!

Do you have any opinion about those damn fishes and horns in the lines I've got for Hexagram 44?

O, I previously also picked up this analyzing technique from another thread on the other board "Exploring Divination" with Hmesker., where you get a resulting trigram from the lower and upper trigrams that makes up the hexagram.
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=9352

So in this case, the resulting trigram would be Chen, which represents thunder. Erm... Nothing peaceful about thunder. It rather much shakes up everything. So... Am I going the wrong path by seeking peace and calm now?? I should be actively going about doing something, shaking things up? (Although I would have to say I've been very actively looking for a job, sending out close to 100 applications, if not more in the last 6 months, and the reason to why I am tethering on the brink of a relationship breakdown was also coz of a quarrel. So yes, very Chen, very thunder).

And I don't like the resulting hexagram of 39 either. Nothing peaceful and calm about it.

Fishes ....

Just in case you can find something helpful

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=4625

elkoholik said:

Hey Trojan!!


Do you have any opinion about those damn fishes and horns in the lines I've got for Hexagram 44?

Click to expand...

Oh yes i have an opinion on everything.. see below

elkoholik said:

Hello all,


The new year didn't start off right at all for me. As posted in another thread, I still haven't found a job after 6months, love life isn't going too fabulously and in fact teetering on the brink of breakdown, and then just on the 2nd day of the new year, came down with stomach flu. And I am still wincing from stomach cramps as I type. So right, when everyone is greeting everyone else happy new year, my new year apparently is not as happy as I hope for it to be.

In the midst of all these negativity, I did a reading with the question "What should I do to feel peaceful and calm now?" Well, the rationale was in hope that I can do something to feel better about my dismal job search, my abysmal love life and convince myself that the rest of the year won't suck even if I'm terribly sick right at the very beginning. (Thought to myself "This is not a bad omen, this is not a bad omen...")



So "What should I do to feel peaceful and calm now?"
Hexagram 44.2.4.6 to 39
Fish?? What has fish got to do with feel peaceful and calm now? Or do the fishes represent something else?

So, HELPPPPPPPPPPPP... I jsut feel so unhappy, I want my mojo back.

Click to expand...

My interpretation is quite different to Doras so you may get confused...but you did ask so... my overall impression is one of you trying to grab at things (44) where direct action doesn't work (39). So i feel the Yi hasn't answered directly in telling you what to do to feel peaceful...its telling you what not to do in order to feel peaceful

The context, the place your coming from is heroic (39) you are faced with difficulties and you think the way forward is to tackle them head on, and go grab (44) what you want or need to make things right...but it isn't working as you've found out. In 39 one is faced with a mountain (the obstacles) but one cannot just trek straight over it, the advice is to pause and see if there is a better way around, and , more importantly a less lonley heroic way around. Looking at the lines in 44. 44.2 indicates one has something but it is way too early to try to give it form...I'm recalling something about 'bin rites' in another thread which was something about although a relationship has formed one is not ready to go forward with announcing marriage just yet. Applied generally to your life, perhaps something is brewing within you but it reallyisn't ready yet for you to go pushingit into anything.

44.4 says simply to me there isn't anything there. A fish may be an opportunity to gain what is needed but if you are looking somewhere where there is no fish...then theres no chance. Thinking of your 16.6 in the other thread do you think you may be lookingin the wrong places for means of making income ?

44.6 often to me indicates giving someone/something the brush off. You stand to look arrogant but it can't be helped becasue you don't want/need the thing being proffered.

Overall I'm thinking maybe you need to sit back down at the foot of the mountain and forget even trying to go accross it for a moment (ie forget trying to conquer obstacles) and look about at other more easier, lazier , relaxing ways to accomplish your aims. This may not be so easy becasue the 44 shows a strong desire to want to do things your way, the way you currently think they should be done...but actually this gets you nowhere. This desire to move how you want to is valid but its still forming (44.2) you can't rush it if you do you find theres nothing there where you thought it would be (44.4)...and move on kind of disgruntled(44.6) because you didn't get what you wanted.

I see the advice in 39 as quite important in the reading. In practical terms it often means looking for new ways of getting help and support. Struggling on alone is not the way to go, you get exhausted..and here i think you get exhausted at trying to impose your will(44) in areas where applying your will bears no fruit (or fish 44.4)

maybe you need to for now let go of the quest for solutions where its like you versus the world and employ the aid and support of the bits of your world that can lend you support...a more indirect route, less grabby, more sociable..and i think 39 does encourage you to seek out those who can help you, friends, mentors, try to utilise support of others where you can. meantime the essence of your wishes are still there intact (44.2) just not ready to be forced into actualisation yet.

in your reading I'm seeing fish as potentials, opportunities and so on..potential for nourishment i guess amongst other things...whatever it is we wish to catch may be thought of as the fish...and what you wish to catch here is peace of mind... hmmm

Wow!! Wow wow wow wow wow.

Trojan, you are spot on.

This may not be so easy becasue the 44 shows a strong desire to want to do things your way, the way you currently think they should be done...

Click to expand...

Yes, I admit, I am the impatient sort that wants a answer/results now, I want things to be done now. I know, it can be a really bad personality trait at times.

And as you said, what I wish to catch now, the fish I want to capture, will be a peace of mind. So when you say to step back as consider alternative ways to overcome the obstacle as in Hexagram 39, I was just thinking, maybe that is where the peace comes in. Taking a rest, giving it a break, instead of some kamikaze samurai who roars "CHARRGGGGGEEE!!" into those obstacles in my life now and then goes all depress when nothing goes my way at all. I think it's starting to make sense now...

I see the advice in 39 as quite important in the reading. In practical terms it often means looking for new ways of getting help and support. Struggling on alone is not the way to go, you get exhausted..and here i think you get exhausted at trying to impose your will(44) in areas where applying your will bears no fruit (or fish 44.4)

Click to expand...

And thank you Maria, coz after reading your thread, I realise that there was an idea proposed which concurred with Trojan's idea on 44.4. How "包" may mean the action which leads to no results (no fish)...

Wow... I really need to go think abit. Your post was long Trojan, lots of info, lots of food for thought. And for that, I am very grateful. I will still be lost with an blank mind (empty tank), attempting to spear for interpretations I can't see (no fish) if not for your pointers. :bows: I'm just in awe to how you manage to see so much while I just stare at the 3 changing lines and go ?? :bag: Damn, I really need to learn the art of reading lines much much faster.

elkoholik said:

Hey Rodaki,

Thanks for your thoughts.

I was pondering over your bit about how fish can be seen as a symbol of fertility. Yes, do seem to recall reading about that somewhere else now. And on the same track, fish was seen as a symbol in Chinese history. Although... My life overall suck now, not just love life. So I'd go with your take that those fishes represents my fears, worries and sleepless nights.

I suddenly thought 44.2 might go something like: You have lots of worries and anxieties and fears now, but don't let it go near your hopes and optimism (the guests mentioned in the line??) for the new year.

And then 44.4 would be as you said, don't feed the fears, keep faith.

And then 44.6. I'm lost. "He comes to meet with his horns. Humiliation. No blame." If there is humiliation, how can there be no blame? And what's with the horns? Somehow, the horns reminds me of hexagram 26 and 34 where horns are mentioned. But in both cases, those lines that carries "horns" are talking about restraint and cautiousness. So... Can someone help me out here? Is my inference correct when I read 44.6 as saying that if I am rash and run into my problems now heads down, with horns like a young bull, I'm gonna meet humiliation. But I'll be ok??

Right, still lost, coz Rodaki, I'm with you. This doesn't sound very peaceful and calm to me at all.

Click to expand...

hi again

just to not be misunderstood . . my understanding of your lines went as this:
44.2: you have worries but don't feed on them (you are your own guest in this line, but it might as well be what you said about the new things coming)
44.4: not feeding on your fears doesn't mean that they don't exist, by being open to their existence you manage to take them in and process them, even turning them into a tool for learning and adapting)
44.6: whatever you have to deal with, you might find yourself somehow over-reacting, or, as Trojan said, being a bit arrogant, which might make one feel embarrassed but carries no fault -you're just looking out for yourself best way your instincts tell you to

39: a challenge you need to go through to get to the other side -best way to do this is finding the way around obstacles rather than ignoring their status . .

so yes, I guess mine and Trojan's approach differ here (and I'm not even an expert! :bag: ) but I think we do agree on one thing, on the need for you to look inside and find both what is blocking you and what is the best way to handle it (39: how do you overcome obstacles?). You might find that Trojan is right and you are being too pushy, or that you need to brace up and go on this long and winding road in boldness . . maybe you could even talk with Yi about the results you could get either way and then decide how you need to proceed . . (but please, bear in mind that not all times are good times for peace . . now that's kinda weird coming from my mouth but . . aw well )

Hey all,

Sorry if I went missing for abit. Decided to just go for a walk, leave things behind for a mo, and meet up with my girlfriend, watch some DVDs, relax, stop feeding my fears as how Rodaki put it and to stop rushing things as what Trojan said. (Have to say, "Percy Jackson" was really good.)

Trojan, I think I might just feel a teeny-weeny bit better, having taken a step back. You did say,

let go of the quest for solutions where its like you versus the world and employ the aid and support of the bits of your world that can lend you support...a more indirect route, less grabby, more sociable..

Click to expand...

So the weekend, watching movie with girlfriend, having a pleasant dinner, with a very yummy strawberry shortcake for dessert, taking my mind off 44, job search, love life, was all quite a break. I still want what I want, but maybe, not now NOW sorta thing. Instead of just eyeing permanent jobs, I'm looking at those temporary ads now for promoters for roadshows, those that last a couple of days so that it won't interfere with my job search and interviews, a but at the same time, bring in some dough and to keep me occupied with something to do in the day, instead of twiddling thumbs at home. Haven't got anything so far, coz I just started looking anyway, but I think, it give me hope too, the sense of I'm doing something.

Rodaki, you are an expert in my eye. Alongside Trojan. And I love your light-heartedness. Anyway who is depress can do with a huge dose of that.

You might find that Trojan is right and you are being too pushy, or that you need to brace up and go on this long and winding road in boldness . .

Click to expand...

O yes, I am trying now to brace myself for a long, winding path to happiness, calm and serenity. That was why I went for a movie, and strawberry shortcake over the weekend. Girl Power. I must get myself out of this depressive mode, set about occupying myself with the above mention part-time job and when I think I am ready, I will set about removing the Obstacles which Hexagram 39 is trying to show me.