Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
Hello Eremita:So, in the South, the Sunny side of the mountain is that which faces North, etc. etc
so put yourself in my positionI can say, it messed with my head!
it makes sense when viewing from the north, relative to the solar ecliptic.I've been curious however, why would ancient peoples in the northern hemisphere (the ancient Shang and Zhou peoples of China) put South (trigram Li/Flame) at the top of their maps?
I do agree'm think they were more 'oriented' towards the meaning / meanings of 'South'
I guess so and I do admit it attracts me somewhat . . .It is also much more 'connected' to Taoist alchemy
Hello
I have forever wondered about northern-centric ‘bias’ regarding which way the earth ‘stands up’. From space there is no top or bottom. But on earth, we tend to think that there is a ‘top’ and ‘bottom’. However the cardinals do help us navigate, position, etc.
Having said that, now that I have been drawn into the Yi, I find it quite disconcerting when the reference to north is winter, etc. because it does not fit my reality. Further, Winter and Summer are at the opposite ends of time in the North and South.
So, in the South, the Sunny side of the mountain is that which faces North, etc. etc.
I have drawn two graphics (Early Heaven representations) to illustrate what i mean.
Should Yi interpretations, when we are south of the equator, be seen as I suggest?
Or am I …. crazy!
It is a proposition that i put out there
If I am wrong, then i will be educated
if i am right, then i will be assured
Also note the TaiJi relationships
e.g. sunrise from the East
Your comments please.
Thank you
Ano Eremita
Northern Hemisphere Image . . .
View attachment 3826
Southern Hemisphere Proposed Image . . .
View attachment 3827
Thank youPS - I think this thread goes in Exploring Divination, so I'll ask the admin. to move it there - no worries and no big deal; it's just this is about the Yi, and not about a particular reading or interpretation.
how do the seasons work in your diagram seasons?I work with the Late - or Later Heaven Trigram (bagua) circle, which I shared below
thank youLast time we were on that question was here:
Five Arts Forum - Why Doesn't The Bazi Seasons Change For People Born In The Southern Hemisphere?
Metaphysics at its best - Bazi life reading, Liu Yao divination, and Tarot cardsfivearts.org
May seem like something else, but its the same question, should we invert Water and Fire if the Solstices are inverted, only in other systems it shows up in different places, but it is there in most.
so put yourself in my position
it messes with my head when i see my homeland below
I guess so and I do admit it attracts me somewhat . . .
and so I came up with this . . .
how do the seasons work in your diagram seasons?
I feel really comfortable seeing it like this though from the south (there is no difference in the meaning/implications). . .
This is true, and we can do the same with maps: we can turn a modern map upside down so that South is now at the top, and all the directions and locations still correspond and 'relate' in the same way. Or I could turn a map so East is at the top ... same thing.If you look at only one Diagram, then it can be turned anyway one wants ...
thank youSeasons, using the trigram circle I shared, and starting in the East (left side of a map), and moving clockwise:
that's like saying . . .What you're doing and saying here feels contradictory to me: you say "placing north above, imo, is politically motivated" but then you place North at the top, ABOVE you in the south, which I think may imply all kinds of political, religious, racial beliefs and even stereotypes? And this is what you feel comfortable with?
No ... that's not what I'm saying.that's like saying ... don't use a knife to cut vegetables 'cause someone else uses it to kill humans
you know what DBut if you're not convinced, you're not convinced.
i am not convinced by everything said here
i’m just learning and can’t find myself in a pigeon hole
i gotta meditate
I'd accept the standard interpretations of the positions of the trigrams, usually following the Later Heaven cycle.
Well, neither do I. But it's quite likely that the trigram arrangements, including both Later Heaven and Early Heaven, came into existence a fair bit later than the Zhouyi, as people tried to make sense of the trigrams. I don't see anything particularly wrong with people looking at new ways of arranging them, building on what's gone before. In a different thread, we were talking about "Ideal" and "Shadow," and where they came from. I don't think it detracts from any value to say that Karcher came up with them, building on the simultaneous existence of two widely accepted trigram arrangements.And there are other trigram arrangements, but I don't think we need to rearrange them either to make use of them in a different hemisphere.
... it's quite likely that the trigram arrangements, including both Later Heaven and Early Heaven, came into existence a fair bit later than the Zhouyi,
I don't see anything ... wrong with people looking at new ways of arranging them, building on what's gone before. In a different thread, we were talking about "Ideal" and "Shadow," and where they came from.
This is what I mean when I say that the Yi is an evolving, living tradition ...
I have drawn two graphics (Early Heaven representations) to illustrate what i mean. Should Yi interpretations, when we are south of the equator, be seen as I suggest? Or am I …. crazy!
It is a proposition that i put out there - If I am wrong, then i will be educated - if i am right, then i will be assured
Which segues back to the original post. If you want to explore ideas related to using the Yi in different parts of the world, you're part of the tradition of exploring and understanding the Yi.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).