Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
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+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
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You say this as if it is a fact, and yet you can not truly know this... ever!
The fact that the distances do play a role to a degree that can hardly be put down to coincidence suggests that they were aware of the order of planets by closeness to the Sun, whether they thought of them as lights, deities, gems, whatever... it doesn't matter. The correlations exist, and they profoundly connect with the Lo Shu, Taiji, and Wu Xing to bring about the two trigram arrangments. And that is demonstrable as a fact.
hi FrankIt is the Later Heaven and the KWS which is hard to explain using the same assumptions and premises as the Earlier Heaven.
If Sparhawk wants to believe:
So sometimes a theorie is invented but in later times people find why because they have more knowledge. Before it was a intuitive idea, and with more knowledge this theorie is also accepted by science. So it is not always necessary to go back in time to understand the theorie.
So when a theorie is working, it is working. We have an axpression about that: Many roads lead to Rome.
Frank
Found it!
The object is a 'Beaker' from Shandong, Neolithic period, Longshan culture @ 2000 BC 6.25" high make of thin biscuit black pottery. Looks just like an underwater volcanic smoker. Very wierd.
until you put all the ingredients in the pot, including the recorded Chinese knowledge of astronomy about the time the trigram circles were conceived
Just because it isn't in your library doesn't mean it never existed. You say "knowledge that didn't exist at he time" as if this is some fact - it would probably be realistic to say that most of the knowledge in the world during those times has not been recorded in words.What I'm saying is that it cannot be based on knowledge that didn't exist at the time the trigram circles were conceived.
What I'm saying is that it cannot be based on knowledge that didn't exist at the time the trigram circles were conceived.
So lets look at this statement in context:
1) Not all knowledge is recorded
2) That knowledge which is recorded is by no means the only extant understanding of the subject
3) Even during the time of Buddha c.400 BC oral traditions were very popular, and a lot of information, especially the deepest secrets, were normally reserved for oral transmission from Master to the top student.
Your argument lacks integrity here Sparhawk.
Just because it isn't in your library doesn't mean it never existed. You say "knowledge that didn't exist at he time" as if this is some fact - it would probably be realistic to say that most of the knowledge in the world during those times has not been recorded in words.
No, my theory 'hangs' on mathematical facts that could have been known in ancient China via secret techniques that may be lost today, or theorised and incorporated in to existing models. There could have been other more immediate results indicating the value of such a theory (successful predictions of the heavens, etc., based upon relative distances of the main visible astral bodies).you hang your theory on the remote possibility that specific knowledge, in the very specific field of astronomy, was relegated to hidden oral traditions?
Even if my theory is only a contemporary one, the fact is it works, and therefore we have a scientific rooting for the Later Heaven sequence. This is significant enough for me.
Hi Solun,
Do you have link to it? I have a number of books and articles on the Longshan and Liangzhu cultures. I'd like to know if it is in one of them.
Thanks,
The section in Neolithic and Pre-Shang starts out "Till recently the Xia and Shang dynasties were considered mythical, but continuing excavations ..."
Oh my, that's a blast from the past!!!
These 24 signs found in the Xia-dynasty capitol Erlitou are my favourite "blast" reference:
Hi Solun,
Oh my, that's a blast from the past!!!
I love to study the Neolithic cultures of China, BTW. Many people hang on to the idea that polarity/duality started with with the taxonomic concept of yin/yang. Not so, really. The ancient Chinese were carving dualistic motifs in jades and decorating pottery, thousands of years before someone thought of calling them that.
Thanks for the reference.
Heh, thanks. I don't know how to take compliments from you now Sparhawk.
The reason why I think that trigrams are fundamental as the building blocks of hexagrams is the layout of tortoise divination records. Each T-crack is an image and they are placed opposite each other in pairs with the horisontal bar of the T's pointing out and with the vertical stroke of the T's pointing in. That'll say, that two mirrored T-cracks on a plastron are similar to one hexagram."Arguments about how trigram diagrams or numbering can be applied to Later Heaven or KWS aren't relevant unless you believe only trigrams are fundamental." - Frank
I think it's more about them being elemental, rather than fundamental perhaps.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).