57. Sun / The Gentle (The Penetrating, Wind)

rodaki · Jul 10, 2009

hmmm . . ok, I have been thinking recent discussions and I feel the need to explain myself here (in case there are uneven spots left . .)

I really like Charly's takes on the possible meanings of hexagrams and lines; I find -and I've said that already- that they can make food for thought flavorful even if they get a bit too spicy for my taste

blush: too bad other redish emoticons are about anger lol).
At the same time, I feel the need to balance their edge with a different take (must be my Libra thing, probably a bit obsessive on my part :duh:

)
So Charly, excuse me if I got a bit too polemical in my response . .

p.s: oh and I'd like to thank also Pantherpanther who took the time to further explain remarks on 57.2 . .

my_key · Jul 11, 2009

my_key said:
Nine in the third place means:
Repeated penetration. Humiliation.

Penetrating reflection must not be pushed too far, lest it cripple the power of decision. After a matter has been thoroughly pondered, it is essential to form a decision and to act. Repeated deliberation brings fresh doubts and scruples, and thereby humiliation, because one shows oneself unable to act.

So lets have a go at 57.3 - Here we are stuck in our old habits, we are doing the things we have always done and missing the opportunity being given to us by the subtle penetration of love of seeing things in a new way. We know deep inside what needs to be done without having yet found the courage to put the new thoughts and feelings into action.

Looking at the last word Wilhem gives its translation as "humiliation", Karcher as "distress", Richmond as "regret" - quite a range of feelings covered here. Perhaps one key to unlocking the secrets of this line would be to understand this word better.

Mike

rodaki · Jul 11, 2009

my_key said:
Looking at the last word Wilhem gives its translation as "humiliation", Karcher as "distress", Richmond as "regret" - quite a range of feelings covered here. Perhaps one key to unlocking the secrets of this line would be to understand this word better.

Mike

some thoughts on these three terms . .
I'd say 'humiliation' is an effect of ego . . that is the part torn to pieces by a situation where one has to be humble.
'Regret' is a natural feeling where one accepts -unencumbered by a sovereign self- the fact that it's part of human nature to make mistakes, which have to be corrected succinctly to make things flow again.
'Distress' might as well be the process we go through in disengaging from our ideas of self-righteousness -something between 'humiliation' and 'regret'.
As a sidenote, I'd say it's no wonder that it is Wilhelm, the one with the highest tone of set morality, that uses 'humiliation' -it seems that what demands severe rules is our ego part

meng · Jul 12, 2009

rodaki said:
some thoughts on these three terms . .
I'd say 'humiliation' is an effect of ego . . that is the part torn to pieces by a situation where one has to be humble.
'Regret' is a natural feeling where one accepts -unencumbered by a sovereign self- the fact that it's part of human nature to make mistakes, which have to be corrected succinctly to make things flow again.
'Distress' might as well be the process we go through in disengaging from our ideas of self-righteousness -something between 'humiliation' and 'regret'.
As a sidenote, I'd say it's no wonder that it is Wilhelm, the one with the highest tone of set morality, that uses 'humiliation' -it seems that what demands severe rules is our ego part

Good thoughts, Dora. It was from those ideas that (my) Myth Man was created: that toy robot, who thinks he's me.

But I especially like your connection to self righteous and humiliation and regret, and the degree of the later being based on that of the former.

Is it as though the priest must feel more moral weight than the layman? Or is that all only part of the self construct, i.e. Myth Man?

meng · Jul 12, 2009

re 57

You can't penetrate a robot.

my_key · Jul 12, 2009

meng said:
You can't penetrate a robot.

Hi Meng
Nice cartoon. He looks familiar. Is this the same guy who starred as the Tin Man in "The Wizard of Oz"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc5D...E78958D5&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=35

Rodaki - That is a very well considered and thought provoking post. :bows:

I was hoping that Charly or someone would be able to tell what the etymology of the word in Chinese shows as well. Any takers?

Mike

pantherpanther · Jul 12, 2009

my_key said:
So lets have a go at 57.3 - Here we are stuck in our old habits, we are doing the things we have always done and missing the opportunity being given to us by the subtle penetration of love of seeing things in a new way. We know deep inside what needs to be done without having yet found the courage to put the new thoughts and feelings into action.

Looking at the last word Wilhem gives its translation as "humiliation", Karcher as "distress", Richmond as "regret" - quite a range of feelings covered here. Perhaps one key to unlocking the secrets of this line would be to understand this word better.

Mike

>>>>
I am reminded of a teacher saying to a friend, "There's the mountain. What are you waiting for a nice day?"

On the other hand, this gradual work to convince the ego to will its own destruction is essentially preparation for experiencing something else, a reality that is unknown.

An old tale:

God became fascinated by the happiness of a pig, when he observed how much it enjoyed its life in filth. So he entered the pig to see what it was like inside such a creature. Immediately, he was overwhelmed by the delicious sensations flooding the body of the pig. Meanwhile, though, the universe began to need attention, so God's assistants started trying to get him to come out of the pig. He demurred, saying that he wasn't God at all. He was a pig, and please leave him alone. Finally, in desperation, they killed the pig. God came out, apologized, and went back to work.

fkegan · Jul 12, 2009

Taoist or Confucian interpretation?

my_key said:
So lets have a go at 57.3 - Here we are stuck in our old habits, we are doing the things we have always done and missing the opportunity being given to us by the subtle penetration of love of seeing things in a new way. We know deep inside what needs to be done without having yet found the courage to put the new thoughts and feelings into action.

Looking at the last word Wilhem gives its translation as "humiliation", Karcher as "distress", Richmond as "regret" - quite a range of feelings covered here. Perhaps one key to unlocking the secrets of this line would be to understand this word better.

Mike

Gia-fu rendered this line as:

REPEATED BENDING. REGRET. Excessive bending brings exhaustion.

It is a third line place, and therefore an expression of personal passion that exhausts itself changing the hex 57 into hex 59 Solution. Still the same decad and even still within the Tetrad. The change is to increase the y-axis energy like a personal passion pump, which of course can not continue forever. Hopefully bringing some insight or improvement for all the effort.

In the Confucian view, for the proper Imperial bureaucrat, bending so much to pump things up would be a humiliating act of self.

Words are clear focus, therefore their meaning would be controlled by their background context. This a line about exerting oneself to express what one deeply feels. Exhausting and extracting a price of regret as the passion is worked through no matter what. For a proper suit who is expected to sit at his desk and never work up a sweat, humiliating like all manual labor to that class...

Frank

rodaki · Jul 12, 2009

hi all (and thank you for your kind comments :bows

it's taken me some time for your thoughts to sink in . . this subdued but persistently splitting headache doesn't help and I'm bent on not taking medicine -sleep and water didn't work, any remedies anyone perhaps? ugh . . penetration that dissolves can take many shapes and forms I guess!

Bruce's idea on the priest and the layman . .
there is a knot untangled there I think. The problem of priests stop seeing themselves as laymen and vice versa. It's such a wondrous idea conceiving holy and manual work as one and the same . . hard to achieve too, don't know why exactly

Mike your video brought so many thoughts . . you see, I have this idea that self-righteousness does not come from lack of heart, rather it is one of our hearts' vices. The heart is not an immaculate, pure thing for me. Rather both heart and mind are muscles, both need exercise to work well . . To have a feeling mind and a thinking heart, that is my longing -but I know and accept that this is just me, most people see heart and mind under different light

So for me, the Robot/Tin man is a stiff heart, untrained, which produces absurdities . . not rational walls, but irrational, emotional knots. Every time I manage to examine my arrogance with my rational eyes I burst into laughter lol! It's the only logical thing to do . . and thus stiffness dissolves, the heart muscle is first stretched -causing anguish, distress- but once through that it gains in elasticity and suppleness . . I am inclined to see 57.3 (a heart line) as reason trying to penetrate the heart's compulsions and convulsions . .
Maybe the trouble is that we view brain as a computational device, whereas in fact most recent research propose hydraulic rather than computational analogies for the thinking brain (don't want to drag this post even more, but let me know if you'd like more on that . .)

Finally (at last!

), following the Cohen stream . . how about this
(I think it also agrees nicely with Pantherpanther's and Frank's posts . . )
oh . . and my headache just went away

p.s: I too wish Charly would join us and share his knowledge . . hope you're ok dear Charly!

:bows:

my_key · Jul 12, 2009

Rodaki - Cohen's voice has a richness and depth that beggars belief.
The lyrics add to the richness of this line and into the next.

"Villanelle For Our Time"

From bitter searching of the heart,
Quickened with passion and with pain
We rise to play a greater part.
This is the faith from which we start:
Men shall know commonwealth again
From bitter searching of the heart.
We loved the easy and the smart,
But now, with keener hand and brain,
We rise to play a greater part.
The lesser loyalties depart,
And neither race nor creed remain
From bitter searching of the heart.
Not steering by the venal chart
That tricked the mass for private gain,
We rise to play a greater part.
Reshaping narrow law and art
Whose symbols are the millions slain,
From bitter searching of the heart
We rise to play a greater part.

The"feeling mind and thinking heart" theme is a fantastic picture to paint and you have painted it so well.

Headaches are a great thing to be having at the moment

- remember the best way to resolve them is to release the tension. Be creative - write, paint, dance, sew, knit or whatever takes your fancy. You could even feel with the mind and think with the heart.

Mike

rodaki · Jul 12, 2009

Mike

yes . . I bow to the man . .

:bows:

my_key · Jul 12, 2009

rodaki said:
Mike yes . . I bow to the man . .

:bows:

Not too low........

If you feel that the brain analysis posting will help here. Go ahead.

rodaki · Jul 12, 2009

my_key said:
Not too low........

If you feel that the brain analysis posting will help here. Go ahead.

lol!

ok, had to get my books out . . (still not sure if this belongs here or is OT but here it goes . .)

what follows is taken from this book

where, in the end of the book, the authors talk about revising their work towards a 'hydraulic metaphor' which 'encourages us to think about how emotion and motivation can alter information processing', and they go on describing it thus:

Imagine an above ground swimming pool with a hole in the wall just at water level; if the water laps against the sides, a series of pulses of water slosh through the hole. This sequence of sloshes is the output (of brain processes). Also, imagine rocks, of different sizes and shapes, dropping into the pool and causing patterns of waves to spread. The rocks correspond to the input from the senses, and piles of rocks on the bottom correspond to memories; it is clear that the precise pattern of ripples will change as the rocks begin to alter the topography of the bottom. When ripples are modulated by the rocks on the bottom and bounce off the walls, complex patterns of interaction will develop. Indeed, this complexity will be exaggerated when rocks are dropping in multiple places, corresponding to input in multiple sensory modalities.

what this seems to me to be saying is that cognition is not a linear rigid process, but rather a fluid, complex one, that rationality is not a barren land of cold stone but a living, breathing activity resting on an ever-changing grid . . of course I'm no expert here, only dipping my toes . .

rosada · Jul 13, 2009

Dearest Friends,
Thank you all for the birthday greetings!
I am at a friend's grabbing a quick minute on her computer. I just wanted to say hi and I may not be posting regularly again till August so I just wanted everyone to know I am still on the planet.
Much love,
rosada

charly · Jul 14, 2009

rodaki said:
... p.s: I too wish Charly would join us and share his knowledge . . hope you're ok dear Charly!...

Dear Dora:

You'r very generous with your concepts, the mine is no so much knowledge but curiosity. I had little time being too busy with work. I'm pretty OK.

I have no idea why you feel very polemical. Of course I had not feel hurt by none of your responses.

You are a generous person and see that the question about 57.3 and the translation of the word 吝lin4 has to do with generosity.

There is a good report of the key words in LiSe's page, there she translates lin as «distress». But if we look for old meanings at Schuessler, he gives «regret» maybe following Legge as an authoritative source.

This post is also for Mike

my_key said:
...I was hoping that Charly or someone would be able to tell what the etymology of the word in Chinese shows as well ...

Legge translates 吝lin4 mainly as«regret», but in 22.5 he translates «STINGY» that is the usual meaning in modern chinese and even japanese, and this is the word that I use.

Looking at various dictionaries I found: stint, stinted, sparing, cheapskate, skinflint, grudge, closefisted, niggardly, parsimonious, greed...

In the YI the word for «regret/remorse» is 悔 hui3.

I didn't find anything supporting «humiliation».

The character has two components upper 文 wen, cultured (like King Wen) and lower 口 kou mouth.文 wen depicted a big person tattoed in the chest. I wonder if a man of letters or maybe a member of a secret brotherhood.

How did a character composed by cultured man + mouth become to mean STINGY?

from: http://www.chineseetymology.org/Cha...aspx?characterInput=吝&submitButton1=Etymology

In this seal character, the big man is almost riding the mouth, meaning maybe oppression, censorship. In common language as in folk stories plain people use to be models of generosity and powerful or cultured people of geed. Maybe this character represented the conflict between cultured diviners, royal servants, and popular diviners, people that didn't read oracles but only said it.

Fancyful etymolgy, but we can see a big man firmly holding his pocket between his legs, say close wallet. And, of course, 不吝bulin means «generosity».

57.3 characters, pinyin, usual meanings, W/B:

頻 pin2: frequent / repetitious / REPEATED
巽 sun4 : to obey / PENETRATION
吝 lin4: stingy / HUMILIATION

I temporary translate 57.3 so:

URGENT BUG: STINGY
___________________
Incessant, repetitive bugs are stingy
not generous with partners
even maybe nor with themselves
make a pause or vary, please

I have though also that 吝lin4 could be a mere exclamation like «misery!», «porca miseria!», «damn!», «shit!»(1), words of frustration, «distress» souns too modern for my ears.

I wonder what happened in W/B with the gentle, the wind, why 巽 sun4 is now PENETRATION? But this is another story.

Yours,

Charly

___________________________________

(1) maybe rude, but not a bad option:

****: O.E. scitan, from P.Gmc. *skit-, from PIE *skheid- "split, divide, separate." Related to shed (v.) on the notion of "separation" from the body (cf. L. excrementum, from excernere "to separate"). It is thus a cousin to science and conscience... the word was taboo from c.1600 and rarely appeared in print (neither Shakespeare not the KJV has it), and even in "vulgar" publications of the late 18c. it is disguised by dashes. It drew the wrath of censors as late as 1922 ("Ulysses" and "The Enormous Room"), scandalized magazine subscribers in 1957 (a Hemingway story in "Atlantic Monthly") and was omitted from some dictionaries as recently as 1970 ("Webster's New World")... meaning "misfortune, trouble" is attested from 1937.
From: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=****&searchmode=none

my_key · Jul 15, 2009

The character has two components upper 文 wen, cultured (like King Wen) and lower 口 kou mouth.文 wen depicted a big person tattoed in the chest. I wonder if a man of letters or maybe a member of a secret brotherhood.

How did a character composed by cultured man + mouth become to mean STINGY?

from: http://www.chineseetymology.org/Char...ton1=Etymology

In this seal character, the big man is almost riding the mouth, meaning maybe oppression, censorship. In common language as in folk stories plain people use to be models of generosity and powerful or cultured people of geed. Maybe this character represented the conflict between cultured diviners, royal servants, and popular diviners, people that didn't read oracles but only said it.

Hi Charly

Thanks for adding some detail.
When I was reading your post, the picture and your words spoke to me in the shape of a big proud man, a puffed up chest, who see's life through a narrow band. He has become the tattoo on his chest. He voices everything through the narrow band, the band of the ego, and his true voice has taken the lower position. Through his demeanour he is being stingy, he is cheating on himself. Due to the repeated penetration of the gentle wind at line 3 there is emotional change, a realisation- a eureka moment; all the gentle urging that has been going on has culminated in him going through the process of distress. Once he accepts there is a sense of regret - with a desire to make things flow again. To change. The ego will feel humilated, having been totally exposed in such a way. That big tattooed chest is pricked and becomes fully deflated.

Maybe Pantherpanther summarised this too succintly :

I am reminded of a teacher saying to a friend, "There's the mountain. What are you waiting for - a nice day?"
On the other hand, this gradual work to convince the ego to will its own destruction is essentially preparation for experiencing something else, a reality that is unknown.

Mike

my_key · Jul 15, 2009

57.4 - To infinity and beyond?

It's good to hear from Rosada and that things are Ok with here. It's clear she will not be able to post for a little while yet, so let's keep this ball rolling.

Anyone thought how weird it is with all the hoo haa going on in the other threads on Clarity and being in the midst of Hex 57.

Six in the fourth place means:
Remorse vanishes.
During the hunt
Three kinds of game are caught.

When a responsible position and accumulated experience lead one to combine innate modesty with energetic action, great success is assured. The three kinds of animals referred to served for offerings to the gods, for feasting guests, and for everyday consumption. When the catch answered all three purposes, the hunt was considered especially successful.

rodaki · Jul 16, 2009

hi all

glad too to hear Rosada is doing good

Charly, your words are too kind . . what i have to offer comes from my own self-observations which can be misguided, so having your insights about chinese language here keeps the balance between actual translation and personal commentary . . the actual text is the soil, the substance of the Yi anyways, the rest just associations

Mike, I too noticed the connections you mention

, and 57.4's commentary seems to speak directly to the concerns of Shared Readings . . hopefully now that dust is slowly settling down, more people will post their ideas here too . . would love to hear how others see this line (and it's relation to its fan yao . .) could it be that in this upper heart line one finds the strength and means to accept, nourish and attend to everything on offer without oppressing any influence out of worries for troublesome encounters?

I wonder if there's a chinese folk story or historical account about this line . .

rodaki

hollis · Jul 16, 2009

Rosada, have a great time off net. See you in August.

rodaki · Jul 16, 2009

this is what Nigel Richmond says about 57.4:

Here we are able to let go our involvement
in outer matters; we find that inner change
brings nourishment and a widening of horizons.

Regret disappears
Three kinds of game are caught

Three stands for change and the change is in
the kind of game or mode of being that we can
catch. This is a real inner change, not an
outer show, so the regret disappears.

:bows:
rodaki

fkegan · Jul 16, 2009

Hex 57.4 from various www.stars-n-dice.com perspectives

Gia-fu's Taoist Translation for hex 57.4:

REPENT NO MORE. CAPTURE THREE KINDS OF GAME IN THE FIELD. The essence of achievement is to use all the people's talents.

And the corresponding Sabian Symbol, putting the 360 lines in hex 3-62 in relation to the Zodiac circle [with 1 Cancer at the bottom corresponding to hex3.1] yields:

A woman in middle life stands in rapt, sudden realization of forgotten charms, in unexpected recovery of romance

And structurally: hex57.4>> hex 44 Streaks >> Lady Luck developing focus in the heart consolidates the overall process of the 5 Yang lines moving through their natural sequence toward the Next leaving only their roots still not part of the overall process since the first line remains an open Yin line place.

As the feelings of the heart become a clear focus in this timing, overall process develops from being just various thoughts or feelings producing restlessness or inchoate desire for a different direction, toward a definite leap into the possible next. New opportunities open up and a different reality comes into sight or at least is felt at the horizon.

Frank

rodaki · Jul 17, 2009

wow, great three-fold post Frank :bows:

I think I've gotten the bug from Rosada and I always try to see how the lines of Memorizing threads manifest in my day . .
Yesterday was an exhausting day . . . I spent it busying myself with 3s . . but I mistakenly got too engrossed in my undertakings and by nightfall I was feeling absolutely drained . . maybe it goes to say something about 44, a good lesson about it is knowing when to back off, not getting too engaged . .

fkegan · Jul 18, 2009

rodaki said:
wow, great three-fold post Frank :bows:

I think I've gotten the bug from Rosada and I always try to see how the lines of Memorizing threads manifest in my day . .
Yesterday was an exhausting day . . . I spent it busying myself with 3s . . but I mistakenly got too engrossed in my undertakings and by nightfall I was feeling absolutely drained . . maybe it goes to say something about 44, a good lesson about it is knowing when to back off, not getting too engaged . .

Hi Dora,
Thank you for your kind appreciation. Finding your life reflected in the Yi line you are considering can bring many things into your experience. You note one of the realities of hunting until you bag three kinds of game--it may be very successful, but it is also a long and tiring enterprise. It also tends towards the resultant hex 44 which is a tough meeting with The Other which requires a lot of centering and effort to not get entangled.

Frank

my_key · Jul 18, 2009

When a responsible position and accumulated experience lead one to combine innate modesty with energetic action, great success is assured. The three kinds of animals referred to served for offerings to the gods, for feasting guests, and for everyday consumption. When the catch answered all three purposes, the hunt was considered especially successful.

57.4 -
In the Wang Bi interpretation of this line:
"This ones regret vanishes for in hunting he catches the 3 catagories"

The first is called 'dried meat' for the dou sacrificial vessel, the second is called 'meat for honoured guests and the third is called ' provisions for the sovereigns kitchens'.

This seems to align with Wilhelms general description, however, has anybody anything they can add to make these 3 categories, types of game more digestable?

Mike

my_key · Jul 19, 2009

Been giving my own question a bit more thought today.
The 3 categories are the 3 levels on which change operates earth, man and heaven. So perhaps there is a sense at 57.4 of all the distress, regrets and humiliation that we have gone through at the inner change levels being accepted. We take the opportunity for changes on board and the new levels that we obtain are poised to flow out into our outer life.
"To infinity and beyond " seems a stepping stone into 57.5.

Mike

my_key · Jul 19, 2009

Nine in the fifth place means:
Perseverance brings good fortune.
Remorse vanishes.
Nothing that doesn't further.
No beginning, but an end.
Before the change, three days.
After the change, three days.
Good fortune.

In the situation described in Ku, WORK ON WHAT HAS BEEN SPOILED (18), an entirely new point of departure must be set up, whereas here it's only a question of reforms. The beginning has not been good, but the moment has been reached when a new direction can be taken. Change and improvement are called for. Such steps must be undertaken with steadfastness, that is, with a firm and correct attitude of mind; then they will succeed, and remorse will disappear. But it must be remembered that such improvements require careful consideration. Before a change is made, it must be pondered over again and again. After the change is made, it's necessary to note carefully for some time after how the improvements bear the test of actuality. Such careful work is accompanied by good fortune.

charly · Jul 20, 2009

my_key said:
57.4 -
In the Wang Bi interpretation of this line:
"This ones regret vanishes for in hunting he catches the 3 catagories"
... types of game more digestable?

Mike:

Maybe Lynn is trying to be more literal than W/B but some hidden assumptions remained:

悔 hui3: regret /
亡 wang2: to die / to perish / to disappear

田 tian2 : field / farm /
獲 huo4: to catch / to obtain / to capture /
三 san1: three / 3 /
品 pin3: type / category / grade / thing / product / good /

The two assumptions are:

1) to believe that the only thing that one can do in the field is to hunt, nothing of looking for adventure, magic or another sort of pleasure.

2) related to the first, that 品 pin3 only could mean "type", "category" while the the character depicts three piled things, thus order, hyerarchy, type, category but usually things, goods, pieces, say commodities.

A literal rendering:

→ In the FIELD, CATCH THREE TYPES of ......................

Some people believe that the phrase must end with GAME, FOOD, but if we translate TYPE, the phrase will remain incomplete, maybe for each fill it with the preferred association.

Another:

→ In the FIELD, CATCH THREE PIECES.

Now it's complete. It could be PIECES, THINGS, GOODS... But each must imagine what sort of things he must get.

I remember in Schuessler a character with three components, WOMAN + CONTAINER + EGGS (of course 品) that meant to incubate, to warm EGGS, and also an OLD WOMAN (say the woman sat in the bag of eggs = no more fertile)

What if 品 pin3 meant EGGS (origin of beings) or CUBS (temporary weak but potential helpers)?

品 pin3 also could mean WISHES, DESIRES...

→ In the FIELD FULFILL THREE WISHES...

The FIELD is not only field for hunting, maybe is only the PLACE WHERE REAL THINGS HAPPEN , in the PRACTICE, in the REAL LIFE, in the MOMENT OF TRUTH, or even in the SANDS...

And if we translate 品 pin3 as THINGS or better THREE-PIECES, the list of things can include:

PIECES, SCRAPS, STONES, BONES, BEADDS, COWRIES, even COINS, say things used for DIVINATION.

→ In the SANDS, GET THREE times THREE-PIECES

Cast the coins, throw the scraps or the bones, say GEOMANCY, get a TRIGRAM.

We must fill in the dots, then the advice can be:

Divinate, consult, get undestanding, remorse doesn't go to be forever, but if you don't get understanding of your own behavior ...

Go to the origins, get help being generous, don't kill the fowl of the golden eggs.

In the field, fulfill your wishes, but get three, get enough ...

品 pin3 even sounds close to pin = FEMALE, in the field catch three females...

If we only want pieces of hunting, say dead deers, dead pheasants, dead foxes, that is what we should get.

Yours,

Charly

my_key · Jul 21, 2009

Hi Charly

悔 hui3: regret /
亡 wang2: to die / to perish / to disappear

田 tian2 : field / farm /
獲 huo4: to catch / to obtain / to capture /
三 san1: three / 3 /
品 pin3: type / category / grade / thing / product / good /

Another interesting etymologocal journey. Your assumptions and the flight beyond takes a bit of following through but I think I get the jist of the spiritual/magical element that can be involved in this line, or maybe is integral in this line. The "field / farm" connection rather than the "field /hunting" connection sets a tone of cultivation and growing rather than capturing and killing the 3 prizes.

While we may have captured / reclaimed our destiny. A part of us that was missing / lost is being reborn (No 3) and is now theer to be nurtured and developed. Reading back Frank's post looks to contain a little gem.

REPENT NO MORE. CAPTURE THREE KINDS OF GAME IN THE FIELD. The essence of achievement is to use all the people's talents.

The prizes , our rediscovered talents allow us to step into new fields and opportunities of achievement in the earth, human and heavenly realms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7pvA4EHi08

Mike

charly · Jul 21, 2009

my_key said:
...The "field / farm" connection rather than the "field /hunting" connection sets a tone of cultivation and growing rather than capturing and killing the 3 prizes.
...

Mike:

I like too much your connection althoug I don't trust too much in self cultivation, I use to prefer something like catch the opportunities at the fly, be open to catch the gift that you're often offered, the unmerited gifts always at your disposition.

P.D. I believe that 品 pin has also something to do with fertility:

嫗 yu: «(of birds) to sit on eggs, to incubate, to worm with the body (as mother and child or the earth all things to make them grow» [Schuessler] (1)

傴 yu: → «Gou» [dog, puppy. Schuessler] / «hunchback» [maybe figuratedly «background» or even «courage»] (2)

Yours,

Charly

_______________
(1) WOMAN + CONTINER + PIN: to take care bodily like a mother.
(2) MAN + CONTAINER + PIN: to be manly, to put strong disposition (I don't dare to say how it's said in my country)

my_key · Jul 21, 2009

I like too much your connection althoug I don't trust too much in self cultivation, I use to prefer something like catch the opportunities at the fly, be open to catch the gift that you're often offered, the unmerited gifts always at your disposition.

I would agree with what seems to be a whole range of ways in which we can come upon these opportunities and see them on all sorts of levels.

It's interesting what LISe says of 57.4 "When something is accomplished, that is not the end. Let it live on, so it blends in with your life. Give feelings a chance to be expressed and shared, hope and pride to be seen, deeds to be acknowledged. Celebrate everything, nothing is insignificant, nothing should pass unnoticed and get forgotten."

This seems to bring together a capturing of the moment and a cultivation / growth and celebration of the feelings found in the moment. Another view on bringing together the 3 types of game.

(2) MAN + CONTAINER + PIN: to be manly, to put strong disposition (I don't dare to say how it's said in my country)

How does "putting lead in your pencil" fit?

Mike

57. Sun / The Gentle (The Penetrating, Wind)

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