I think Karcher got 13.2 right in Total I Ching. (The more I dip into that book, the better it gets.) I've always put a sort of negative spin on that line, but Karcher says: "Distress is the way...This is exactly the right feeling to have. As you think about it you will see the right way to act."

It is, after all, strongly connected with Hex 1. It's the only yin in the whole hexagram, too - it's out of step with the others, not resonating with them, hence the distress. (What Karcher calls 'distress' I render as 'shame', but the general idea's the same.)

Thoughts?

13.1 Fellowship with men before the door.
13.2 Fellowship with men in the clan. Humiliation.

I read this as describing those times when you're hanging out in front of the school with all your peers acting totally cool and then your mom drives up and says "Hi Honey-Bunny, hippity-hop in!" and you just want to die.

r.

I read this as describing those times when you're hanging out in front of the school with all your peers acting totally cool and then your mom drives up and says "Hi Honey-Bunny, hippity-hop in!" and you just want to die.

Click to expand...

lol! This is great.

Actually got this one on a reading last month about what career field I was likely to find work in. I've never had a set career track and then spent six years as a stay-at-home mom. So nothing easily fits me, even for the purposes of a job search. I don't "slot" neatly into anyone's open spot.

Recently spent a few days in Chicago visiting an old friend, and there felt this incredible sense of possibility and uplift. My skills/experience are better suited for a bigger city, but I'm currently bound to the town where my ex is based, as he provides most of financial support for our daughter.

But when I asked about the potential of moving to Chicago and got 56.5>33. This is interesting because part of my personal (and professional) problem right now is I just don't feel at home in the culture here.

dobro said:

... 13.2 ... It's the only yin in the whole hexagram, too - it's out of step with the others, not resonating with them, hence the distress. (What Karcher calls 'distress' I render as 'shame', but the general idea's the same.)

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

Dobro:

I have posted something in this thread:

charly said:

Legge translates 吝lin4 mainly as«regret», but in 22.5 he translates «STINGY» that is the usual meaning in modern chinese and even japanese, and this is the word that I use.

Click to expand...

W/B: Fellowship with men in the clan. Humiliation.

同tong2 / like / same / similar / together / alike / with / FELLOWSHIP
人ren2 / man / person / people / with MEN
于yu2 / at / to / IN
宗zong1 / school / sect / purpose / model / ancestor / family / the CLAN

吝lin4 / stingy / greed (Budhism) / HUMILIATION.

Maybe DISTRESS or SHAME goes better that HUMILIATION, but all depends on the sense you give to the line and to the whole hexagram.

I believe that FELLOSHIP WITH MEN is not a good translation.

Although ren2 sometimes means MAN, it mainly means HUMAN PERSON, so it's applied for men and women, it is often used after a noun for making a bisyllabic word like:

• 夫人 fū ren: lady / madam /
• 妇人 fù rén: married woman
• 港人 gǎng rén: Hong Kong person or people
• 跟人 gēn rén: an attendant, a follower
• 工人 gōng rén: worker
• 宫人 gōng rén: female attendants at court
• 古人 gǔ rén: people from ancient times

If you google at www.Baike.Baidu.com the only meaning you see in english is «fellow workers; colleagues; brothers; fraternity». (1)

Maybe a better translation for 同人 tong ren is something like FELLOWS or COMRADES, groups of compatible people, even, maybe, youngs able for mating.

All's OK, but not at the ANCESTRAL SHRINE, please! (2)

Maybe something related with INCEST TABOO or AGAINST ENDOGAMY or also applied in a military context to IRREGULAR FORCES although sometimes allied, keep far from our homes.

Yours,


Charly


___________________________
(1) Dōjinshi 同人誌 are japanese self published comics, sometimes not for all sort of public. If you look for images too much will be MANGA, say japanese comics.

(2) Brigands making their things at the ancestral shrine, SH_T !!!

Hi Dobro

Yes Karcher has a good take on this.
He calls 13.2 Distress in the Way
There is perhaps a sense of the distress coming from the seeing things for what they really are. The ancestors have cut through the illusions for you.

The distress comes from a remorse and a regret that one has waited so long to see this and to do something about it. Now is the time to strike while the iron is hot.

Mike