1.2.4> 37 an old flame

[kestrelw1ngs]

Hello all - .the situationship I posted much about has stabilized unexpectedly, with a health crisis & unprompted sincere apology, accountability and repair being done from X over the disrespect & emotional cruelty etc.
Much casting of hex 8 and 13. I feel a bit silly about oversharing so many details, but what can you do.
while this is a surprise and a relief, the romantic aspect is certainly over & dead, it is just nice to not feel so much unresolved emotion and be able to assist each other practically.

Finding peace in my own healing. It is good to be single and focused on healing & moving forward right now. I feel very exhausted but positive.


However.... someone from my past keeps coming to mind.

The only truly healthy love I experienced, but turned away and treated him quite badly to choose my abuser at the time.

He was an artist who developed feelings first, was quite enamored. Attractive, a gentleman, stable, cared about me, helped me accomplish artistic goals, we had fun and he had his own life, willing to share... everything was compatible and I had so much fun with him. After awhile of our fling he professed love which was what led me to reject him.

Of course he moved on after my rejection but we met a few times after that and he was still sweet, and seemed sad. I got the sense there was still something there. But I was bitter and selfish...

Well, now I am in Codependents Anonymous and beginning to work the steps, making amends to those we have hurt. I keep thinking of him. And whether or not to reach out, at least to apologize.

I can't lie however there is a hope there that he might be available, now that I can recognize a good and healthy relationship and am done chasing emotionally unavailable people, for something more mature, where I could open & return the love he was willing to give before.

So I asked You sincerely:
Give me an image of reaching out to J?

1.2.4> 37

This seems like a wonderful reading for a relationship but maybe perhaps it is not the time?
Wait for a bit? I would understand I'm not ready for another relationship for awhile.
Something is stirring but not quite there...or could it be telling me he's "the one that got away"?

Many thanks for your interpretation assistance

 

[Liselle]

Glad things are a little better with X!

I don't think the reading's saying to wait. That wouldn't be like hexagram 1. I think it's just not guaranteeing anything - probably fair enough.

Line 4 could probably mean a lot of things - from something that never really takes off, to a "dance" of sorts that's perfectly normal for a new (or rekindled) relationship. There's some uncertainty, maybe a pause to get one's bearings, things like that.

Not sure what to make of 37. It's often about keeping order in the home, everyone fulfilling their roles.

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

Glad things are a little better with X!

I don't think the reading's saying to wait. That wouldn't be like hexagram 1. I think it's just not guaranteeing anything - probably fair enough.

Line 4 could probably mean a lot of things - from something that never really takes off, to a "dance" of sorts that's perfectly normal for a new (or rekindled) relationship. There's some uncertainty, maybe a pause to get one's bearings, things like that.

Not sure what to make of 37. It's often about keeping order in the home, everyone fulfilling their roles.

thank you! it feels different now.

I reflected on this thread a bit - reaching out in hopes to reconnect is rather self-centered, could be manipulative and so is apologizing just to alleviate guilt. I am sure my actions hurt him, and it is very possible he would not want to 'try again.' its worth sitting with my motivations. I sincerely regret my actions but an apology can't be "loaded"

could be the reading is just a picture of considering taking action -
1.2 a dragon (idea), an image of consulting the oracle, therapist, forums (the great man)...or just showing i'm thinking of a serious, creative man
1.4 deliberating. the way of the sage, seclusion, or the way of showing myself. whichever way i chose is up to me. a series of small initiatives.

well, how can Yi tell what will happen! I either message him or I don't. He either responds or doesn't. from there it is more small decisions leading to wherever it goes, or a dead end. 1.4

I reevaluated my question and asked "what is the lesson of past relationship w J"
57.1.2.4> 13


I've gotten 57.2 recently for something else related to sexuality. It seems to suggest consulting other sources than oracles. I wonder what the "records" are - maybe just the facts of the situation.

57.4, too. those pesky "three types of game" - maybe the different kinds of love and friendly relationships that are available in the "field"

Hm.

 

[rosada]

Image of reaching out to J:
1.2 " Superior man appearing in the field. It furthers one to see the man."
You recognize his true qualities and it would benefit you to reach out to him.
1.4 "Wavering. Perseverance furthers"
You are uncertain how to proceed yet it appears any effort is appreciated and appropriate. No need to over think this one.
37. Family. "The perseverance of a woman furthers. Her words are substantial and her actions are consistent."
Just stick to the facts and follow through on this idea.
Also, someone once said, "Home is where when you go there, they have to take you in," so to get 37. Family as your resulting hexagram would seem to me a very positive image for things ending with your friend welcoming your communication.

All together I think this is very encouraging for reaching out to your friend. Maybe something very basic like, "I'm in a 12 step program now and one of the things we're encouraged to do is to apologize for past actions in relationships. Can we meet for a cup of coffee?"

I don't see anything in this reading that would say don't do this or wait. More like 1.4 is recognizing you are uncertain but you are still encouraged to make the effort.

 

[Liselle]

I reflected on this thread a bit - reaching out in hopes to reconnect is rather self-centered, could be manipulative and so is apologizing just to alleviate guilt. I am sure my actions hurt him, and it is very possible he would not want to 'try again.' its worth sitting with my motivations. I sincerely regret my actions but an apology can't be "loaded"

This is a good point, and now I'm confused about the reading. Maybe the wavering in line 4 is your own. If you meet him with all of this in your mind, it might make you self-conscious or ill at ease in odd ways, which he might pick up on. Maybe there's a message in the fact that Yi stopped the reading just short of line 5, the dragon fully taking flight.

On the other hand as Rosada said it's hard to look at the reading at face value and not see some kind of encouragement. Maybe it just needs more time, as you said in the first place. Maybe wait till your emotions are more settled? Your break-up is still pretty fresh.

I don't know what to make of your 2nd reading.

 

[rosada]

I'll give it a shot...
What is the lesson of past relationship with J?
57.1.2.4. - 13.

I think it was/is a lesson on how to go about getting to know someone at a deeper than superficial level.

57.1.2.4. Deep relationships develop gradually.
57.1 First there is a lot of darting in and out. Do you like this? I'll do more. Do you not like that? I wont do it so much.
57.2 Then we have to know the simple facts. Where were you born? What's your favorite color? Just ask all sorts of questions. Find what you can build on.
57.4 A wonderfully positive line. Just keep talking and you can't help to learn all sorts of positive things, which leads to...

13. Fellowship with men IN THE WILD. We are not talking about getting acquainted with people from our own tribe here where we know all the unspoken rules and rituals. No, this is lesson in creating a relationship with a stranger, someone who is outside your clan, a wild man whose words and actions are suspect until you've gotten to know each other better.
Maybe having a boyfriend who treated you well was such a new experience you didn't think you could trust it!

 

[my_key]

What is the lesson of past relationship with J?
57.1.2.4. - 13.

The challenge for you in your past relationship with J was to find agreement on the important issues and not being swayed and taken off course by matters of lesser importance. If you have learnt your lessons from this experience you will now be better positioned to see the more subtle connections that grow up through/out of relationship.

The lesson, if embraced, can allow you to use your new understanding more effectively as you go forward (57).

You will be able to see matters of conflict sooner and address situations more confidently and appropriately (57.1). You will be better positioned to discover the deeper wisdom in the situation either through your own insights or through listening to others more (57.2). These new ways will better support you to find what you are really looking for (57.4) especially if you are able to bring more moments of harmony into your world. Celebrate difference and accommodate it, rather that attempting to paint everything you encounter all with the same colour (13).

...or it might mean nothing like this at all for you.

Good Luck

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

Wow, thank you, these interpretations have given me some heart...and penetration to the heart of the matter. Rosada, yes I do think that was it - he was from outside my main circles, tried to bring him in but I think he could tell all of it was under the influence of my charismatic bully 'partner' and I was still confusing obsession with love. Had no idea how to respond to being treated well.

I do believe my motivations are sincere, I'd simply like him to know in retrospect that his kindness stuck with me and clean up the mess I left behind.

My_key, that is somehow exactly the lesson both my relationship with X and this one with J are making me think of.

Being more aware of subtle connections and not being so hard & heavy, trying to "match" people but connecting from a place of I am me, you are you, and letting the connection flow in and out between us as an exchange of energy.

Not collapsing in on people, but a more gentle 'penetration,' slowly deepening the connection by pacing, respecting boundaries.

Sort of what the codependency recovery program teaches. With X, we really could have had a nice connection if that lesson had already been learned, but what can you do about youthful inexperience & immaturity except move forward gracefully, minimize destruction!

I will sleep on it a bit to prepare but do plan to message him.

 

[rosada]

You might get value from asking the I Ching what your message should say. Might not trigger any insights but on the other hand it might...

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

Well, I asked the Yi what should my message be.

61. Inner Trust​

Line 2:​

A crane makes sounds in the shadows,
her young responds to it.
I have a fine flagon of wine,
me and you together will waste it.

Being close and connected to someone in a relationship of sharing.

Line 4:​

The moon is nearly full.
One of the pair of horses runs away.
Without fault.

One goes one's own way, in order to be true to oneself. This is a good moment for that. It is not wrong to do so.
(The moon being nearly full, means that the amount of light at night is at this maximum the coming days. Things are at its clearest now.)

Hexagram is changing to:​

25. Without Pretense​

Without pretense.
A foundation for progress.
It is beneficial to persist.
In fact, not being pure is a severe mistake.
It is a disadvantage to have a goal to move to.

Being oneself, natural, without making an effort to appear different than one really is. This makes real progress possible. It's beneficial to continue being this way. Not being thus is in fact a severe mistake. Pursuing a goal may make it necessary to go against one's feelings, so this is a disadvantage to being oneself.

really beautiful result. I take it as being sincere but not putting any hope in something coming of a message. The fine flagon of wine makes me think inviting him out for coffee or a drink would be a good gesture.

 

[Liselle]

Sounds to me like it could be a balancing act. Expressing inner truth and sincerity, but at the same time maintaining detachment (25).

Hilary has attached a bit of a public service announcment to 61.2 in WikiWing (the underlined part):

The crane calls her young one to a safer place; the wine-cup is shaped like a bird, and these two parts of the line are parallel, images for a single act of profound sharing. A true soul-level connection. (Which is not to be confused with a fully-realised successful relationship.) The important thing is to make contact - not to convey specific information, but as an empathic connection.

She did that because, unsurprisingly, people were being taken in by 61.2's beautiful language and concluding Yi was promising the moon, sun, and stars. Sounds like you already understood, though:

I take it as being sincere but not putting any hope in something coming of a message.

This might be too specific, but I wonder if 61.4 could mean this initial contact will end without any plans being made for getting together again? And that is "without fault."

 

[Trojina]

Nothing to do with the readings but be careful you don't build up such a beautiful picture of this relationship it falls short on reality. I have seen this over and over again here with relationship questions, one guy flew out to meet his lover on the strength of I Ching readings and they had nothing in common and it didn't work.

Also beware making a narrative wholly where you were bad and he was good.


I mean yes take the readings into account but stay close to the reality at the same time. I say this not to be a miserable meanie but because I'm getting worried about how much this is being built up. It's being built up on this thread to the point where a dose of reality is needed in case of that old relationship question syndrome where the answers don't manifest as envisaged.

Why not just get in touch simply and see his response before further questions. I don't think you or anyone should build this up more without talking to him.

I maybe repeating things as not read all replies. The longer you leave it and the more it's built up the harder it could be when it doesn't go as planned so it's him to talk to next. It could go just as well as people are making out, I hope it does, but check in with him about this before more build up.

 

[Liselle]

This might be too specific, but I wonder if 61.4 could mean this initial contact will end without any plans being made for getting together again? And that is "without fault."

Of course there could be various other forms of "moving on" at work here. You moved on (from him to X), now you're moving on from X, and/or maybe he has moved on, in the meantime.

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

Nothing to do with the readings but be careful you don't build up such a beautiful picture of this relationship it falls short on reality. I have seen this over and over again here with relationship questions, one guy flew out to meet his lover on the strength of I Ching readings and they had nothing in common and it didn't work.

Also beware making a narrative wholly where you were bad and he was good.


I mean yes take the readings into account but stay close to the reality at the same time. I say this not to be a miserable meanie but because I'm getting worried about how much this is being built up. It's being built up on this thread to the point where a dose of reality is needed in case of that old relationship question syndrome where the answers don't manifest as envisaged.

Why not just get in touch simply and see his response before further questions. I don't think you or anyone should build this up more without talking to him.

I maybe repeating things as not read all replies. The longer you leave it and the more it's built up the harder it could be when it doesn't go as planned so it's him to talk to next. It could go just as well as people are making out, I hope it does, but check in with him about this before more build up.

Yes, I am catching myself in this. The moving on from X has simply brought u reflections about the past. For a moment I built hopes up but they are settling down again with a hard *thunk* once reality settles in that I am losing myself in fantasy again.

The Yi has given me several very stern readings today, all iterations of 54, 62.
54.6 and 62.6 specifically.
Danger is still not passed in my situation even though it is being managed at the moment. I am walking a fine line until the situation is actually over.
Fantasy may help with survival motivation, but it can't be allowed to distort vision of the facts.

Regardless of the message I send, moving on emotionally "without fault" feels right, if very difficult for my romantic mind.

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

Hilary has attached a bit of a public service announcment to 61.2 in WikiWing (the underlined part):
She did that because, unsurprisingly, people were being taken in by 61.2's beautiful language and concluding Yi was promising the moon, sun, and stars. Sounds like you already understood, though:

yes, I made that error with X after receiving the line several times. Its very tempting to get one's hopes up over poetry.
I've seen in other threads 61.2 referred to as a parental sort of love. Maybe a broader more agape sort of spiritual fellowship. I like to live in that space but...yeah that line has never led to anything practically worthwhile in my experience.
Just love for love's sake. I've actually seen a crane flitting in the shadows several times on a walk, interpreted it as a good omen, and nothing came of the superstition. That was before even meeting the Yijing. Good luck and love feelings are fleeting.

Somehow 61.2 reminds me of Hex 55, with the noontime abundance at noon, but imagery of an eclipse that makes the truth hard to see. There is something generous and abundant present, but its at its zenith now, decline soon to come.
The wine-drunk night of love professions can't occlude the hangover next morning...

Suppose that's why we have ibuprofen, and forums!

 

[Liselle]

Except in 55, something did come of it - the Zhou defeated the Shang, which was a very big deal.

I can see the "shadows/eclipse/hidden" similarity, though, which I'd never noticed before. Will have to think about it.

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

I was mostly thinking of the Hu Gua, 28. As in there is something ponderous, massive about hex 55 it may seem great but the shadow element may be overwhelming.

“When the sun stands at midday, it begins to set: be not sad. The fullness and emptiness of life wax and wane in the course of time.”

Similarity to 61.2 is topical or poetic, not based on any systematic connection. Something about the shadow, the abundance that is passing by. There is a strong feeling in it that doesn't lend well to being grasped. Temporary fullness?

Both 55 uc and 61.2 leave me with a bit of melancholy. Though the latter feels "lighter" like a picnic by the creek, crane in the dappled shadows. 55 is full of sun/eclipse imagery, more likd standing in the middle of a field at noon. Getting a bit sun dazed.

I bring 55 up only because it's come up quite a few times around my love life. There's a lesson in transience in there somewhere...

Just indulging the urge to wax poetic