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11:1,3,6-4

edge

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hello,
following on from my question about my partner's plans to move to my city...I asked what will happen with our relationship when he does? 11:1,3,6 to 4.
Intuitively it seemed to suggest that thing would move forward positively but 11:6 suggests some pretty serious ups and downs...also having read Topal's thread on 11:6 (http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=10071) it seems like it may even indicate a complete reversal or disintegration! Other ways of interpreting 11:6 seem to indicate that 'walls will come down between us' or that it means the relationship will become more real and honest and about what we or I really want...hmmm...:duh:
as always 4 felt like a reminder not to ask so many questions and to accept that things are never simple, but I always get confused by 4...
I'm pretty confused generally in fact and slightly panicked by the thought of wanting something for so long which is likely to fall apart just when it seems to be getting better!! So in the light of recent discussions, I'd love to hear what others think is a good way to interpret these lines!
Thanks,
E
 
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tigerintheboat

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hello,
following on from my question about my partner's plans to move to my city...I asked what will happen with our relationship when he does? 11:1,3,6 to 4.
Intuitively it seemed to suggest that thing would move forward positively but 11:6 suggests some pretty serious ups and downs...also having read Topal's thread on 11:6 (http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=10071) it seems like it may even indicate a complete reversal or disintegration!
Yes, that is how I would take, that the prediction is that in its current form, the relationship will not survive.

Line 1, things are complex, more so than they look on the surface. Many things are connected below the surface that are not obviously connected above.

Line 3, "Nothing is all smooth going; nothing is all in a straight line. Why expect this to be?" Lots of ups and downs!

Line 6: "A pleasant persona or a workable arrangement you had built up over a period of time has suddenly collapsed. Your facade has been breached. You are likely to feel intense fear, guilt, shame, or mortification. " The line suggest that you need to spend time re-establishing your own "capital city" or base of operations. "Constancy in trying to persist in what you built before would bring shame."

Sorry, this is not a hopeful reading. It does not mean that the relationship must disintegrate, but certainly some walls are coming down and there will be pain associated with that.

Tiger

 

edge

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Thanks for your thoughts Tiger, doesn't sound like much fun, does it! Also doesn't sound completely unlikely though as I imagine suddenly finding ourselves in the same city will bring about certain pressures and difficulties, even if its what we both want. There will be quite a lot of adjustment on both sides, being realistic...
To get a bit more clarity, I asked, what will be the best way to deal with 11:1,3,6? I received: 31:3,4 to 8, which also makes a lot of sense. Couple of things jumped out at me (from Huang):

31:3 "Mutual Influence has reached the thighs, which indicates that one is ready to move. On the other hand, because one at this place is at the top of the inner gua, Mountain (keeping still), one needs patience to wait until the other party is ready. For mutual influence, the worst thing is to take reckless action."
31:4 "One at this place needs to work on the heart, feeling....Only by being steadfast and upright will one's regret dissappear, this is a yang element at a yin place, an unsettled mind....the message is that one should eliminate selfish intentions and become open and honest, the hesitation will disappear."

From 8: "this gua expounds the importance of loving and caring in a union, people living close together must love and care about each other"

feels like quite a helpful answer to how do deal with a difficult relationship situation!!!
E
 

ginnie

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H31.3.4 > 8. You want to be able to rely on this person. There are several difficulties, however. One is that you 'are following someone who is following you.' How can the results of this be positive? There has always been about this line for me a sense of wasting my time or undervaluing either myself or my time, too.

And 31.4 points to those of us who make our most important decisions based mainly on how we feel, our emotions. When I'm feeling good, I say yes, come here. When I don't feel good, I say no, stay away from me. Emotional inconsistency. It can be attractive at a distance. How attractive would it be if you needed this person to help you out for some reason, though, and they just couldn't manage to come through for you?

Such a person is not a bad person, but they are extremely difficult to live with.

In my experience, what happens in a H11.6 moment is not so important in and of itself, but it can be emotionally significant. The wall crumbles, and someone can feel terribly ashamed. Something they wanted to be hidden has been totally revealed. How significant is that incident? Hard to say.

It is interesting to me that the pattern of change is that the Outer is H22 and the Inner is H47 (from the work of Stephen Karcher). H47 is connected with weariness, if not sheer exhaustion. H22 is connected with external appearances.

With regard to that H22, one day I might start a thread about people making plans based upon long distance relationships. If you mainly know someone long distance, do you really know them? I don't think so. You only can know how they represent themselves. H22 often has to do with how we speak about ourselves or present ourselves in general.

That is our persona, the mask each of us wears before the world. But when we decide to live with someone, we are not going to be living with their mask or their persona. We'll be living with the person himself.
 
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ginnie

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I just re-read my post above, and I see I was assuming you would be living together, when you simply wrote you'd be living in the same city.

We always hope our plans will succeed . . . in making us happier.

But I think the message of line 3 moving in hexagram 11 is that only living in the now, in the moment, can ever make us truly happy.

And if I received a hexagram 4 as my relating hex, I'd be really worried, Edge. Maybe it's not too late for you to re-frame some of these plans? :bows:
 

edge

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Hi Ginnie,
it just gets worse, doesn't it! Thank you for your interpretation, its certainly made me think. I'm not too worried though, he definitely isn't moving in with me, in fact the move to my city is not even entirely about me, I'm sure I'm a benefit, but we haven't been together long enough (and we are both too old) to make plans that serious based on a long distance relationship. Its very important for his career that he moves somewhere much bigger, which I think right now is pretty significant for him. The move will simply allow us to see if the relationship can work, which right now, being so long distance, it can't. So, if the worst does happen, and it all goes horribly wrong, I will still have my home and my stability and my friends and family and a job that I love...I'll just be heartbroken, which always really hurts! Think its worth still giving it a go though, as calling a halt to the entire relationship because of this reading now would feel a little premature...
Thanks again,
E
 

Trojina

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I just re-read my post above, and I see I was assuming you would be living together, when you simply wrote you'd be living in the same city.

We always hope our plans will succeed . . . in making us happier.

But I think the message of line 3 moving in hexagram 11 is that only living in the now, in the moment, can ever make us truly happy.

And if I received a hexagram 4 as my relating hex, I'd be really worried, Edge. Maybe it's not too late for you to re-frame some of these plans? :bows:

:confused: why ?
 
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Trojina

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Edge are you sure he wants to move to your city or that he'll be happier in that city ? Its just when lines 1 and 6 change together I tend to see a pattern of episodic events...like he comes,,,he doesn't like it, he goes (11 lines) and all this was based on he didn't really have a clue about the city you live in (4) didn't know what it would feel like to be there, etc etc.

When lines 1 and 6 change the whole of experience is encapsulated (by which i mean you get the beginning, middle and end in one) so to speak..and it can signify IMO something being over and done with quite quickly. i dont mean the relationship is done with quickly, but i see how he feels about the city being a big factor here possibly overriding his feelings about the relationship. Theres 2 big factors isn't there , how he feels about the move and how he feels about you.

The answer may not refer to how he feels about the city...I'm just groping in the dark as we always do with others readings.

But as you aren't yet clear what the 11>4 refers to how can you ask about how to deal with it ? anyway 31>8 in general seems to me about commiting or not...but as its based on the assumption of what 11>4 meant then why take it into account anyway
 
M

meng

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I think the original reading means that you don't know what to expect, and that it will likely not be what you both have previously built it up or imagined it to be.

I could understand some apprehension over this development, but based on 11 and 4, I'd approach it as a new chapter with good potentials.
 
M

meng

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I think the second reading reflects your state of mind(s?) and conversations you're having about it. There's talk about it, there's inner movement over it (even some turmoil), but as yet, neither of you know how this closer union will turn out.
 

edge

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Thank you Meng, your slightly less catastrophic interpretation is much appreciated! I think its easy to get a bit hysterical with a reading like this and decide that everything is doomed (DOOOMED), when in fact it may be true that there are difficulties ahead, but living in the moment is quite important too.
Trojan, thank you for your thoughts too. In answer to your question, moving is entirely his decision, I haven't asked him to or even suggested it. He has come to a big crossroads in his life and its a new direction he wants to try. He already works for an organisation based here so works and stays in the city at least twice a month and has done for a couple of years (which is how we met), so its not exactly unknown territory. Of course the reality of living somewhere can be very different to visiting, but I suppose he will have to try it in order to see how it feels. I think your point of not necessarily taking into account the second reading as I'm not sure what 11.4 might mean is very valid too.
My sense is that if he moves, it will have quite dramatic repercussions for him generally, not all of which will be pleasant (without going into personal details), and it will need a lot of adjustment and soul searching. The added pressure of our relationship and it not being long distance any more could also be pretty stressful. I think its important for me not to see this as the point at which everything will be fixed and we can waltz happily off into the sunshine together, which is tempting when you are waiting for something like this, it will bring with it a whole new set of challenges and new emotional parameters. Forewarned is forearmed, I suppose...
E
 

ginnie

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I asked what will happen with our relationship when he does [move to the same city]? 11:1,3,6 to 4.

Edge, I see that your original question was about the relationship. I agree with Trojan about beginning, middle, and end happening and being over very quickly -- indicated by first and last lines both moving in your primary hexagram.

Trojan, I said that if I saw hexagram 4 as my relating hex (in a relationship question) I'd be feeling queasy -- and that's because the hex 4 indicates that something really important is hidden from Edge at the present time. With such far-reaching plans underway, how can it be desirable that that something truly significant is currently hidden from Edge? Of course, it could also be as you posted: that something is currently hidden from the other person; maybe that his business plans will not prosper in this city.

And there is that other interpretation of hexagram 4: That this question has already been asked previously and answered. Or that Edge already knows the answer to that question (on some level).

Inexperience . . . being an ignoramus . . . needing to embrace an ignoramus . . . needing to ignore someone who just won't learn . . . being childlike . . . not attacking ignorant people but safeguarding ourselves . . . All this causes me to wonder about the dynamic of this relationship, Trojan; especially since Edge just said they are not exactly youngsters.
 

ginnie

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I think its important for me not to see this as the point at which everything will be fixed and we can waltz happily off into the sunshine together... Forewarned is forearmed, I suppose

Yup, that's what i was thinking . . .

This may not be the time when everything begins to flourish and prosper, for some unknown reason.
 
M

meng

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Inexperience . . . being an ignoramus . . . needing to embrace an ignoramus . . . needing to ignore someone who just won't learn . . . being childlike . . . not attacking ignorant people but safeguarding ourselves . . . All this causes me to wonder about the dynamic of this relationship, Trojan; especially since Edge just said they are not exactly youngsters.

Wow, that's a rather extreme version of 4.

How about simply not knowing and being open to learn and experience something, having an open mind? That's how I view 4, with the admonishment aspect coming only when a student refuses to learn, doing the same things but expecting different results. I don't see any of that here, in Edges' story or readings.

It's a situation that they don't, can't and won't know unless they try it and see. It might turn out to be a wonderful union, for all we (don't) know.
 

edge

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Thanks Ginnie and Trojan, and Meng, sorry I just realised i didn't thank you originally, just edited my mistake, your thoughts and calming influence much appreciated!!
its funny but as much as there may be something hidden from me, the basis of the relationship has always been extreme honesty, to the extent of too much information at times! I'm very aware of a whole set of circumstances which are not moveable or solvable (previous relationships, children etc and the current health difficulties), and the challenge has been whether or not to take it all on warts and all (so to speak). Full disclosure on all of this stuff was immediate and frank, and is not easy at all. I decided to go with it slowly and see what happened, and things have been working out. My instinct is often to give up or walk away when things get difficult, and 31 seems to advise against doing anything rash. Close friends and family have also advised me to wait and see where it goes (a friend actually pointed out the other day that if it works, it will be one of the most honest and realistic relationships possible). So my instinct is not to see 4 as a big terrible secret that is waiting to ambush me, but more a sense of not being able to know where this goes right now.
Either way, I think I need to calm my mind a bit...:)
 
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edge

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p.s. when I asked quite a long time ago, is this the right man for me, I got 53 unchanging, so I'm reminded not to hope anything will happen very fast or without obstruction!!!
 

ginnie

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a long and winding road . . .

So much always depends on our own frame of mind. For example, I might ask about a group and get hexagram 43 with moving line 43.5: suggesting that it's better to leave. But if I immediately change my mind and ask about how I can work it out and stay within that group, I might get 38.6: these people who look bad to me at the moment are actually my friends and allies.

Maybe all our troubles come from our not being able to make up our minds? I mean, if we could simply decide that we would indeed love everyone, come hell or high water, and treat everybody we met with great patience, then there wouldn't be any decisions to be made -- or not too many of them . . .
 

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