14.4.6.-11 How do I get out of the pit?

[scorpioontherun]

Dear all, still feeling really bad after the break up, sinking i'm afraid. therapy helps a little but i'm still in the pit. so i asked how do i get out of the pit.
the 14.6 and the 11 seems hopefull but i do not get the 14.4 whiche seems to me the real advice to achieve the rest. Can you help. thanks
Scorpio

 

[chingching]

14.4, maybe you think you should be over this by now, that you should know how to get out of the pit. Its no fault you are in the pit.

Forgive yourself

11 is where you are headed, let it wash over you when it comes

 

[lslater]

14.4 is about the ego. You may be like lots of us... having a hard time letting go because of your wounded ego. When you admit to yourself that you may not be the one for this other person- and vice versa- then you will find peace. It is hard for us as ego-driven humans to accept it when things don't work out because a. we either think that they didn't work out because something is wrong with us or b. we blame it on the other person. Neither one of these things contains the truth. The truth being that we each come into this life with a purpose- to learn and grow and find the truth of who we really are. The ego is our teacher- it will keep on bringing pain until we learn our path and who we truly are. It is when we try to be what we aren't (and get angry and dejected when that doesn't work out), that we start beating ourselves up or blaming other people. The best that anyone of us can do is not react to the pain in ways that are self or other destructive. Only then does the pain lose its power. I am going through a similar battle as well, so I know how you are feeling. I asked the oracle today what I need to sacrifice in order for true love to come into my life. Perhaps instead of dwelling on love that isn't true- you should forgive yourself for believing the lies that your ego has been telling you- which is likely that your not good enough for the person you are trying to get over and that the relationship's failure is your fault. I know this isn't easy, but its unfortunately the only way. I hope this helps- if not take it with a grain of salt. : )

 

[pocossin]

>How do i get out of the pit? I do not get the 14.4 which seems to me the real advice to achieve the rest.

Whincup:
By avoiding ostentation,
He averts harm.

Hilary:
It is not for you to dominate,
No mistake.

Bradford:
This is not one's own domain
No blame

14.4 seems to be about letting go in order to have more. Like Curious George, it is your hard grip that holds you in the pit. Grieving is a letting go.

 

[nahema]

Actually, I see the relating hexagram as often the backdrop/background to the situation. Perhaps it is indeed the future, but consider that it may be that your being in the pit is exactly where you need to be right now. That somehow (although not comfortably) it servers your evolution in ways you're not consciously aware of. This would be the flow of 11.

14 is possession in great measure. Again, no one wants to be in a pit, but for myself, I've made the most enormous leaps in terms of personal growth when things seemed at their worst. When I actually "sat" in that space and accepted the reality of whatever came up in that moment. Deep breathing helps!

Best wishes to you.

 

[lslater]

Actually, I see the relating hexagram as often the backdrop/background to the situation. Perhaps it is indeed the future, but consider that it may be that your being in the pit is exactly where you need to be right now. That somehow (although not comfortably) it servers your evolution in ways you're not consciously aware of. This would be the flow of 11.

14 is possession in great measure. Again, no one wants to be in a pit, but for myself, I've made the most enormous leaps in terms of personal growth when things seemed at their worst. When I actually "sat" in that space and accepted the reality of whatever came up in that moment. Deep breathing helps!

Best wishes to you.

I have been encountering this view frequently during my short time here. All of the other I-Ching resources I have read indicate the relating hexagram as the future of the situation... hence I-Ching being considered a tool for "divination". Where does this view come from? Very curious...

 

[Trojina]

I have been encountering this view frequently during my short time here. All of the other I-Ching resources I have read indicate the relating hexagram as the future of the situation... hence I-Ching being considered a tool for "divination". Where does this view come from? Very curious...

I don't know where it comes from exactly I only know that when you quit thinking of the relating hexagram as the future of a situation readings make a whole lot more sense.

Everyone uses what works for them and one can't really say what is a right or wrong way but I confess I've gotten to the stage where I actually feel sorry for newbies who are still reading the relating hexagram as only 'the future', it seems very misleading now.

Where did anyone get the idea the relating hexagram was just and only the future ? Is it Wilhelm ? I don't know. I did go around thinking the relating hex was the future for years and when I stopped, from reading this site...it was a great revelation and my readings made about 95% more sense to me. I felt like I had been wearing something back to front and upside down for years in thinking of it as the future.....it fitted so much better as context/relation etc

If its the backdrop it can include elements of the future of course...but I do not think it is simply 'the outcome'. However there are still people who think it is., so I can only imagine it must work for them

I guess just play around with it and see what works for you. Try seeing it as the future and only the future, then try seeing it as the whole context of the reading including past and present and see what seems most intuitively right for you. i think it can show where you are in relation to the situation

The 'divination' if you mean by that the predictive aspect can be found in the primary hexagram and lines...and to some degree also in the relating hexagram, in a holistic kind of a way. The 2 hexagrams together make a sentence....

Shame theres no sticky about different ways to see the second hexagram....as its a frequently asked question. Anyway in the end you decide how you want to interpret the second hexagram in your readings...Its a bit like how to interpret multiple moving lines. Everyone has their own way that works for them...which is good

 

[chingching]

I always think the primary hexagram is the one I draw down on paper first so its the answer to the question. The lines are warnings and advice and extra details and the relating hex is the background/ backdrop. Sometimes the fan yao's to me are like the background (or me even) speaking to the changing lines of the primary hex as though it is the question itself, and then the primary hex and its lines answer and then you can look at the relating hex (more in term of the judgement) again for clues of where this could be going etc.

There is so much you can get out of one reading this way, and (although I'm guilty of this myself) it displays how casting a lot of readings is really unnecessary.

 

[Trojina]

14.4, maybe you think you should be over this by now, that you should know how to get out of the pit. Its no fault you are in the pit.

Forgive yourself

11 is where you are headed, let it wash over you when it comes

I always think the primary hexagram is the one I draw down on paper first so its the answer to the question. The lines are warnings and advice and extra details and the relating hex is the background/ backdrop. Sometimes the fan yao's to me are like the background (or me even) speaking to the changing lines of the primary hex as though it is the question itself, and then the primary hex and its lines answer and then you can look at the relating hex (more in term of the judgement) again for clues of where this could be going etc.

There is so much you can get out of one reading this way, and (although I'm guilty of this myself) it displays how casting a lot of readings is really unnecessary.

in your first post you said you thought the relating hex, 11, was where the situation was headed


BTW the father of fan yao, Bradford, said he didn't really intend for it to feature in divination, its more of a reflection, a mirror image of the actual changing line to refer to when stuck on the meaning of the changing line...but now people use it as if was the actual answer they got.

It is amazing though how the fan yao has taken off on a life of its own in peoples readings

 

[chingching]

yeah...

again for clues of where this could be going etc.

I do all the other stuff first then see if the second hex looks like a future outcome, I just don't write my whole thought process in answers here, it takes too long and most of it isn't relevant to readers, I would bore everyone to tears.

No I use the Fan Yao as a reflection too, I'm sorry that you've thought I've meant different. Like this changing line is this, mmm but what does that mean, well if the fan yao was this coming form that then this changing lines means this , makes more sense etc. etc. It helps set up what the meaning is in relation to something else, if that makes sense.

I tend to really only focus on the fan yao when there is one changing line, but sometimes I look at it for multiple lines, if I'm really stuck.

I'm not a hard and fast rules kind of gal, and I do readings intuitively mostly. Also listening to the persons question and tone will make me reading hex's in a certain way over another.

sorry scorpionontherun

any updates of your situation?

In my first answer I felt the changing line was speaking to me the most and that led to 11, not because I was following a particular method of reading hex's, just because that was how unravelled for me. And also I felt that was all you needed to know from me, or rather that was the best words I had to offer.

 

[lslater]

Actually, reading the relating hex as the back drop DOES make more sense. I tried with several questions and I was able to read it in a new way that seemed to have more grounding- more robust in a way. Cool...

 

[lslater]

Actually, reading the relating hex as the back drop DOES make more sense. I tried with several questions and I was able to read it in a new way that seemed to have more grounding- more robust in a way. Cool...

 

[lslater]

However, I am somewhat confused now... looking at the original qustion from scorpionontherun it doesn't look as if there is any peace currently... so how could 11 be a backdrop? Is it as Chingching says... dependent on the specific question?

 

[lslater]

Maybe that the question is coming out of a desire for peace?

 

[Trojina]

However, I am somewhat confused now... looking at the original qustion from scorpionontherun it doesn't look as if there is any peace currently... so how could 11 be a backdrop? Is it as Chingching says... dependent on the specific question?

I think "peace" is a misleading name for the hexagram 11. Hilary calls it "Flow". I've often found it a difficult hexagram to understand...but its helped me to realise it doesn't mean 'peace' as in nice and peaceful and gentle and quiet !! Infact it can be quite the opposite because everythings in flow, things are moving well, the opposite of hex 12, all energies are goingin ones favour. I've heard it can be quite tumultuous...in a good way. When you are riding a big wave that taking you somewhere (hex 11) you may not feel peaceful at all.

So as a backdrop I might take it as someone is in a place of creative potential, things can happens, she can be in accord with the flow of events.

But oh dear this is the very opposite of what she says she feels, she says she feels in a pit ! I can only take in that this pit she feels in is really just the right place to be..and shes doing okay its all part of her flow. I mean its a lovely reading really

I suspect the 14.4...is the irritant. She may be looking at what others have, what others are doing. maybe comparing her single status to that of others and feeling bad...but if she stopped doing that, stopped comparing her life to others lives then really it seems to me shes in a good place (14.6)

It may not be terribly comfortable...because apparently being in the full flow of energy in hex 11 may not be comfortable...but seems to me she isn't in any pit, at least not one she can't get out of.

Maybe she has so much more at her disposal than she thinks....with both 11 and 14 well, maybe she has riches she can't see because shes looking at what others have rather than what she has ?

Maybe sometimes it is the case that even when we feel we are in a really crap place we are actually still in the most perfect creative place for us to be at that time ?


Not to be dismissive of your suffering Scorpio, I have read people getting 14.6 when they are very unhappy and it makes no sense ...but it may make sense in hindsight. If breaking up with someone triggers a huge inner wave...it can be felt as suffering but it still might be the best most creative thing to happen...

 

[scorpioontherun]

Dear all THANKS, and Trojan, did we meet?
Some days I'm in a pit, some days I dig a hole in my pit just to sink in .. and that's when I think of him, and that he is having good time with this other girl he dumped me for or when I dream of him kissing me like tonight.
But I have this new therapist a no-nonsense "here and now" "do not look at the past move forward" man and he is not helping right now but I know he will. This beakup has given me the impulse to go and find him and possibly to find in the future who I really am and if I am really lucky somebody to love and that loves me back. But I suffer like hell and I KNOW it is not going to be over tomorrow. And how to make it creative and happy instead of cumbersome and depressive? Who knows?
Thanks for your support and caring
scorpio

 

[scorpioontherun]

Of course the Yi knows so I asked how can i make it joyful and creative instead of depressing?
4.2.4-35
So I have gift to exploit but I'm a baby in this sitution , ignorant of what I have and can become so the suggestions seem to me to be: accept that you are ignorant. from wikiwing "If you have no set expectations, anything could happen. The challenge is to hold and nurture this state of not knowing, not to be in a big hurry to fill it." and then "do not oppress it or it will bring you shame" you must accept to learn. Or at least that what I think it means
Thoughts?
Thanks
Scorpio

 

[Trojina]

Of course the Yi knows so I asked how can i make it joyful and creative instead of depressing?
4.2.4-35
So I have gift to exploit but I'm a baby in this sitution , ignorant of what I have and can become so the suggestions seem to me to be: accept that you are ignorant. from wikiwing "If you have no set expectations, anything could happen. The challenge is to hold and nurture this state of not knowing, not to be in a big hurry to fill it." and then "do not oppress it or it will bring you shame" you must accept to learn. Or at least that what I think it means
Thoughts?
Thanks
Scorpio

Its all tall order to make this time fun and creative. I think its natural you will feel very low...but pain, especially of this kind can be transformative. The pain you have won't last and you will come out of it enriched IMO for afterall thats what your 14>11 reading said to me. Kahlil Gibran said in The Prophet "Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding. Even as the stone of the fruit must break, that its heart may stand in the sun, so must you know pain. And could you keep you heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy"

Don't know why i thought of that but it has echoes of hex 4 in there doesn't it....in keeping the wonder of all the states

I like your interpretation anyway. I think line 4 encourages you to take a slightly more objective view....beware of getting lost in imaginings.

You might imagine your ex having a great time with his new girl....er but actually he may not be having, you are torturing yourself with things you can't be sure of...they could be boring the pants off each other Maybe line 2 encourages a fresh approach....tearing away from these old imaginings of him and her in a state of blissfull union ( which they probably aren't anyway) towards your fresh potentials now, your future

It seems to me to be another reading that shows theres much potential there for you in one way or another (35) if you will embrace the new and the not knowing a little more (4.2.4)