15.1 & 36.1

[anemos]

I asked about a certain matter and got 36.1>15 a couple of days ago and today after discussing it with some people I asked for further advice and got 15.1 > 36.

both lines perplexes me a lot. I gather that is about setbacks and how to move along and keep your focus on the goal, to cross the great river. The visual of tarot's hermit card popped into my mind maybe because of hex 36 or because actually those line talk about a lonely journey.

I wonder if you could share any thoughts, experiences in regards to those lines. Everything you could offer would be much appreciated.

thanks in advance,
maria

 

[zhan1]

Hi anemos,

36.1 depicts a rather unpleasant situation which may have developed for reasons that aren’t entirely clear, but fortunately it’s only temporary. I can recall an experience in which the host of a reception I was attending believed that I had done something improper and she was quite angry with me, although she did not explain what the problem was. After some time passed she realized her mistake and she made an effort to mend our friendship.

Very often in the Yijing food and eating are associated with gathering together and socializing. The text states “three days, no food”, so this could possibly mean that for a time there won’t be any friendly get-togethers, but eventually this could change.

 

[anemos]

Hi anemos,


Very often in the Yijing food and eating are associated with gathering together and socializing. The text states “three days, no food”, so this could possibly mean that for a time there won’t be any friendly get-togethers, but eventually this could change.

thanks Zhan for your response.

Bradford says : he is "dragging his winds" in order to avoid attention altogether or to become invisible, he is not eating in order to avoid betraying his predator's appetite. maybe those in power are the predator? not sure about how to relate it here.

in 15.1 also , staying invisible is mentioned.

this is mostly what confuses me and still haven't figure it out. Wilhelm says: " Never the less he has a fixed goal to strive for even though the people with whom he lives do
not understand him and speak ill of him." maybe its a warning that i'm sharing things with people I shouldn't but not sure whose are those people are. And its important to understand it, because there is that person that the delay of a certain matter is because of his schedule and was thinking to talk with him to find a way to reduce the waiting time but after those reading I'm not sure if its wise to do it.

 

[charly]

I asked about a certain matter and got 36.1>15 a couple of days ago and today after discussing it with some people I asked for further advice and got 15.1 > 36...

Hi, Maria:

Given that we know nothing about the matter asked, I believe highly private, I will give a simple reading of the received chinese text, but first, H.36 is, of course, a good omen, although, nothing is perfect, difficult.

H.36:

明 ming2: clear / bright / luminous // to understand /
夷 yi2: a barbarian / uncultured / wild // wound /
利 li4: advantage / benefit / profit / sharp / profitable /
艱 jian1: difficult / hard / hardship /
貞 zhen1: chaste / perseverance // divination / omen /

UNDERSTANDING UNCULTURED.
Wild understanding, maybe common sense.

PROFITABLE HARD OMEN.
Previsibly hard, but profitable.
​

36.1:

明 ming2: clear / bright / luminous // to understand /
夷 yi2: a barbarian / uncultured / wild // wound / (1)
于 yu2: at / to
飛 fei1: to fly / flight /

垂 chui2: to hang down / droop / bend down / hand down // nearly / almost / to approach /
其 qi2: his / her / its / theirs / that / such / it /
翼 yi4: wing /

君 jun1: monarch / lord / gentleman / ruler /
子 zi3: child / son / seed / egg / small thing // count /earl / (2)
于 yu2: at / to /
行 xing2: wandering / travelling / journeying /

三 san1: three / 3 /
日 ri4: day / sun / date / day of the month /
不 bu4: un (negative prefix) / not / no /
食 shi2: animal feed / eat / food // metaphor of sexual activity / (3)

有 you3: to have / there is / there are / to exist / to be /
攸 you1: distant, far / adverbial prefix /
往 wang3: to go (in a direction) // towards /

主 zhu3: to own / to host // master / lord / leader // host / hostess / (4)
人 ren2: man / person / people /
有 you3: to have / there is / there are / to exist / to be /
言 yan2: to speak / to say / talk / word /

BRIGHT WILD AT FLYING BENDS ITS WINGS
The bright and wild bird, when flying, bends down its wings
Male or female subject, but a natural, uncultured one has behaviors not always understandable for the person who sees it, but practical.
Bending down its wing, the bird takes height.

NOBLE YOUNG AT JOURNEYING THREE DAYS DOESN´T EAT
Cultured people, cultured at a certain degree, maybe need a little abstinence before facing an adventure. A little preparation. They don´t eat before a party.

HAVE FAR TO GO LEADING PEOPLE HAVE WORD.
If having to go in a long trip far from home, the leaders have the word.
The character for zhu, master, leader depicts a candle, then, guidance, leadership.
Always light, understanding and experience guiding our behavior.
​

Contexts cam make the reading change, but in general, for little affairs, like kids picnics, a little sacrifice can be enough. For important affairs, long travellings, we must hear the voice of experienced or skilled people for guidance.

But if we are natural like birds, our own inner drives can be reliable enough, sometime we may trust in our own skills for the flight or we try to do the best possible.

If we are no more kids, if we haven´t teachers at hand and the opportunity passes bright like a flash and fast like an arrow, if not now, when?


All the best,


Charly

__________________________
(1) Maybe here, as Rutt thinks, MING YI is a BIRD, it FLIES.
(2) Of course, here is JUNZI, two-syllabe word, NOBLE SON, NOBLE YOUNG, GENTLEMEN, the superior man of Wilhelm / Baynes.
(3) not necessarily of oral nature.
(4) Not always gendered, it might be MISTRESS instead of MASTER, LADY instead of LORD and so.

Ch.

 

[anemos]

thank you Charly for your detailed explanation

its about a delay which alter some plans and my impression is those lines talk about "keep going". But I don't understand well why Wilhelm says "Without rest, he must hurry along, with no permanent abiding place" which makes me wonder whether waiting for a reschedule of the date is recommended or looking elsewhere . Why the hurry ?

also in 15.1 I see the same thing "On the other hand, the task is easy if it is attended to quickly and simply"

 

[charly]

... I don't understand well why Wilhelm says "Without rest, he must hurry along, with no permanent abiding place" which makes me wonder whether waiting for a reschedule of the date is recommended or looking elsewhere . Why the hurry ?

Hi, Maria:

If you go to trust in what Wilhelm says, you always migh do both things, to wait and to look elsewhere.

Of course, the hurry is because things will turn at any time.

You can wait for a reschedule or can ask for it. And always have a "B" plan.


And 15.1 says:

謙 qian1: modest / humble / retiring / self-effacing
謙 qian1: modest / humble / retiring / self-effacing
君子 jun1zi3: noble young / gentlemen / "superior man" of Baynes

用 yong4: to use / to apply /
涉 she4: to cross / wade // involve / concern / to experience /
大 da4: big / large / great /
川 chuan1: flow / river / creek /

吉 ji2: lucky / fortunate /


In chinese duplicated characters not always have the same sense that when single.
謙 qian1 is a compound of 言 WORDS + 兼 UNITE. Maybe the original text had the earlier character without the radical WORDS.

兼 jian1: to unite in one / to join / to connect / to annex // and / also / together with / both /


If we assume that the initial 謙謙 qian1qian1 was written 兼兼 jian1jian1, the translation might be:

JOIN, JOIN, NOBLE YOUNG,
Hurry, hurry, Little Noble

DO CROSS THE BIG STREAM.
Crossing the big river

LUCKY!
will be fortunate.

​

Also instead of JOIN, JOIN, it could be BOTH, BOTH, NOBLE YOUNG. Say, do both things or have a "B" plan.

Things are not what they seem, to be MODEST means NOT TO BE ARROGANT, it doesn´t mean to stay quiet.

Modernists translators believe that QIAN / JIAN refers to a rodent, a rat or a hamster. For my own use I have H.15 = MODEST RODENT. Rodents gnaw without rest. Little but brave. And adventurous.


All the best,


Charly


P.D.:

I always relate H.15 MODESTY with Vittorio Gassman from whom I foud that quote:

(1963) il personaggio - VITTORIO GASSMAN

Qualcuno, per queste mie interpretazioni, è arrivato persino a definirmi un grande comico. Preferisco sentirmi dire che sono un attore modesto, ma completo ...

From:
http://memoryssubmarine.blogspot.com/2010/11/1963-il-personaggio-vittorio-gassman.html

______________
Google translates: Someone, for these my interpretations, even went so far to call myself a great comedian. I prefer to hear that I am an actor modest, but complete ...

Ch.

 

[anemos]

its pretty vague, isn't it ?

he has reschedule it for the coming month but with a big questionmark next to the date which means probably i'll have to wait another two months. I'm running out of stamina, so maybe Yi points to a plan B which its the last thing I need now and in many terms is not the best solution. I can't think of another way to connect the "quickly and simply" in this situation.

I appreciate a lot you help on this Charly

Many thanks,
Maria

 

[charly]

its pretty vague, isn't it ?

he has reschedule it for the coming month but with a big questionmark next to the date which means probably i'll have to wait another two months. I'm running out of stamina, so maybe Yi points to a plan B which its the last thing I need now and in many terms is not the best solution. I can't think of another way to connect the "quickly and simply" in this situation.

I appreciate a lot you help on this Charly

Many thanks,
Maria

Dear Maria:

Put also yourself a big question mark in your own schedule. You have to wait. OK.

But what will you do meanwhile?

• You can erode your nails thinking and thinking, despairing instead of waiting.
• Or can use your time otherwise. Maybe tracing a "B" plan.
• Or doing something quite different.

I believe that the first is not a good idea.

All the best,


Charly

 

[anemos]

• You can erode your nails thinking and thinking, despairing instead of waiting.
  

• 
  
  ...and chewing gum, hahaha.
  
  I think both lines focus on the goal ie. crossing the river, so maybe Plan B will work.
  I see it clearer now.
  
  thanks again

 

[charly]

Hi, Maria:

If you go to trust in what Wilhelm says, you always migh do both things, to wait and to look elsewhere.

Of course, the hurry is because things will turn at any time.

You can wait for a reschedule or can ask for it. And always have a "B" plan.


And 15.1 says:

謙 qian1: modest / humble / retiring / self-effacing
謙 qian1: modest / humble / retiring / self-effacing
君子 jun1zi3: noble young / gentlemen / "superior man" of Baynes

用 yong4: to use / to apply /
涉 she4: to cross / wade // involve / concern / to experience /
大 da4: big / large / great /
川 chuan1: flow / river / creek /

吉 ji2: lucky / fortunate /


In chinese duplicated characters not always have the same sense that when single.
謙 qian1 is a compound of 言 WORDS + 兼 UNITE. Maybe the original text had the earlier character without the radical WORDS.

兼 jian1: to unite in one / to join / to connect / to annex // and / also / together with / both /


If we assume that the initial 謙謙 qian1qian1 was written 兼兼 jian1jian1, the translation might be:

JOIN, JOIN, NOBLE YOUNG,
Hurry, hurry, Little Noble

DO CROSS THE BIG STREAM.
Crossing the big river

LUCKY!
will be fortunate.

​

Also instead of JOIN, JOIN, it could be BOTH, BOTH, NOBLE YOUNG. Say, do both things or have a "B" plan.

Things are not what they seem, to be MODEST means NOT TO BE ARROGANT, it doesn´t mean to stay quiet.

Modernists translators believe that QIAN / JIAN refers to a rodent, a rat or a hamster. For my own use I have H.15 = MODEST RODENT. Rodents gnaw without rest. Little but brave. And adventurous.


All the best,


Charly


P.D.:

I always relate H.15 MODESTY with Vittorio Gassman from whom I foud that quote:
(1963) il personaggio - VITTORIO GASSMAN

Qualcuno, per queste mie interpretazioni, è arrivato persino a definirmi un grande comico. Preferisco sentirmi dire che sono un attore modesto, ma completo ...


Ch.

Hi All:

Time passed and I´ve changed from H.15 MODESTY to H.15 MODESTLY.
I believe that H.15 speaks abour BEHAVING MODESTLY and, at the same time, PROMOTING UNION.

That happened spotting some intertextual keys inside H.15 and scattered into many other hexagrams of the Zhouyi that I will post elsewhere. But, what about the connection with Vittorio Modestamente Gassman? There is an old story maybe good to talk about here and now.

« ...
OPINIÓN
MODESTAMENTE
by José Pablo Feinmann

Pagina12, Buenos Aires, 30/6/2000

Página/12

MODESTLY

The guy is dancing with a beautiful woman, one of those heart-stopping italian women who taught us to differentiate between the ardor and opulence of Latin Women and the Max design of Hollywood Stars. The guy hugs her shamelessly, she is happy, and suddenly he bites her a ear. She gives a little howl and he smiles, looks at her and says, «Modestly».

The film had been directed by Dino Risi and was called «Il Sorpasso». The guy was Vittorio Gassman, whom all argentines envied because he lacked nothing: looks, talent, self-confidence. He modestly became famous. There was no one who did not dream of biting a girl's ear saying «modestly». There was no one who did not dream of being Gassman.

It had dazzled me before. Before, I had already dreamed of being a Gassman, but in a different way. The film was called «Rhapsody» and Gassman, who played the violinist Paul Bronté, fell in love with Elizabeth Taylor. I was very young and seeing that eminent violinist, overflowing with talent who, moreover, had the look of Gassman and had Taylor at his feet blew my mind.

Gassman always disdained «Rhapsody» (he disdained it since Shakespeare, from where, in truth, he disdained everything that made the cinema), but «Rhapsody» was unforgettable, the perfection of kitsch, the Tchaikovsky violin concerto by David Oistrach and Rachmaninov No. 2 (what else if not?) by Claudio Arrau, and Taylor with red lips and green eyes, in love with Gassman to the point of perdition.

In the end she stayed with the pianist, but one knew that the guy who had really shaken her up, who had modestly driven her crazy, had been the violinist, that is, Paul Bronté, that is, Vittorio Gassman.

It is part of our lives and our dreams, as are the greats of cinema. He made the «Big Deal on Madonna Street», «The Great War» (with Sordi) and «Women's Perfume». He made another endearing film for argentines, for all those who forgot (I don't want to put “betrayed”) their dreams and know that nothing will replace them. Yes, it is. We had loved each other so much. Gassman is the most argentine of the italian actors.

A little because, like all italians, he had a lot of argentine. And another because we, as good argentines, are almost italian and above all, as good argentines too, we dream of the impossible look, with the excessive talent, with the winning and somewhat cynical smile of Vittorio Gassman. If he, who was him, has died, what can expect we who have barely tried to plagiarize him?

... »​

[Translated with the help of Google
Vittorio Gassman passed away 19/6/2000,
José Pablo Feinmann passed away 17/12/2021,
both icons of a time almost forgotten.]

With my best memory,

Charly

 

[my_key]

Hi Charly
It's been a while. Welcome back.

I had put some posts up a little while ago about Hex 15 and had settled towards the name of Authenticity. However, I do like your thinking "about BEHAVING MODESTLY and, at the same time, PROMOTING UNION."

'Modestly' definitions:

• in an unassuming manner; without vanity or arrogance.
• to a relatively moderate or small degree.
• to a relatively moderate or small degree.
• so as to avoid impropriety or indecency.

All of these come well within the boundaries of best practice for this hexagram, which according to Huang are "The superior person decreases what is excessive and increases what is scarce. He weighs things and makes them balance." This translation of The Image clearly points towards aspects of behaviour that are equally promoting union.

I particularly like the phrase in your story translation "He modestly became famous." and the actions of others who chasing something other than being authentic to themselves; other than embracing their own unique ways of behaving modestly ended up falling short - "what can expect we who have barely tried to plagiarize him".

I look forward to reading the posts you intend to make on the intertextual keys inside H.15 and the links you have found scattered into many other hexagrams of the Zhouyi.

Be well.

 

[charly]

...
I had put some posts up a little while ago about Hex 15 and had settled towards the name of Authenticity. However, I do like your thinking "about BEHAVING MODESTLY and, at the same time, PROMOTING UNION."

Hi Mike:

Of course, the double-sided idea of H.15's main meanings comes from an idiographic analysis of its label: 謙, qian1: modest / humble which is a compound of the radical 言 , yan2: words / speech / to say / to talk and the character 兼, jian1: to unite / to commect / both / sumultaneous.

兼, jian1, attested since Bronze script, is the protograph of 謙, qian1, only attested since the Small Seal script. Maybe in the earlier versions of the Zhouyi H.15 was 兼, jian1 with many of the meanings retained by later compounds with different keys, created for disambiguation purposes.

兼, jian1, depicts a HAND keeping TWO STALKS WITH GRAIN AT THE SAME TIME and, I believe, evoking the image of STICKING TOGETHER TO STRENGHTEN THE WHOLE.

Maybe the same HAND appears in the chracter 妻, qi1: wife / with another tone: 妻, qi4: to marry off a daughter but that's another story. (1)

I look forward to reading the posts you intend to make on the intertextual keys inside H.15 and the links you have found scattered into many other hexagrams of the Zhouyi.

SOON I will post all the keys I've found, centering in contextualizing the only line that lacks of the hexgram tag.

All the best

Charly
_________________________
(1) Maybe jian supports another meaning: MARRYING.
Maybe the oppressing meaning respond to the image of «King takes Queen». H.44 in its earlier sense (Pearson, LiSe, &) would advice not to be abusive with Ladies. in the sense of the commentarial tradition beware of them. Seen in the context of DYNASTIC MARRIAGES or at the light of CHILDBIRTH MYTHS of DYNASTY FOUNDERS or CULTURAL HEROES, what can think moden people about Princesses going to meet her destiny in the wilds, getting pregnant of a dragon, by stepping on a footprint or by swallowing an egg? Some stories hard to believe!
Ch.

 

[charly]

...
SOON I will post all the keys I've found, centering in contextualizing the only line that lacks of the hexgram tag.
....

Hi Mike:

Must recognize, I cann't say how SOON it will be.

Meanwhile as an approach to the first KEY, I post here a quote from Sarah Allan; "The Shape of the Turtle", telling who was the EASTERN NEIGHBOR


Source: page 3. Available view in Google Books.

(To be continued)

All the best,

Charly

 

[charly]

Hi Mike:
SOON I will post all the keys I've found, centering in contextualizing the only line that lacks of the hexgram tag.
....
Must recognize, I cann't say how SOON it will be.

Meanwhile as an approach to the first KEY, I post here a quote from Sarah Allan; "The Shape of the Turtle", telling who was the EASTERN NEIGHBOR
...

(continuation)
The only line lacking the hexagram tag is:

15.5
不富以其鄰利
bu4 fu4 yi3 qi2 lin2 li4
NOT RICH ACCORDINGLY ONE’S NEIGHBORS PROFITABLE
We must be not rich accordingly with our neghbors: it will be profitable.

用侵伐旡不利
yong4 qin1 fa1 wu2 bu4 li4
INVADE ATTACK NO UNPROFITABLE.
Or else, applying invasive attack sould be no unprofitable.
​

What are the meanings of 鄰, lin2, NEIGHBOR in another hexagrams of the Zhouyi?
See 63.5:

東鄰殺牛
dng1 lin2 sha1 niu2
EASTERN NEIGBOR SLAUGHTERING CATTLE
Eastern Neighbor’s slaugtering cattle …

不如西鄰之禴祭實受其福
bu4 ru2 xi1 lin2 zhi1 yue4 ji4 shi2 shou4 qi2 fu2
NOT LIKE WESTERN NEIGHBOR FLUTE SACRIFICE REALLY BEAR ITS HAPPINESS
Is not as good as Western Neighbor's 禴 YUE sacrifice(1) that truly bears its own reward.

​

Of course, the Eastern Neighjbor is the SHANG/YIN State, The Western Neighbor is the ZHOU State.
____________________________
(1) The 禴, yue4, sacrifice was first performed by Wen Wang, the cultured King of Zhou (See Maria Khayutina). The carácter is a compound of radical SACRED and FLUTE with connotations of MUSIC, DANCE, JOY, pointing to the Zhou ideology based into a PEDAGOGY OF TOLERANCE, LOVE and LIFE opposed to the PEDAGOGY OF CRUELTY, HATE and DEATH applied by the SHANG

All the best,

Charly

​

 

[charly]

Of course, the Eastern Neighjbor is the SHANG/YIN State, The Western Neighbor is the ZHOU State.
____________________________
(1) The 禴, yue4, sacrifice was first performed by Wen Wang, the cultured King of Zhou (See Maria Khayutina). The character is a compound of radical SACRED and FLUTE with connotations of MUSIC, DANCE, JOY, pointing to the Zhou ideology based into a PEDAGOGY OF TOLERANCE, LOVE and LIFE opposed to the PEDAGOGY OF CRUELTY, HATE and DEATH applied by the SHANG
...

(Continuation)
There is another line in H.15, Modestly Promoting Union, tha adds accuracy to the sort of Neihbor to whom is dviceable or even fated to INVADE AND ATTACK (1):

15.6
鳴謙
ming2 qian1
CALLING «MODESTLY_PROMOTING_UNION»
A bird is calling to «Modestly Promoting Union»

利用行師征邑國
li4 yong4 xing2 shi1 zheng1 yi4 guo2
PROFITABLE USING TO_MOVE TROOPS TO_ATTACK CITY COUNTRY
It is profitaable if using to nove troops and attack the Capital Citi. (2)
​

____________________________________
(1) 15.5 speaks of a war of occupation instead of a war of anihilation.

(2)邑國, yi4 guo2, can be read as CITY AND COUNTRY or as CAPITAL CITI , Maybe an allusion to the most important towns of the Shang Country with its sourronding walls with human sacrifices buried in the foundatioss for guarding the building stability. Be said that the first ZHOUS saw worse the drunkenness of the last bad Shang King than the Shang´s bloody sacrifices. But were in fact more beneolent with the defeated people.

(to be continued)

All the best,

Charly

 

[charly]

(Continuation)
There is another line in H.15, Modestly Promoting Union, tha adds accuracy to the sort of Neihbor to whom is dviceable or even fated to INVADE AND ATTACK (1):

15.6
鳴謙
ming2 qian1
CALLING «MODESTLY_PROMOTING_UNION»
A bird is calling to «Modestly Promoting Union»

利用行師征邑國
li4 yong4 xing2 shi1 zheng1 yi4 guo2
PROFITABLE USING TO_MOVE TROOPS TO_ATTACK CITY COUNTRY
It is profitaable if using to nove troops and attack the Capital Citi. (2)
​

____________________________________
(1) 15.5 speaks of a war of occupation instead of a war of anihilation.

(2)邑國, yi4 guo2, can be read as CITY AND COUNTRY or as CAPITAL CITI , Maybe an allusion to the most important towns of the Shang Country with its sourronding walls with human sacrifices buried in the foundatioss for guarding the building stability. Be said that the first ZHOUS saw worse the drunkenness of the last bad Shang King than the Shang´s bloody sacrifices. But were in fact more beneolent with the defeated people.

(to be continued)

All the best,

Charly

Hi Mike:

Must recognize, I cann't say how SOON it will be.

Meanwhile as an approach to the first KEY, I post here a quote from Sarah Allan; "The Shape of the Turtle", telling who was the EASTERN NEIGHBOR

View attachment 4928
Source: page 3. Available view in Google Books.

(To be continued)

All the best,

Charly

Soon I will post quotes about how did the Shang make WAR and how they were fated to be like they were.
I will begin with Keekok Lee.

Charly

 

[charly]

Soon I will post quotes about how did the Shang make WAR and how they were fated to be like they were.
I will begin with Keekok Lee.

Charly

Keekok Lee; Warp and Weft - Chinese Language and Culture.
Eloquent Books, New York 2008.
(Available parcial preview in Google Books)






(To be continued)

Charly

 

[charly]

Keekok Lee; Warp and Weft - Chinese Language and Culture.
Eloquent Books, New York 2008.
(Available parcial preview in Google Books)
(

(Continuation)






Page 179 begins with SHANG but from the previuos page one unaderstan thaT is speaking of the ZHOU.

May you enjoy it.

Charly
______________________


Keekok Lee is a graduate in philosophy of the University of Singapore, the University of Oxford and the University of Manchester. She taught briefly at the University of Singapore before joining the University of Manchester where she remained until she took early retirement in 1999. Since then she has continued to be active in research and publication, affiliated initially to the University of Lancaster, and latterly to the University of Manchester as Honorary Research Professor/ Fellow (Faculty of Humanities).
Source: Personal Page Keekok Lee
Ch.

 

[charly]

As soon as posible more about why the Shangs were like thy were:

◄Later generations certainly associated the Shang with ritual murder.

The philosopher Mozi (c. 480–390 BCE)was clearly revolted by the elaborate funerals of a Shang aristocrat: «As for the men who are sacrificed in order to follow him, if he should be a [king], they will be counted in hundreds or tens. If he is a great officer or a baron, they will be counted in tens or units.»

Shang rituals were violent because martial aggression was essential to the state. And even though the kings implored Di for help in their wars, in reality they owed their success to their military skills and bronze weapons. ►

Source:
Karen Armstrong: Fields of Blood - Religion and the History of Violence.
Afred A. Knopf, New York - Toronto, 2014

Charly