15.4.5 >31

[maremaria]

Hi all,


Yesterday he told me that his has a very serious health problem. I was shocked by the news and didn’t ask a lot of details, will discuss it though the coming days. What I know is that some doctors proposed immediate surgery but they can’t promise that will solve the problem or more important if it cause other problems because of the nature of the problem. Some others proposed medicine for the time being because of the great risk of the surgery.

The only question I could ask Yi was “what I need to know about his situation”, as a starting point to think and do what needs to be done from my side. I’m shocked and numbness has frozen me.

The answer I got was 15.4.5 > 31.

I wonder what you see in that reading. I ‘ld appreciate anything you can offer.

Thanks in advance,
Maria

 

[ginnie]

I'm really sorry to hear he's ill, Maremaria. When you got H31, I believe that means you 'feel for him.'

If you ask people who work in hospitals, they'll often say that the friends, relatives, and family members often appear to be suffering more than the patients themselves. This is undoubtedly true!

I see that he's strong and in a good position to make progress. He might need to take what is called a 'pro-active approach' and not let anything connected with his health or the treatment just drift along.

When it comes right down to it, we ourselves are responsible for getting better and nobody can do that for us. Every chance you get, you might encourage him to think this way and ask himself what he might be doing to get well again.

 

[maremaria]

Thank you Ginnie for your response. I see why you see 31 as "feel for him".

I was looking at both hex and saw a common theme , unity team-words etc. Still don't know to which question the answer refer but looking for all the options.

Thanks again,
Maria

 

[ginnie]

I often get hexagram 31 when I am emotionally responsive to someone and that means that I'm sensitive to their plight, their situation. In my experience, it doesn't have to mean an actual lover or "wooing" situation. I can experience hexagram 31, emotional responsiveness, with anybody.

It's also important not to get dragged down by someone else's illness, because you are not that other person.

While encouraging him, better make sure to do things to keep up your own spirits, too!!!

 

[jesed]

Hi Maria

May I ask you the time when you asked that question; and if the condition is recent or has been there for some time before?

best wishes

 

[tigerintheboat]

Integrity and Mutual Influence

Yesterday he told me that his has a very serious health problem. What I know is that some doctors proposed immediate surgery but they can’t promise that will solve the problem or more important if it cause other problems because of the nature of the problem. Some others proposed medicine for the time being because of the great risk of the surgery.

The only question I could ask Yi was “what I need to know about his situation”, as a starting point to think and do what needs to be done from my side.

The answer I got was 15.4.5 > 31.

Hexagram 15, from the Oracle: "Noble one completes it – special qualities may be required to meet the challenge of this one. Noble one has integrity, is at one with himself and with reality, knows and doesn’t forget what is needed. Hence he is not distracted from the task at hand by either excess or lack of confidence. (Excess would lead to trying to do it all yourself – or assuming it would do itself for you; lack to giving up or waiting for someone else to tell you what to do.)"

I would assume here they are talking about "him", that he will need the qualities of the noble one to meet this challenge. He can give you your proper role in this, but you can't carry him through the experience.


What you need to know: Line 4, "Demonstrating, giving clear signs, making it explicit through action." You can make your feelings and caring explicit, even though you are not carrying him.

Line 5: Bradford suggest an idea of "integrity in struggle." Don't try to look good or stay cool, if he doesn't help you, you are entitled to get what you need, however you have to.

H31, Mutual Influence; You position is that of an Influencer, as it is not your illness. Still you can support (Line 4) and take what you need in any way necessary (Line 5)

Tiger

 

[maremaria]

Hi Maria

May I ask you the time when you asked that question; and if the condition is recent or has been there for some time before?

best wishes

Hi Jesed,

I don't have the exact time but it was on Thuesday around 13:00-14:00.
The condition must be there for some time . He find out last June. For his own reason he did not reveal it immentiately.

Hope that helps.

Maria

 

[maremaria]

Hexagram 15, from the Oracle: "Noble one completes it – special qualities may be required to meet the challenge of this one. Noble one has integrity, is at one with himself and with reality, knows and doesn’t forget what is needed. Hence he is not distracted from the task at hand by either excess or lack of confidence. (Excess would lead to trying to do it all yourself – or assuming it would do itself for you; lack to giving up or waiting for someone else to tell you what to do.)"

I would assume here they are talking about "him", that he will need the qualities of the noble one to meet this challenge. He can give you your proper role in this, but you can't carry him through the experience.


What you need to know: Line 4, "Demonstrating, giving clear signs, making it explicit through action." You can make your feelings and caring explicit, even though you are not carrying him.

Line 5: Bradford suggest an idea of "integrity in struggle." Don't try to look good or stay cool, if he doesn't help you, you are entitled to get what you need, however you have to.

H31, Mutual Influence; You position is that of an Influencer, as it is not your illness. Still you can support (Line 4) and take what you need in any way necessary (Line 5)

Tiger

Tiger,

(I lost two times my reply to your post )

I think there are points that i totally agree with. My impression that there is also another person at that reading , the one that should be influenced and i can see it in your comments too.

Thank you for your help

Maria

 

[maremaria]

I found the following at the archives.( sorry didn't note the link)

Its something Bradford says and this is where The other person I'm talking about appears there and the way to approach him too.

Sometimes the Yi authors used a couple of the line texts to clear up common misunderstandings about the general Gua theme. If you undestand Gua 15 in the usual sense of "Modesty" you get it way wrong. I translate it Authenticity instead, being uncompromisingly realistic, not falsely self-effacing.
In Line 5 it's saying that Qian is capable of firm and decisive action against an obstacle or a wrong.
Historically in old China there was an unwritten rule that in times of crisis you dropped all animosity and hostility and helped out your neighboring countries. This line refers to an incident where the neighbors stood by and watched the suffering, probably to improve its own position or in retribution. This established them as less than humane and worthy of disciplinary action or enforced change. I don't know if it was a particular incident. Maybe Freeman might want to suggest one.
But anyway, "Modestry" is allowed to make assumptions and take decisive action to turn things around to its own advantage.

 

[jesed]

Hi Maria

I don't have the exact time but it was on Thuesday around 13:00-14:00.
The condition must be there for some time . He find out last June. For his own reason he did not reveal it immentiately.

Is there any economical dificulty for the treatment? The money aspect is hidden, and the subject line (your friend) is active to seek/produce it. In any case, he may need to spend quite some money. And maybe is in that field where you can help

Seems like the illness is strong and active, even agressive, but also your friend is strong (is he young?).

Seems like he will be ok at the end, and surgery really could help him.

Best wishes

 

[maremaria]

Hi Maria



Is there any economical dificulty for the treatment? The money aspect is hidden, and the subject line (your friend) is active to seek/produce it. In any case, he may need to spend quite some money. And maybe is in that field where you can help

Seems like the illness is strong and active, even agressive, but also your friend is strong (is he young?).

Seems like he will be ok at the end, and surgery really could help him.

Best wishes

Jesed, you are absolutely correct about the money aspect. This is where I have already take some actions and try to persuade someone to provide the means and support him. I’ll know the decision about that probably on Monday I was looking yesterday to see the line with your method and line 5 is about the period between (aprx) 27 Dec and February 2 the day that we suppose to have an answer.
We will see .

Jesed , thank you very much.

Maria

 

[jesed]

Hi Maria

Just to be clear; this time I haven't used the text-based method; but the najia method.

BTW, with the text-based method, you are right, line 5 is active now. I would say it is active until February 7th, 2009.


Now, this text has been translated in so diferent and contradict ways!!!:
a) For some, it is a rich man who doesn't presume his wealth when dealing with others (Wilhelm for instance)
b) For others, it is a poor man (or, at least someone in economic need) who seeks the help of others in order to start his undertaking (Villà; wich is in mi opinion, the best translation. This is the one I use everytime. But also Ritsema-Karcher gives this meaning)
c) For others, is only the omen that he won't get any enrichment from others (Bradford, for instance)
d) And even more... some says that poverty will be the result (Richter)

In this case, I'm with the option "b" for two reasons:
1.- Because the effect of line 15.5 (what Bradford calls fan yao) can be found in 39.5: in the middle of obstacles (economic need), companion appears (the neighbors come to help)
2.- Because option "b" is the one that makes both text-based and najia systems be in accord: the seek for economic help.

 

[maremaria]

Now, this text has been translated in so diferent and contradict ways!!!:
.

lol, just this one and a couple of others too.

Seriously, thanks for the detail explanations! Its very helpful. Especialy because I can see when you base your comments

thanks

 

[jesed]

lol, just this one and a couple of others too.

 

[jesed]

Hi Maria

I hope you receive good news between Feb 4th and 7th.

Best wishes

 

[maremaria]

'keeping my fingers crossed.....

Thanks for everything Jesed.

 

[maremaria]

I hope you receive good news between Feb 4th and 7th.

Feedback : Still work in progress but the news got during that period aren't bad at all

Thank you
:bows:

 

[jesed]

Hi Maria

Thanks for the feedback
In najia, there is one problematic topic: the "void" element. There are contradicting rules to decide if one earthly branch is "void" or not. If it is void, it can't produce effect for some time (but it will, latter). This feedback helps me a lot with practical experience. Thanks again

 

[gato]

Jessed, can you please recommend some books or links to help me understand najia system ? it's a big mystery right now .